What is the preferred educational level this forum should allow?

John Baker

John Baker

Final Approach
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This is an issue I have thought about more than a few times in the past. Yesterday, on this forum, I was dumped on for my lack of education. The most formal education I received was my completing the ninth grade at a public school.

I received a high school GED in the military.

So...should people who lack written communication skills, refrain from posting their thoughts on public forums such as this one. Are these forums intended to be more for the educated elite among us, rather than the Dumbo buffoons, much like myself?

Apparently I express myself at a sixth grade level. Is this something that I should be ashamed of? Should I refrain from risking personal humiliation or perhaps offending the more educated readers of this forum?

I am being serious here. Are you personally offended by having to struggle through the written ramblings of the uneducated?

Should I back off? Should I leave such things to my educated betters?

-John
 
Doesn't bother me at all John.

I have had employees that couldn't tie their own shoes. All of which had college educations with an alphabet of information technology certifications etc.

I'm uneducated by today's standards as well. I did graduate from the school of hard knocks and am working on my doctoral there.
 
Some of the dumbest people I have ever met, had college degrees and some of the smartest had no education to speak of, at all.
The densest person I ever met claims to be a lawyer and thinks he is the biggest genius in the history of the world. I have no proof that he is a lawyer, he just claims to be one.
That people attack others for shallow reasons, is no reason to knuckle under to their ignorance.
 
pbramlett said:
I'm uneducated by today's standards as well. I did graduate from the school of hard knocks and am working on my doctoral there.
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The grading curve in that school is considerably steeper than in most.
 
I think it's more maturity level than education.

What does "educated" mean anyway? I went to college (although it took me 6 years to get a 4 year degree, but that's another story), I got the sheepskin and I work in my field. So, I know a thing or two about computers...wooo. When it comes to planes, I'm a 25 hour pilot. I'm not educated in that respect at all.

People who look down on others because they never finished school, or never went on to higher education are being immature, selfish and short sited.
 
John,

Having read a bunch of your posts, I can only say... duh, what? You seem to be able to communicate just fine; as well as most people who post here, and better than some. There will be elitist jackasses wherever you go, you should know that.

I work with a lot of people who have the benefit of an advanced education. Some still cannot communicate effectively. Some can, but still can't think effectively. I just muddle through with my 70s vintage high school education.
 
We referred to 5th grade as "my senior year."
 
My late uncle was likely the most "educated" person that I've ever known. Rhodes Scholar, Masters from Oxford, tenured Professor of English Literature - there's an endowment established in his name at the university where he rec'd his undergrad and PHD. His life was a horrorshow. Taught me a lot about education vs. knowledge.

I went back and read the thread in question. Grammar nitpicking is the next to last desparate tactic by someone losing an argument on the internet. Ususally comes right before the application of Godwin's Rule.

Lighten up. Shake it off. Life's too short. :D
My $.02
 
I think you're ok John. I'm a 16 year old high school dropout with no formal education. I did finally get my GED in my 20s but not because I needed it or because it mattered. Scored in like the 99th percentile with no effort.

I pretty much failed all of 9th grade, not sure how I made it to 10th, and I was failing all of 10th when I quit in the first quarter of that year. I never put any effort into school - it just didn't interest me.
 
12 years of public school with a high school diploma and I probably had a 9th grade education when I graduated (1973). With the help of a few really smart people, I have managed to eke out a decent living in professions where higher (and sometimes much higher) educational credentials were the norm, if not required. Almost everything I have learned in life that meant a thing I learned after the Federally mandated bus 'em across town for racial equality, but don't teach 'em nuthin high school system of Macon, Georgia, where cutting classes would get you suspended and the draft board notified that you were AWOL from school.
I get along fine and better than a lot of my educational superiors. I have the respect of a lot of my peers not because of what I was taught, but because of what I have accomplished (and some would say overcome) despite my poor choice not to continue my education beyond a semester or two of engineering school in which I was trying to diagram sentences in English 101, a skill I have yet to master, much less need in real life.
Your posts are great and I have no problem understanding your command of what passes for English these days. Post away Sir!
 
