What’s the secret trick for getting a plug into a child proof socket?

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by WannFly, Jul 14, 2018.

  1. redtail

    redtail En-Route

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    "trip"
    Only if the kid completed the circuit by sticking both ends of the paperclip into hot and either neutral or ground. Hopefully with one hand and a dry pamper. :D
    smoke-rising-from-electrical-outlet.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  2. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    Scene: Private military school in 1975. Typing class on the second floor of the admin building. No A/C, big windows open.

    Actors: 8 other students, the instructor and myself. The one and only electric typewriter in the class room. (all the rest are manual, type 1943 and green in color) 1 paper clip. Ace. Really, his first name is Ace.

    We were supposed to be doing our assignment. I looked at the electrical outlet on the wall next to my right knee. I was bored so I pulled the plug out of the outlet just enough to slip the paper clip onto the prongs. As I was doing so, the person at the electric typewriter saw what I was doing and yanked the cord so I would not complete my mission. He was about 1 nano second too late. The paper clip hit the prongs as he was yanking the cord.

    POOF-!!!! The lights go out in the building. At the same moment, Ace, sitting across the room, suddenly grabs his neck and starts squealing like Ned Beatty in Deliverance. The instructor, who had been sitting at his desk reading a book, jumps up and runs over to Ace...."What's wrong.??" he shouts. Ace leans back and in between squeals shouts "I was stung by a bee..!!!" The instructor grabs his hand and moves it. Ace has a burn on his neck right under his left ear that looks strangely like a paper clip. The instructor makes a comment, "That does not appear to be a bee sting.... go see the nurse."

    About 15 minutes later the commandant walks up the steps to the fuse box in the hallway. He opens the little door to the box and goes through every fuse, screwing each one out and replacing it with another fuse to see if the lights come back on. The lights eventually come on. Apparently the building lights and the commandants air conditioner for his office are on the same circuit.

    I made a "C" on my assignment. The electric typewriter still worked.

    I told Ace the truth about the incident the day before we graduated. He was not amused.

    Ace went on to own a chain of pool halls in Mobile, Alabama. I went on to become a colorful and well known bush pilot. And I still don't type well without auto-correct.
     
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  3. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    This is exactly the code compliant type I have in my place, and they are gradually all being replaced with the plain old child-killer type, because most of tamper-proof ones are so secure they are unusable.
     
  4. Brad Smith

    Brad Smith Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I pulled the plug from the TV set out slightly and put the antenna from my Walkie-talkie between the prongs when I was about 7 years old thinking I would get better reception. It blew up the TV and the Walkie-talkie. TV was fixed by my dad with a trip to Thriftymart’s tube tester (remember those?) to buy a couple tubes. Walkie-talkie could not be saved.
     
  5. Rushie

    Rushie Cleared for Takeoff

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    I bought a whole closet full of 100W and 60W commercial grade (last longer). I probably have enough to last the rest of my life which was my goal.
     
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  6. Rushie

    Rushie Cleared for Takeoff

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    What I've seen are like that only you have to rotate it to get the slots to line up.
     
  7. Rushie

    Rushie Cleared for Takeoff

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    I'm open minded. What do you mean by "better"? Energy efficient? Last longer? Light looks better?

    I do like the incandescent color but I also like the warmth they put out. I've spent my life including their heat contrbution in my subconscious calculations of what a room feels like given other variables like numbers of living bodies, where the thermostat is set, sunlight through windows, etc. I'm too old now to rewrite all that for cooler bulbs.

    But the thing I detested most was the delay turning on. My husband says they have improved the technology and there is no longer a delay - or "less" delay. Is this true? If "less" and it's still at all perceptible then no-go.

    Also they need to go in the regular trash. Do they still contain mercury?
     
  8. ARFlyer

    ARFlyer En-Route

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    When I was a toddler I tried to "help" my father plug in his new speakers. My mother said she saw me grab the speaker wire and shove it into the nearby outlet causing the speaker to unceremoniously explode. I still have hearing damage in my high frequency range according to the docs.
     
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  9. asicer

    asicer Pattern Altitude

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    Are you applying "simultaneous, equal pressure to both slots [to] disengage the cover plates, allowing access to the contact points"?

    https://www.tnelectric.org/2014/10/31/tamper-resistant-receptacles/
     
  10. asicer

    asicer Pattern Altitude

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    All 3, in my opinion. Although "better" is subjective, LED seems to offer more options increasing the odds they'll hit your preference.
    I agree with you on the early ones. I've since dumped those and the ones I use now have either zero or imperceptible delay.
    No mercury so they could go in the regular trash, but electronics recycling is a better option.
     
