What is the preferred educational level this forum should allow?

wabower said:
After years of writing offering circulars, consulting reports and other stuff that required at least a modicum of formal structure, I enjoy the freedom of "just write it like you say it" and don't give a ratsass what anybody else thinks about it. Nobody has ever changed their mind based on anything written in an internet forum anyway, so why would we think it will matter if it's well-written?

Signed,

Some graduate school
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I have changed my mind occasionally because of things written on Internet forums.
 
AuntPeggy said:
John go his feelings hurt. Don't dump on John any more.
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Wow, I thought I was on your ignore list. Thanks for the support. I hate it when my feelings get hurt.

I think my point has been proved. It matters to some how well we write and present ourselves, it does not matter to others, the message is what counts.

What should the minimum qualifications be to post here? Myself, I think it should be a pilots license, or a strong desire to obtain one.

I am a slave to spell check, which does not always catch my blunders. I have noticed that the more I contribute, the less my chops get busted by spell check, and the better I become at presenting my thoughts..

Do I become embarrassed by what I contribute? Sometimes I do, but it is more about the impulsive content, than the quality of my writing.

I'm getting on in years, many things that at one time seemed important, no longer are. Things that did not seem important, now do. I will bend over to remove a snail or worm from the sidewalk so it does not get stepped on, stupid things like that seem worth the effort now.

I regret allowing myself too be baited into that contest on the other thread, I usually try not to do that. I'm not the great and perfect person I at one time believed I was, so I now make mistakes.

I think for the betterment of this wonderful forum, POA, we should try to make this place as friendly as possible so as newbies won't become intimidated.

Where we really become the losers is when a contribution is not made, for whatever reason.

-John
 
Ghery said:
As one who grew up in the academic world, and has a BS,

BS = Bull^&*t
MS = More of the Same
PhD = Piled Higher and Deeper
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Having hit for the cycle on that front I claim to be an idiot-savant (without the savant part).
 
Side bar: it's been brought to my attention I offended someone with my posts in this thread. I have no other way to do it, so, my apologies, no offense meant.

Back to topic.
 
The question never entered my mind untill this thread. Don't see any reason to worry about it.

Gary
 
John Baker said:
Wow, I thought I was on your ignore list. Thanks for the support. I hate it when my feelings get hurt. <snip>
-John
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John -
My ignore list is empty. Usually is. Except for the time that I totally forgot about someone who quit coming to the board, I don't leave anyone in there for more than a month. I don't remember you ever being there. One of the advantages of growing old is forgetting about annoyances.
 
I will say one thing -

I have many friends of mine who only finished HS and who I would die on a hill for - and they for me -

I have many many acquaintances who have advanced degrees and not one whom I could count on to come bail me out if the bail was $20 and the charge was public drunkeness.

I have a Bachelors degree and a Juris Doctor - and almost every liberal I know has a college degree. I can't stand most of them -
 
John,

I enjoy our exchanges. We don't always agree, but I've always found you to keep your opinions coherent, well-reasoned and civil. That's pretty much all that matters to me.
 
I think it's like everyone else has pointed out already, there are some people with great intelligence who never finished school and yet managed to go on to accomplish great things and those with lots of letters after their names. :rolleyes: That said though, I'm proud of the fact that between Christopher (my husband) and myself, we have 5 college degrees. It is what it is... they don't make us any better or worse than anyone else, we had the opportunity and resources to continue our education(s) and we took advantage of it. It's all about making the best life you can for yourself and others with the talents, abilities, and options you were given. And, of course, whether you can use "to", "two", and "too" correctly every time in a sentence. :)
 
Dear John,

Why would a person of your superior intelligence need to go to school?

You are welcome,

Geico
 
numl0ck said:
I think it's more maturity level than education.

What does "educated" mean anyway? I went to college (although it took me 6 years to get a 4 year degree, but that's another story), I got the sheepskin and I work in my field. So, I know a thing or two about computers...wooo. When it comes to planes, I'm a 25 hour pilot. I'm not educated in that respect at all.

