What is Oshkosh?

[flyingcheesehead]

The Cadillac seaplane and skiplane weekends have ended, so unless that changes, I probably won't be going there anymore. Sure was fun while it lasted.

Ah, bummer! I just went and looked and my last invite was for the Feb. 24 weekend. I was hoping they'd stick around long enough that I could start taking my boys once they can handle being unsupervised a bit better - They're both airplane nuts.

the EAA is not about EXPERIMENTAL aircraft. when Rutan brought composites into the mix that was experimental. Cirrus started in the 80s as an experiment with a cabin class pusher. Kitfox renewed the nostalgia of the cub/stol.

The number of people who do truly experimental stuff is vanishingly small. Do you think that people who build an RV from a kit should be represented by EAA? I mean, that's hardly experimental except that it isn't certified, it has the EXPERIMENTAL tag inside, and an Experimental - Amateur Built airworthiness certificate. So where do you draw the line?

Even the EAA dismisses wood construction and fabric covering... when was the last time they did some good articles on the process? no, not a company, but a tech article about wood and fabric? crickets?

No, termites! ;p But they do have workshops on wood and fabric at Oshkosh. I'm not sure what yet another article is going to accomplish - Go back to the archives.

why is the EAA not pushing more AnPs and instead concentrates on pilots?

They are, at all levels. Kidventure has a bunch of stations where kids can do a brake job, build things using various techniques and materials... There's another area in the main part of the show whose name I forget that also has some games and such for kids of a fairly wide variety of ages that talks about the A&P shortage. There's this: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...-is-like-graduate-school-for-owners-mechanics

not even builders... some guy spending $200k on a certificated barn find... and he can't even do the work he just pays to have it done... yeah,that's a fascinating read... dude spent money. WOW.

Yeah, that definitely grinds my gears a bit, though they at least usually have the technical details as well or it'd be an awfully boring article.

 

[strangebird]

Oshkosh is, what you make of it.

Oshkosh is expensive to go to, in all ways, a week there can cost you thousands of $$ but it is airplane mecca

Someone mentioned buying a weekly pass early the thing is if you end up not going you do not get a refund which is why I do not buy camping or the weekly pass ahead of time, go early before show starts, fun to watch all the arrivals.
It can be hot, cold rainy and smokie from wildfires.

 

[strangebird]

The joke is if all the old, bald, fat, old timers did not show up, there would be no Oshkosh, it has become more of a destination than an aviation event, Camp Scholler is like the county fair anymore, including the carnies kids run wild on dirt bikes and more, not laid back like it used to be, I have to wonder how many people that go are actually aviation people., my guess more than half

 

[keen9]

Oshkosh is expensive to go to, in all ways, a week there can cost you thousands of $$ but it is airplane mecca

Is is also much less expensive than a lot of vacations even though it is so much better! Find me a good week long event you can get a ticket for $161. Lodging ranges from inexpensive to $$$$$, but that is a choice, and of course flying yourself there costs something, but I would have flown somewhere anyway.

 

[jesse]

Camp Scholler is like the county fair anymore, including the carnies kids run wild on dirt bikes and more, not laid back like it used to be, I have to wonder how many people that go are actually aviation people., my guess more than half

lol, if you think kids running around on dirt bikes and getting into some trouble at Camp Scholler is anything new, you haven't been going there for very long. I can positively say that was occurring over 30 years ago (I was a kid running around on a dirtbike). I can also say that was occurring 50 years ago as well, as my dad was doing the same thing.

 

[Lowflynjack]

The joke is if all the old, bald, fat, old timers did not show up

Hey... I resemble that remark!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The joke is if all the old, bald, fat, old timers did not show up, there would be no Oshkosh, it has become more of a destination than an aviation event, Camp Scholler is like the county fair anymore, including the carnies kids run wild on dirt bikes and more, not laid back like it used to be, I have to wonder how many people that go are actually aviation people., my guess more than half

Obviously more than half are aviation people. It's probably still well above 90%, though there is a small contingent that are just RVers as Camp Scholler is pretty cheap as far as places to park an RV goes, there are lots of services available, and there are RV companies that exhibit in the parts of the show closest to the campground (as well as in the campground itself). For them, the airplanes are just extra entertainment.