  11. Anymouse

    Anymouse En-Route

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    Total Stud Bush Pilot
    I wish I had something like that in my house. Those safety covers would be gone in a heart beat. I have the ones that asicer mentioned. The first time plugging something in to one is the worst. After that they seem to "loosen up."

    I have a nasty habit of disabling so called safety devices that are actually a nuisance whenever possible. We're talking everything from pill bottles to gas cans. Things that prevent you from bleeding I tend to leave alone.
     
  12. Anymouse

    Anymouse En-Route

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    Instant on is a thing with LEDs now. Also, dimming bulbs are available as well, however it helps if you have a dimmer that is designed to work with LED bulbs. I can't tell you what the difference is, but it seems to matter.
     
  13. redtail

    redtail En-Route

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    Haha, reminds me of what my brother's friend did when we were kids. He took his battery operated, radio controlled car and attached it to a 120 volt AC cord. He said.. "It will just take all of the power it needs".. or something like that. Well, it took a hell of a lot more than it needed, lol.
    Car was toast, kid was ok.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
  14. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    I think you are thinking of the fluorescent bulbs, those suck. The new led bulbs come on many colors defined by their temperature. Your best bet is to go to a store like Home depot where they have a display with the different colors, which go from a blue hue to a daylight color to a more yellow hue which is closer to incandescent. Note the temperature that you prefer then buy only when you know you are getting that temperature, which defines the color. They light instantly and can be dimmed although not as much as an old bulb in my experience.

    They last a lot longer than the incandescent and cost more, but the real savings is power use. A 75 watt equivalent uses like 11 watts. I have a replaced my floods in my kitchen, about 8 of them, they were 75 watts each, now they are 11 watts each, so I use the power of a little over 1 bulb for 8 now. You can't tell the difference between incandescents and the LEDs. Like I said, I'm sold on them now and won't by incandescent any longer.
     
  15. slacktide

    slacktide Line Up and Wait

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    The difference is that they dim down to 10% instead of 0%. Some have an adjustable endpoint.
     
  16. slacktide

    slacktide Line Up and Wait

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    Yes, yes, and yes. We bought our first 12 LEDs to put in the recessed lights in our cathedral ceiling. PITA bulbs that needed a 10 foot ladder to reach. Incandescents seemed to last only a few months, fluorescents sucked and lasted maybe a year. We bought the LEDs when they were very new to the market, and pretty expensive, maybe 30 bucks each? 2012-ish. I haven’t had to replace a single bulb since.

    2 Christmases ago I replaced all the bulbs in my parent’s house with LEDs, cant have the 80year old man up on a ladder changing bulbs anymore.
     
  17. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    Regular dimmer: $4.95
    LED dimmer: $29.95
    At least when I bought one at Home Depot last year.

    Oh, and make sure the LED bulb is dimmable (it will say on the package), as all of them aren't.
     
  18. redtail

    redtail En-Route

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    Speaking of LEDs.

    In the effort to "go green" here at the Tunnel, there was a big project started around five years ago. This project was to replace the fluorescent lighting inside the tunnels, that runs along the top of the wall, along the roadway.
    Over 3300 fluorescent tubes (powered by 277V AC ballast) were to be replaced with high efficiency LED lamps.
    It was looking good. A huge improvement in appearance. But the project was brought to an abrupt halt after a few hundred feet, due to EMI...
    (Electro Magnetic Interference) with the AM/FM radio antenna that runs the length on the tunnel walls, right up near the ceiling where the wall lighting is.
    http://leapfroglighting.com/led-lamps-interfering-with-radio-transmissions/

    Apparently, the design offered poor, little or no shielding. Government---Lowest bid contractor?
    Last I heard was, "the manufacturer has to redesign them"... or something like that.
    Being a Systems Controller, I'm no longer directly involved in the installation of equipment and sometimes it's really difficult to get a straight answer around here from my superiors.

    The project was supposed to be completed by the end of that year!

    "The replacement bulbs will light the tunnel in a more environmentally-friendly and energy-efficient manner, and will provide more than $250,000 in annual energy savings...
    The replacement lights should all be installed by the fall." :rolleyes:
     
  19. Dan Thomas

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    https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/just-plug-it-in/

    I installed a couple recently. They work OK; the trick is to insert the prongs at exactly the same time. Don't cock the plug left or right at all. These were Levitons; other brands might offer more resistance.
     
  20. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route

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    I see your mistake there. You were careless. You let your mom see you undertaking mischief. I bet you learned something from that and were a better miscreant going forward.
     
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  21. OkieFlyer

    OkieFlyer En-Route

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    Nor have I.