John, I'd say that your so-called "lack of written communication skills" is better than some of the college-educated written communication skills I see daily. On facebook, I see people I went to school with, who went to college after high school and got their bachelor degrees (I got an associate degree at age 39), and I see their spelling and grammar, and I wonder, "How in the world did that person sit in the same classroom that I did, and not be able to figure out if they should use 'there', 'they're', or 'their', or likewise, 'to', 'too', or 'two'?"

You're doing fine in my book, and there is no excuse for anyone who wants to jump on your education level. To do so, in my book, is just pathetic.
 
Everskyward said:
If you don't tell anyone they will never know...
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Quite true. People are generally shocked to find out I don't have a degree. Somehow I have managed to learn over the past 35 years what a college would have taught me in 4, go figure.
 
There was a girl in my engineering class whose intellect varied with the amount of hairspray she had applied that day.

The Amish stop at 8th grade. They seem to get along fine. They are concerned that further education makes one susceptible to being prideful. Might have a point, there...

All that said, I do tend to be a grammar nazi on occasion. I suppose it is just my petty way to defend the tattered remains of our culture/language. Forgive me if I step on toes.
 
All I care about is that written communication be clear, and preferably concise. I work with lots of people that have advanced engineering degrees, and many of them have laughable writing skills.
 
Sac Arrow said:
All I care about is that written communication be clear, and preferably concise.
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Why,, it's going to be mis interpreted and lead into thread creep and lost on most of the folks on the internet.
 
With all of the things people get dumped on for in this forum, grammar skills should rank fairly low, IMO. The more time you spend on internet forums, the more you learn to look past the words to find the meaning behind them. The internet is the world's largest melting pot. Where else, other than the military, do you see such a diverse group interacting at so many levels?

For the sake of full disclosure, I have no college education. It has held me back a few times, when HR departments paid more attention to their artificial hiring restrictions than to my demonstrated ability to perform and excel. I sometimes wish that I had spent four years at the party place instead of enrolling in the school of hard knocks, but I'm pretty satisfied with how I turned out, and as was said earlier no one knows unless I tell them (and they are usually surprised).

By the way, John, I read your mega-thread on the rough road you took to earning your PPL. You have nothing to worry about with regards to your ability to communicate. And your contributions to this forum speak for themselves. I'm glad you were here to share the experience with people like me that stand to gain the most from it. Thank you for putting your life out there for the rest of us to see. Please don't stop.
 
don't ask, don't tell. I don't care at age 53 what someone's educational level is - really - I don't anymore . If the OP gets snarked - ignore the a-hole . . . life's too short.
 
Sac Arrow said:
All I care about is that written communication be clear, and preferably concise. I work with lots of people that have advanced engineering degrees, and many of them have laughable writing skills.
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Yes, the one disadvantage of this means of communication is lack of any context outside of the actual meaning of the words written. Misuse can lead to misunderstanding. When this occurs, the usual path is clarification and an apology for the misunderstanding. This path has nothing to do with education, it is the result of the normal human honor, and willingness to admit a mistake which is the signature of mature individuals.
 
John Baker said:
This is an issue I have thought about more than a few times in the past. Yesterday, on this forum, I was dumped on for my lack of education. The most formal education I received was my completing the ninth grade at a public school.

I received a high school GED in the military.

So...should people who lack written communication skills, refrain from posting their thoughts on public forums such as this one. Are these forums intended to be more for the educated elite among us, rather than the Dumbo buffoons, much like myself?

Apparently I express myself at a sixth grade level. Is this something that I should be ashamed of? Should I refrain from risking personal humiliation or perhaps offending the more educated readers of this forum?

I am being serious here. Are you personally offended by having to struggle through the written ramblings of the uneducated?

Should I back off? Should I leave such things to my educated betters?

-John
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I don't think you express yourself at a 6th grade level.
 
John Baker said:
This is an issue I have thought about more than a few times in the past. Yesterday, on this forum, I was dumped on for my lack of education. The most formal education I received was my completing the ninth grade at a public school.