 

[ytodd]

Oshkosh is expensive to go to, in all ways, a week there can cost you thousands of $$ but it is airplane mecca

Someone mentioned buying a weekly pass early the thing is if you end up not going you do not get a refund which is why I do not buy camping or the weekly pass ahead of time, go early before show starts, fun to watch all the arrivals.
It can be hot, cold rainy and smokie from wildfires.

I don't spend a thousand dollars going to Airventure for a week, let alone "thousands". I guess one could certainly spend alot, but you don't have to.

 

[Lowflynjack]

I don't spend a thousand dollars going to Airventure for a week, let alone "thousands". I guess one could certainly spend alot, but you don't have to.

I get my tickets/camping for free since I work the show. It takes me 13 hours round-trip to fly there, roughly 13 gph, ~$5/gallon = $845. We spend the night at a hotel on the way up, so another $135. Food and beer for two of us and I'm well over $1K, but if I'm there 7 days, $150-$175 per day for two of us is well worth it to me.

 

[tsts4]

I get my tickets/camping for free since I work the show. It takes me 13 hours round-trip to fly there, roughly 13 gph, ~$5/gallon = $845. We spend the night at a hotel on the way up, so another $135. Food and beer for two of us and I'm well over $1K, but if I'm there 7 days, $150-$175 per day for two of us is well worth it to me.

We're on the high end since we camp at a private campground in a rented RV. Factor in food, fuel, and misc expenses and it's definitely a chunk of change for us but way less than what we'd spend on a 10-day comparable vacation anywhere else.

 

[AV8R_87]

I have to wonder how many people that go are actually aviation people., my guess more than half

Obviously more than half are aviation people. It's probably still well above 90%, though there is a small contingent that are just RVers as Camp Scholler is pretty cheap as far as places to park an RV goes

You need to be an EAA member to camp there. So, at a minimum, all people purchasing camping for the week also have a valid EAA membership.

Makes them "aviation enough" people in my book, more than the people who rent hangars at the airport to store boats/cars/bikes/RVs in them. And probably on par with the people who keep a plane in a hangar, but haven't flown in a year or more, with the plane's airworthiness not being the reason for it.

 

[jesse]

Makes them "aviation enough" people in my book

I've found the "you're not even a pilot!" to be the real problem people.

In all the time I've been there, I've only had a problem with one person, a Karen who went ballistic because my teenage cousin girls (13 y/os ish) were playing hide and seek and one of them hid behind the Karen's camper. She was convinced they were going to steal her camper because they weren't white (asian/arabic). I initiated contact trying to cool her down and she proceeded to scream over and over that 'you're not even a pilot!'. I spent a few minutes trying to have a reasonable conversation with her, after which, I approached her husband and informed him that my tolerance for her ******** has went from 20% to 0% and I'd highly recommend he disengage her. He then forced her inside. I then spent the next two hours talking airplanes with the guy outside the camper while watching her pace back and forth inside the camper in an absolute rage that her husband was being friendly.

 

[Lowflynjack]

a Karen who went ballistic

They're everywhere and especially when we get this many people in one place.

The biggest Karen I've ever faced there was a woman on the flightl ine, who likes to yell at people. Not sure how she's still a volunteer. She even got Flight Line Volunteer of the Year once! She actually yelled at me one time because I had left my landing light on after landing. She looked shocked when I asked her how the hell that was any of her business.

 

[TCABM]

… She actually yelled at me one time because I had left my landing light on after landing. ….

And this right here is the singles biggest reason I won’t invest the time, money, and accept the risk to fly into Airventure. I’d love to go for a couple of workshops, talk to a couple of specifc companies, see some planes and the night airshows, but I don’t particularly care to deal with an event that won’t allow that kind of behavior by it’s volunteers.

 

[rwellner98]

And this right here is the singles biggest reason I won’t invest the time, money, and accept the risk to fly into Airventure. I’d love to go for a couple of workshops, talk to a couple of specifc companies, see some planes and the night airshows, but I don’t particularly care to deal with an event that won’t allow that kind of behavior by it’s volunteers.

I've been going for 15 years, so not as long as some here, but a good run.

I've never had an experience like that. The volunteers are mostly awesome people, doing a way above average job in what can be a physically demanding and draining environment.

Now, if I've convinced you to go... My forum is scheduled for midday Wednesday this year.