    Only childproofing I've ever seen is the plastic plugs.
     
  22. Getonit

    Getonit Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Speaking of stupid outlets, what is the trend with installing them upaide down, with ground on top?
     
  23. Axtel4

    Axtel4 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That is a safety thing from the commercial codes. The idea is If the plug happens to be partly out and something falls down on it, the object will hit earth ground before hitting the Hot side thus blowing the breaker.
     
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  24. slacktide

    slacktide Line Up and Wait

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    That’s right side up.
     
  25. Hank S

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    Then all 22 residences I've lived in, every place I've ever worked, and hotels I've stayed in most US states, were all upside down. Including my current home . . . the sixth that I've owned.
     
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  26. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    That little round insert will also pop out easily with a small screwdriver. Then no more problems.
     
  27. Artimas

    Artimas Pre-takeoff checklist

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    TRRs (Tamper Resistant Receptacles)by the Numbers

    • Each year 2,400 children suffer severe shock and burns resulting from inserting objects into the slots of electrical receptacles. That’s nearly seven children a day.
    • It is estimated that 6-12 child fatalities result from children tampering electrical receptacles.
    • Installing a TRR in a newly constructed home is only about 50₵ more than a traditional receptacle.
    • Existing homes can be retrofitted with TRRs for as little as $2.00 per outlet.
    For more information on TRRS, visit www.esfi.org.
     
  28. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    I will try this. The one in the picture is the one I have. While growing up I had my own share of curiosity that led to getting fair share of jolts from 220 v electric sockets. Am still here, donno why kids now can’t withstand their share of jolts every now and then...
     
  29. Ghery

    Ghery Final Approach

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    I agree. CFLs are OK if they are the ones that have the exposed curly element. The enclosed ones are very slow to come up to full brightness. I hate those.

    Yup. And they are supposed to meet Part 15 of the FCC Rules for radiated and conducted emissions. Clearly those did not. Even if a device is shown to be compliant if it causes harmful interference it must be shut down until it is fixed.

    Ever wondered why the Radio Shack TRS-80 disappeared from the market about October 1983? It couldn't be brought into compliance and the 1st of October 1983 was the cutoff date. A little history lesson there. Oh, and how bad was it? I had one in my house over a weekend when I worked for the Navy. You didn't watch television or listen to the radio in any service for which I had a receiver. It was on the air, everywhere.
     
  30. redtail

    redtail En-Route

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    I vaguely remember the TRS-80 but never knew it had that issue. My first PC was a Commodore-64 (loved that thing).

    The interference was pretty bad. Radio became useless.
    You're right, they had no choice but to shut them down immediately. Radio reception in the tunnel (nearly 2 miles long) has to be maintained because it is not only used for entertainment purposes, it is also used to transmit emergency broadcast info to the patrons as necessary (as well as upcoming closures and other events).
     
  31. denverpilot

    denverpilot Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Cheap LED fixtures and bulbs from China never had any real old analog engineers look at their power supplies and design the switchers to keep the noise out of the RF bands that were needed here in the US?

    Color me shocked. :)

    Bet the bid didn’t include RF testing either on that project, and no recourse, just charge the taxpayer more to fix what shouldn’t have been designed wrong to begin with.

    Our mountain top receivers in VHF and UHF bands that are fairly “protected” by power supply designers have still seen almost a 3dB increase in background noise in the last 50 years.

    FCC just hides behind Part 15 as the noise floor steadily climbs. Too busy making money off of “auctioning” off public spectrum to massive companies, rather than managing it and keeping it cleaned up, these days.
     
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  32. redtail

    redtail En-Route

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    Yep...Exactly!
    Steady toll increases across the board at the region's bridges and tunnels.

    There seems to be a pattern within this agency and similar projects/contractors. Including the contractor that got the bid to replace our 84 ventilation fans and associated electrical switchgear and another one who is in charge of our computer systems that we use to control them. The ACS (automatic control system). Nothing automatic about it YET, lol.
    We still have to set the normal and fire-ventilation patterns manually, as well as the high tension air-circuit breakers (when they don't fail on us!).

    Project started over a dozen years ago, and has been nothing but trouble! The old system (built in the 1960's was much more solid and reliable).
    I'll most likely be retired before all of the kinks and issues are resolved. Fortunately, car fires are a rare thing these days, unlike when I took this job. Back then, we were guaranteed to have a few each summer.:D

    At home, I never bothered to check the LEDs we bought from Home Depot. We rarely listen to the radio in my house, but when we do, there's no interference, so I assume they're the good ones.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  33. Art Rose

    Art Rose Pre-Flight

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    Sounds to me like you have poor management. If there's government money associated, it's par for the course. Why hire knowledgeable contract people to screen contractors track records and past performances? Why have knowledgeable folks out in the field supervising the work your contractors are supposed to be doing?