I received a high school GED in the military.

So...should people who lack written communication skills, refrain from posting their thoughts on public forums such as this one. Are these forums intended to be more for the educated elite among us, rather than the Dumbo buffoons, much like myself?

Apparently I express myself at a sixth grade level. Is this something that I should be ashamed of? Should I refrain from risking personal humiliation or perhaps offending the more educated readers of this forum?

I am being serious here. Are you personally offended by having to struggle through the written ramblings of the uneducated?

Should I back off? Should I leave such things to my educated betters?

-John
Click to expand...

I had a look at the thread involved, and it appears to me that the discussion had already been circling the drain for a few hours before he made his comment about your educational level. Escalation happens. I wish I knew a solution for it.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=946729&postcount=67
 
There's a big difference between intelligence and education. My grandfather didn't get past 8th grade but died a successful millionare. My brother-in-law has 2 masters degrees and can't buy dinner for his family.
 
John Baker said:
This is an issue I have thought about more than a few times in the past. Yesterday, on this forum, I was dumped on for my lack of education. The most formal education I received was my completing the ninth grade at a public school.

I received a high school GED in the military.

So...should people who lack written communication skills, refrain from posting their thoughts on public forums such as this one. Are these forums intended to be more for the educated elite among us, rather than the Dumbo buffoons, much like myself?

Apparently I express myself at a sixth grade level. Is this something that I should be ashamed of? Should I refrain from risking personal humiliation or perhaps offending the more educated readers of this forum?

I am being serious here. Are you personally offended by having to struggle through the written ramblings of the uneducated?

Should I back off? Should I leave such things to my educated betters?

-John
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John - I didn't see the thread, but all I have to say based on your first line above is, "shame on us." :( I am ashamed that happened on our forum.

Greg
 
Formal education is for both career growth and personal growth. I've never liked it when people knock the advantages of college and industry designations. With that said, it does take a lot of time and effort, and once my kids came along I stopped picking up industry designations and don't regret it at all.

I haven't looked for the thread where you were trashed for your level of education, but no decent person, regardless of his level of education, would do that.

As for grammar nitpickers...I have more than my fair share of typos, and I use commas way too often, etc. But there are times you want to slap someone upside the head for posts that the reader has to decrypt. Sometimes it's as much work as trying to decrypt my daughter's text messages.
 
I really don't think a formal education matters much after you hit 35 or so, it will open doors when you are young. But experience is what counts as you get older and hopefully wiser. I really never thought about anyone's educational level on here, it really doesn't have much bearing on the discussion unless you happen to be an aeronautical engineer and we are discussing aerodynamics. :D
 
Rigged4Flight said:
By the way, John, I read your mega-thread on the rough road you took to earning your PPL. You have nothing to worry about with regards to your ability to communicate. And your contributions to this forum speak for themselves. I'm glad you were here to share the experience with people like me that stand to gain the most from it. Thank you for putting your life out there for the rest of us to see. Please don't stop.
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woodstock said:
I don't think you express yourself at a 6th grade level.
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I fully agree. Nothing wrong with your written communications at all. Any errors and you simply chalk them up to "typographical errors" like I do. :D
 
Plenty of stinkin' thinkin' comes from people with lots of capital letters behind their name. I used to just revere anyone with a degree...but since I've met so many 'educated' morons that now I don't consider formal education has anything to do with smarts - but maybe with perseverance. Besides, the true value of an education is what you remember - after you forgot what you learned.
 
j1b3h0 said:
Plenty of stinkin' thinkin' comes from people with lots of capital letters behind their name. I used to just revere anyone with a degree...but since I've met so many 'educated' morons that now I don't consider formal education has anything to do with smarts - but maybe with perseverance. Besides, the true value of an education is what you remember - after you forgot what you learned.
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As one who grew up in the academic world, and has a BS,

BS = Bull^&*t
MS = More of the Same
PhD = Piled Higher and Deeper
 
Florida Cracker said:
Some of the dumbest people I have ever met, had college degrees and some of the smartest had no education to speak of, at all.
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This.