People who look down on others because they never finished school, or never went on to higher education are being immature, selfish and short sited.
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[clears throat] Uh, Mr. College education, I believe you meant "sighted" in this instance. Carry on.

:goofy::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
I got my fundamentals of mechanics training in trade school, the rest I got from the school of hard knocks.
 
Geico266 said:
Dear John,

Why would a person of your superior intelligence need to go to school?

You are welcome,

Geico
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:yeahthat::happydance: :D

Actually, what little time I spent in school, I did very well, even received an honor award once. Too bad I was in Tijuana drinking beer and missed the ceremony. Just never in my wildest dreams expected that.

I had citizenship problems. I think now it's called behavioral problems, so they drug you up these days. I did it on my own with beer. Just kidding about the beer, only did that a few times. It was at the end of the school year, so what the heck.

What I did wrong in school was I would read all my textbooks cover to cover as soon as they were issued to me. I spent my time in class bored to tears...er antics, simply because I had already covered all the material being taught. My test results ran from A's to C's. I also had a fondness for fighting, which did little to endear me to my teachers or school principal.

The only really smart thing I did as a kid was join the Army. It probably saved my life. The little thugs I ran with discovered drugs right after I enlisted. They all died years ago. Not one of them made it to thirty.

-John
 
John Baker said:
:yeahthat::happydance: :D

Actually, what little time I spent in school, I did very well, even received an honor award once. Too bad I was in Tijuana drinking beer and missed the ceremony. Just never in my wildest dreams expected that.

I had citizenship problems. I think now it's called behavioral problems, so they drug you up these days. I did it on my own with beer. Just kidding about the beer, only did that a few times. It was at the end of the school year, so what the heck.

What I did wrong in school was I would read all my textbooks cover to cover as soon as they were issued to me. I spent my time in class bored to tears...er antics, simply because I had already covered all the material being taught. My test results ran from A's to C's. I also had a fondness for fighting, which did little to endear me to my teachers or school principal.

The only really smart thing I did as a kid was join the Army. It probably saved my life. The little thugs I ran with discovered drugs right after I enlisted. They all died years ago. Not one of them made it to thirty.

-John
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Good for you John.

I think military service should be mandatory in this country. Put 250,000 18 year olds on the borders with M-16's will orders to shoot to kill, and if you kill an illegal you get our early with a $10k bonus. That would pretty much end the illegal border crossing problem huh? :rofl:
 
Geico266 said:
Good for you John.

I think military service should be mandatory in this country. Put 250,000 18 year olds on the borders with M-16's will orders to shoot to kill, and if you kill an illegal you get our early with a $10k bonus. That would pretty much end the illegal border crossing problem huh? :rofl:
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Except, half of the 250,000 would be Illegals helping their cousins across.
 
In those days 1958, there was not much of an issue about crossing back and forth over the border, you just walked or drove across. There were a whole lot of Americans working or going to school on this side, and living on that side to save money. Mexicans and Gringos lived on either side and worked on the other side.

We, as middle school kids, fifteen to sixteen years old, had no problem whatsoever crossing either direction. I had a friend who drove a garbage truck in Tijuana for a while. He escaped from a youth correctional facility in Campo, then just cut across the border and lived the remainder of his youth down there. He was Gringo.

It was very rare to even be asked anything when walking across, other than answering where you were born. Proof was never asked for.

Now, that same border gate looks like your entering or leaving a prison. Iron bars and razor wire. Border guards everywhere. It does not feel like your entering a free country at all. Things are really twisted at our borders.

It's reminiscent of entering East Germany during the cold war in Berlin, except it's more ominous looking if your heading north. If your heading south, you have a distinct feeling of leaving a prison.

I guess I should add that the thought of finding yourself in the middle of a cartel shoot out, or being kidnapped and beheaded just was not there. We could wander all over Tijuana, nasty little Gringos, without a care in the world. Mexicans were almost protective of us, at least the adults seemed that way.