 

[tsts4]

And this right here is the singles biggest reason I won’t invest the time, money, and accept the risk to fly into Airventure. I’d love to go for a couple of workshops, talk to a couple of specifc companies, see some planes and the night airshows, but I don’t particularly care to deal with an event that won’t allow that kind of behavior by it’s volunteers.

Definitely the exception to the rule. Do bad interactions happen -- absolutely. But by in large you could go years and never witness anything remotely like that at Osh. I personally can't recall any kind of really bad acting out and I certainly wouldn't stay away for the fear running into obnoxious/rude behavior. I would characterize Osh as one of the last bastions of civility left in the US, especially when you consider the size of the event.

 

[flyingron]

You need to be an EAA member to camp there. So, at a minimum, all people purchasing camping for the week also have a valid EAA membership.

Makes them "aviation enough" people in my book, more than the people who rent hangars at the airport to store boats/cars/bikes/RVs in them. And probably on par with the people who keep a plane in a hangar, but haven't flown in a year or more, with the plane's airworthiness not being the reason for it.

Still, the total number of airplane and Schoeller campers is still a fraction of total gate. The "lawnchair" crowd is a substantial presence.

 

[Lowflynjack]

I've been going for 15 years, so not as long as some here, but a good run.

I've never had an experience like that. The volunteers are mostly awesome people, doing a way above average job in what can be a physically demanding and draining environment.

Definitely the exception to the rule. Do bad interactions happen -- absolutely. But by in large you could go years and never witness anything remotely like that at Osh. I personally can't recall any kind of really bad acting out and I certainly wouldn't stay away for the fear running into obnoxious/rude behavior.

Totally agree that this is the exception and I've only seen it with one person. When I mentioned this last time, several people immediately knew her by her nickname. Even my 'bad' interaction wasn't really that bad, just aggravating.

 

[ytodd]

As a general rule, I don't let other people's behavior dictate what I do or don't do.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Definitely the exception to the rule. Do bad interactions happen -- absolutely. But by in large you could go years and never witness anything remotely like that at Osh. I personally can't recall any kind of really bad acting out and I certainly wouldn't stay away for the fear running into obnoxious/rude behavior. I would characterize Osh as one of the last bastions of civility left in the US, especially when you consider the size of the event.

This. 2025 will be my 22nd Oshkosh and while there are going to be some stupid pilot tricks and some Karens, they are in a much smaller proportion at Oshkosh than in the rest of the world. Meanwhile, some of the awesomest people I know are at Oshkosh all the time, and I wouldn't miss it for the world.

The only "Karen" experience I can remember offhand is when I was at the aforementioned Rubber Chicken Party one year and this guy decides that he doesn't like the generator and all the lights at about 9 PM because he wants to sleep (FWIW, quiet hours start at 10:30). So he comes up and starts complaining, and when everyone blows him off, he walks over to the generator, shuts it off, and storms off. So, we laugh, start the generator back up and continue to have a great time. A little while later, he comes back and starts yelling "I DEMAND to know whose party this is!" And without missing a beat, a beautiful 20something blonde walks right up to him and says "It's mine!" (It was not.) The guy visibly deflated, turned tail and walked away, never to be seen again.

 

[418KG]

Definitely the exception to the rule. Do bad interactions happen -- absolutely. But by and large you could go years and never witness anything remotely like that at Osh. I personally can't recall any kind of really bad acting out and I certainly wouldn't stay away for the fear running into obnoxious/rude behavior. I would characterize Osh as one of the last bastions of civility left in the US, especially when you consider the size of the event.

The only negative interaction I have had with a volunteer/staff in my lengthy 2 years of attendance was my first year, I was watching landings on 36 and my foot happened to be on the burn line, and the young lady walking that section of the rope not so subtly let me know that if it was not moved immediately, she would have all couple thousand of us moved back behind the light posts.

I can remember turning to the guy sitting next to me (who was equally surprised by the aggressive response to the situation) and saying something along the lines of hoping her day got better.

But while I remember that particular instance, it never bothered me too much because it was 1 interaction out of at least hundreds of interactions with staff that have been nothing short of a joy. Including the supervisor at registration last year, who when I explained how ‘someone’ had left my wristband at home, she didn’t make me purchase a new one and mail the unused one back for a refund after I got home. I believe her exact words were “I’m not doing that” handed me a band and “welcome to Oshkosh.

Made my day.