I've worked with a very smart CEO that dropped out of college (he increased the value of the company many-fold in his tenure & made the public shareholders a LOT of money), and I've worked with highly educated folks that couldn't solve a practical problem if the answer were on the whiteboard in front of them.

This forum is NOT about educational level, it's about & for folks that love flying and aviation.

Oh, and there should be no attacks of any kind on others here....
 
caveat: I read the thread referenced, and my post earlier in this thread doesn't imply that I take the side of either party in the slapfest that the other thread turned in to. It's too bad we can't disconnect our ego when we log on to this forum.
 
John go his feelings hurt. Don't dump on John any more.
 
I don't know who trashed you John, but you're a pilot, and aircraft owner, so I can't imagine what else you'd need to be here.
 
John Baker said:
This is an issue I have thought about more than a few times in the past. Yesterday, on this forum, I was dumped on for my lack of education. The most formal education I received was my completing the ninth grade at a public school.

I received a high school GED in the military.

So...should people who lack written communication skills, refrain from posting their thoughts on public forums such as this one. Are these forums intended to be more for the educated elite among us, rather than the Dumbo buffoons, much like myself?

Apparently I express myself at a sixth grade level. Is this something that I should be ashamed of? Should I refrain from risking personal humiliation or perhaps offending the more educated readers of this forum?

I am being serious here. Are you personally offended by having to struggle through the written ramblings of the uneducated?

Should I back off? Should I leave such things to my educated betters?

-John
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As someone who makes a living by writing, let me say that you present yourself well, John. Education and intelligence shouldn't be measured solely by your background (I myself check "Some College" on surveys) but rather on the arguments you make, and how intelligently you present them.

That said, I find misspelled words and the inability to use proper grammar to be distasteful, even on the Internet. They present an undesirable first impression that's difficult, if not impossible, to overcome. If someone wants me to entertain their point, the burden is on them to present it well. If they can't do that, they shouldn't expect me to listen to them very long.

If all else fails, write in Word and run the spell-and-grammar check before posting.
 
After years of writing offering circulars, consulting reports and other stuff that required at least a modicum of formal structure, I enjoy the freedom of "just write it like you say it" and don't give a ratsass what anybody else thinks about it. Nobody has ever changed their mind based on anything written in an internet forum anyway, so why would we think it will matter if it's well-written?

Signed,

Some graduate school



flightwriter said:
As someone who makes a living by writing, let me say that you present yourself well, John. Education and intelligence shouldn't be measured solely by your background (I myself check "Some College" on surveys) but rather on the arguments you make, and how intelligently you present them.

That said, I find misspelled words and the inability to use proper grammar to be distasteful, even on the Internet. They present an undesirable first impression that's difficult, if not impossible, to overcome. If someone wants me to entertain their point, the burden is on them to present it well. If they can't do that, they shouldn't expect me to listen to them very long.

If all else fails, write in Word and run the spell-and-grammar check before posting.
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
After years of writing offering circulars, consulting reports and other stuff that required at least a modicum of formal structure, I enjoy the freedom of "just write it like you say it" and don't give a ratsass what anybody else thinks about it. Nobody has ever changed their mind based on anything written in an internet forum anyway, so why would we think it will matter if it's well-written?

Signed,

Some graduate school
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Meh. To each their own. I freely admit to being an elitist snob when it comes to word usage.
 
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John,
John,
I have to say, on this board, it is not the size of your vocabulary that matters... It is the size of your wallet that counts! I don't recall an annual costing XXX amount of vocabulary! Rich dad / poor dad provide the perfect example of your situation. With that being said, I feel that having an education is important, regardless if it’s self taught or through directed studies. I find that people today are more like sheep and like to be spoon fed, whereas, the older generation seems to be more self reliant.
 
This board has an entrance exam when you sign up. If you are too stupid to be able to sign up and post, you are not welcome.

BTW, in my family, we have one person with a JD, one with a MS, one with a BS, one with a high school diploma, and one with a GED.

The GED is the only one working in a managerial position.
 
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