Anyway, we never got in trouble down there, I doubt if that's the case today, for a kid or adult.

-John
 
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Don't underestimate the fifth grade.

My father quit school in the fifth grade to help the family when his dad died. He always thought he would go back and finish, but he never made it back. Rheumatic Fever as a child and flat feet kept him from going military so he worked hard on a job he didn't even want to develop the skill set he knew he needed. He was promoted on that job, simply because he was the only one of his crew who could read and write. This opportunity he made the most of and it would eventually enable him to travel the world and do business internationally in the textile industry. He sent all five of his children to college and even with degrees in hand, we haven't matched his level of success. Of course, success is relative.

In retrospect, I would trade my two degrees for my dad's "fifth grade education" in a heart beat.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Side bar: it's been brought to my attention I offended someone with my posts in this thread. I have no other way to do it, so, my apologies, no offense meant.

Back to topic.
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It has come to my attention that there are a lot of thin-skinned people that frequent forums. Sometimes it's just best to take a punch to the nose, return the favor (or not), and move on. One of the problems with online forums is a significant percentage of the people that inhabit them have some degree of OCD, and just can't let go of issues, no matter how trivial they would be outside of a forum.
 
John Baker said:
In those days 1958, there was not much of an issue about crossing back and forth over the border, you just walked or drove across. There were a whole lot of Americans working or going to school on this side, and living on that side to save money. Mexicans and Gringos lived on either side and worked on the other side.

We, as middle school kids, fifteen to sixteen years old, had no problem whatsoever crossing either direction. I had a friend who drove a garbage truck in Tijuana for a while. He escaped from a youth correctional facility in Campo, then just cut across the border and lived the remainder of his youth down there. He was Gringo.

It was very rare to even be asked anything when walking across, other than answering where you were born. Proof was never asked for.

Now, that same border gate looks like your entering or leaving a prison. Iron bars and razor wire. Border guards everywhere. It does not feel like your entering a free country at all. Things are really twisted at our borders.

It's reminiscent of entering East Germany during the cold war in Berlin, except it's more ominous looking if your heading north. If your heading south, you have a distinct feeling of leaving a prison.

I guess I should add that the thought of finding yourself in the middle of a cartel shoot out, or being kidnapped and beheaded just was not there. We could wander all over Tijuana, nasty little Gringos, without a care in the world. Mexicans were almost protective of us, at least the adults seemed that way.

Anyway, we never got in trouble down there, I doubt if that's the case today, for a kid or adult.

-John
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I have spent many enjoyable weekend on the beaches of Baja. Never worried about my safety back then, no reason to.
 
Lacking a formal education, I managed to maintain a flying career. I made it to 747 captain, despite a lot of naysayers whining about the lack of "education."

Formal education has little to do with learning; the two are not synonymous.

A few months ago I sat with a group of pilots in a bar in New York. The discussion was about some proposed requirements being considered in contract negotiations. An individual involved in that process told me that they were working to exclude people without a college degree. "We're trying to keep out the riff raff," he said.

"I don't have a college degree." I observed.

"It's okay, you'll be grandfathered in. It's just later that people who aren't qualified won't be accepted."

"So you're saying I'm riff raff, but will be okay for now because I was already here? I asked.

"Exactly." He said.

That kind of arrogance isn't uncommon at all, especially among professionals.

One doesn't need a formal education in order to have proper grammar or diction. Those are life skills that one should be able to utilize regardless of whether one has letters after one's name. Going to school isn't necessary to learn to write or speak properly. It helps, I'm sure, but it isn't necessary.

One is judged in public (and in private, where most web boards and books are read) by one's ability to communicate, often with little feedback from the reader or listener.

The ability to communicate clearly and get one's point across, and to do so with a minimum of distraction from grammar and spelling errors helps.

I recently moved to a mac, and I'm finding that the computer seems to be constantly changing what I've written to words it thinks I should have said...another blip on the learning curve as I go back to correct what the computer has changed to what I wanted to say.

I don't know what thread was involved or what was said about your education, but the best thing you can do is to disregard what was said and move on. After all, any one that complains about your educational level is only displaying their own, and it's not as high as they might think.
 
DouglasBader said:
The ability to communicate clearly and get one's point across, and to do so with a minimum of distraction from grammar and spelling errors helps.

I recently moved to a mac,...
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Capitalization errors can be distracting too. :wink2:

I don't know what thread was involved or what was said about your education, but the best thing you can do is to disregard what was said and move on. After all, any one that complains about your educational level is only displaying their own, and it's not as high as they might think.
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It was the culmination of an argument that apparently started here:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=946729&postcount=67

Considering the process of escalation that followed, I'd say that John is doing a good job of portraying himself as the victim.
 
Palmpilot said:
Capitalization errors can be distracting too. :wink2:



It was the culmination of an argument that apparently started here:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=946729&postcount=67

Considering the process of escalation that followed, I'd say that John is doing a good job of portraying himself as the victim.
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It's a skill that took years to develop. You do not need an education to develop skills. Had I wanted to become a writer as bad as I wanted to become a pilot, I would have. You do not need a degree to write a book, but you do need writing skills.

My current obsession is learning to program the large CNC woodcarving machine I bought a few months ago. I have been working on soundproofing my garage, buying support equipment, getting all the electrical hooked up.

Today I'm going to give Mary's huge oversize Tibetan Mastiff a flea bath, then I'm going to start organizing my new shop, That is assuming that Murf does not disassemble me.

Anyway, I think the reason I started this thread is because perhaps I am sensitive about my lack of education, or perhaps I wanted to see if others thought the same way as the person who made the comment that started all this.

Either way, I do love to put my thoughts out there in order to get feedback from others, be it negative or positive. I've been learning a whole lot just by engaging myself on this forum and the others that also foolishly put up with me.

This has been a particularly interesting thread for me, that never would have taken place were it not for the kick in the pants I received on that other thread.

-John
 
There are some topics where significant education (whether formal or informal) is needed. But to post in the forum to begin with? No problem. Not that I see any problem with expression to begin with.

I once met a high school dropout USCG Diesel tech, with a very deep understanding of the mechanical engineering that goes into those. I suggested he consider an engineering degree from Cal (as he was stationed at Alameda, only a few miles away). He would have been a near-perfect student. But he said it wasn't for him.

Education helps -- a lot -- but it's not even close to absolutely required.
 
MAKG1 said:
There are some topics where significant education (whether formal or informal) is needed. But to post in the forum to begin with? No problem. Not that I see any problem with expression to begin with.

I once met a high school dropout USCG Diesel tech, with a very deep understanding of the mechanical engineering that goes into those. I suggested he consider an engineering degree from Cal (as he was stationed at Alameda, only a few miles away). He would have been a near-perfect student. But he said it wasn't for him.

Education helps -- a lot -- but it's not even close to absolutely required.
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Education does help a lot -- but there are many ways to become educated.
 
I'm currently working on my BS using the GI Bill, and taking flight lessons at the same time. Do I need the degree for my job? No. Will it help my in the long run? Maybe, but just to put the check in the box. I feel that learning to fly is going to be more beneficial to me in the long run. I have no desrie to work in the same field when I retire, but aviation could become a major factor in my retirement plans. Like others have said, education comes in many forms. A piece of paper doesn't make one educated.
 
It was the culmination of an argument that apparently started here:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum...9&postcount=67

Considering the process of escalation that followed, I'd say that John is doing a good job of portraying himself as the victim.
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Having gone back to review the thread, it seems that the original poster here has mislead the audience. He wasn't called on the carpet for lack of education at all. He was called out, deservedly, for his behavior. I doubt that the person who did so had any idea of JohnBaker's actual education level.

ThreeFingeredJack was insulted repeatedly for his service, and even the reply to him was insulting. Now to read JohnBaker's comment that "It's a skill that took years to develop" in response to JohnBaker portraying himself as a victim, the character has been made perfectly clear. It wipes out any sympathy for John Baker.

This was never a case of someone being told their education was insufficient. This was a case of someone speaking out of turn, receiving some deserved correction several pages into the melee, then crying about it afterward.

Perhaps in this case, neither education nor learning has taken place. Then again, as JohnBaker tells us, "You do not need an education to develop skills." The skill he tells us he spent years developing is portraying himself as a victim. Well done.
 
Education is the single most over valued item on a resume. With public schools graduating anything that can fog a mirror, and colleges following very closely, these days, to maintain all those gov't subsidies for "retraining" the unemployed, a college degree is about as worthwhile as taking your accordion fishing with you.
People either know how to work, or they don't. The rest you can teach them, after their hired.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest, in response to the original question, that at least a kindergarden level education be formally required.

I know that might cause some people to be excluded, but that is probably for the best...
 
DouglasBader said:
Having gone back to review the thread, it seems that the original poster here has mislead the audience. He wasn't called on the carpet for lack of education at all. He was called out, deservedly, for his behavior. I doubt that the person who did so had any idea of JohnBaker's actual education level.

ThreeFingeredJack was insulted repeatedly for his service, and even the reply to him was insulting. Now to read JohnBaker's comment that "It's a skill that took years to develop" in response to JohnBaker portraying himself as a victim, the character has been made perfectly clear. It wipes out any sympathy for John Baker.

This was never a case of someone being told their education was insufficient. This was a case of someone speaking out of turn, receiving some deserved correction several pages into the melee, then crying about it afterward.

Perhaps in this case, neither education nor learning has taken place. Then again, as JohnBaker tells us, "You do not need an education to develop skills." The skill he tells us he spent years developing is portraying himself as a victim. Well done.
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The process of escalating an argument is one that many of us have gotten into on occasion. I know that I certainly have.
 
DouglasBader said:
Having gone back to review the thread, it seems that the original poster here has mislead the audience. He wasn't called on the carpet for lack of education at all. He was called out, deservedly, for his behavior. I doubt that the person who did so had any idea of JohnBaker's actual education level.

ThreeFingeredJack was insulted repeatedly for his service, and even the reply to him was insulting. Now to read JohnBaker's comment that "It's a skill that took years to develop" in response to JohnBaker portraying himself as a victim, the character has been made perfectly clear. It wipes out any sympathy for John Baker.

This was never a case of someone being told their education was insufficient. This was a case of someone speaking out of turn, receiving some deserved correction several pages into the melee, then crying about it afterward.

Perhaps in this case, neither education nor learning has taken place. Then again, as JohnBaker tells us, "You do not need an education to develop skills." The skill he tells us he spent years developing is portraying himself as a victim. Well done.
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This is the post that motivated this thread. I agree, I was not thinking when I made the post that got his dander up. I tried to correct myself later, but it was no good, he was out for blood. I should have just backed off when this became clear. Anyway, I was not looking for sympathy when I started this thread, I was trying to find out if others regarded how I present myself as he did. My comment regarding skill in looking for sympathy was my being sarcastic, nothing more.

However, I am getting a "here we go again" feeling, so I will stop.


"The use of the article "you" in specific reply to one of my posts puts the lie to your pathetic attempt to cover up an egregious mistake. If you had wanted to speak to all government employees the use of "they" would have been appropriate . But since it is obvious that you do not even know the difference between "your", which is a possessive, and "you're" which is a contraction of "you are" it is little wonder I was confused, and you are without any health care or retirement. Learn to write above the 6th grade level you currently operate at, and this mistake won't happen again. "


-John
 
Geico266 said:
Good for you John.

I think military service should be mandatory in this country. Put 250,000 18 year olds on the borders with M-16's will orders to shoot to kill, and if you kill an illegal you get our early with a $10k bonus. That would pretty much end the illegal border crossing problem huh? :rofl:
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why so much hate against illegal immigrants?:dunno::dunno:
 
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