    Sounds like the typical give the contract to the lowest bid, or a buddy scenario. Award the contract, then do things like overwhelm the jobsite with safety people and regulations (to make it look official). And heck, if the finished product doesn't meet expectations, there's always more money to throw at it. Why do a job once when you can do it two or three times more? It would appear that there's no accountability here.

    Trouble is, and seriously, you're talking about life safety systems, and somebody needs to be made accountable. Contact your representatives before somebody dies. If you're worried about your job, do it tactfully and anonymously.

    Control wise, at least for what you've described, it's a relatively straightforward project. What's the problem?
     
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  34. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Never encountered a problem getting a plug into a tamper resistant outlet.
     
  35. Ghery

    Ghery Final Approach

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    Let's keep in mind that the FCC limits for unintended emissions (Part 15) from unintentional radiators (devices which generate and use RF, but don't need to radiate it in order to function) are designed to provide protection assuming that one device is generating the emission. At the international level, CISPR 22 (withdrawn by the IEC last year) and CISPR 32 (replaces CISPR 22 for ITE and CISPR 13 for broadcast receivers) has limits derived for the same purpose, provide a limit for a single piece of equipment (or installation). Proliferation of these devices is not part of the model used for generating the limits. CISPR TR 16-4-4 provides a process for coming up with limits where they don't already exist.

    A 3 dB increase in 50 years isn't bad. Although you probably had a decrease in noise in the 1980s as devices that were sold prior to the FCC limits going into effect, first on 1 October 1981 for products that weren't on the market as of that date and second on 1 October 1983 when products that were already on the market as of 1 October 1981 had to be brought into compliance or removed from the market. I would suspect that as the noisier devices died, or were replaced with more capable products the overall noise level decreased and has only recently become an issue again due to the larger number of RF generating devices. But, then, I could be wrong.

    Trying to change the limits because of the large number of devices will be a very difficult thing to sell to industry. Reducing emissions limits further will cost money (or so industry will claim) and that will raise prices, reduce profits and all sorts of other ills. Given that the committees that write the rules are heavily populated with people sent by their employers (industry) with an agenda of protecting their employer from what they see as a needless additional expense, good luck. I know, I used to be one of them. Now that I'm retired from industry (and am the Chair of CISPR Subcommittee I, the SC that owns CISPR 32) I can take a more open view of the situation. But, to try and sell tighter limits will require a bunch of data that we (CISPR) don't have. If you want to petition the FCC to tighten their limits, just submit a Request for Rulemaking and see where that goes. If it goes anywhere, it will take years. The federal government's process is slow (and that's not always a bad thing). I know you'll get pushback from the Information Technology Industry Council (ITI) through their EMC committee (TC-5). I chaired that from 1999 until I retired from Intel in 2015 and their big thing is to protect industry. Their predecessor (CBEMA ESC-5) did the study and wrote the report that served as the basis for the FCC's addition of Subpart J to Part 15 in the late 1970s, so they date way back and have great credibility with the FCC.
     
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  36. denverpilot

    denverpilot Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Well, it ain’t great. :)

    The very last thing I’d be spending time on would be that bureaucratic mess... we just live with the noise.

    The random noisemakers aren’t going away anytime soon, and nobody hunts noisemakers unless they’re hitting a public safety frequency in use in the area.

    PS just trunks and multi-sites the hell out of everything since they have billions to spend on such things. More receiver sites, no apparent problem.

    On ours, for years we had to get people to stop turning the shared pre-amp on the combiner back on thinking they were “helping” after the noise went up. At the time, the site management was lax and nobody quite knew who owned the thing, so we’d disable it, and someone else would ignore the note about why not to turn it back on, and re-enable it without doing any noise floor testing. Ha.

    Was hilarious. Finally someone ripped it physically out to stop the back and forth. :)
     
  37. Ken Ibold

    Ken Ibold Final Approach

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    There are some funky new designs for outlets. My son just moved into an apartment where the outlets under the windows will not accept a two prong plug, but easily accept a grounded plug.
     
  38. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas En-Route

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    Aha! Now i know why all the receptacles in the house we just bought are all "upside down." I was going to pull them all out and invert them, but now I will leave them as they are. It makes sense to have them that way, especially any plugs around metalworking machinery like my lathe or drill press. Swarf has a way of landing in such places.
     
  39. murphey

    murphey Final Approach

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    Unscrew the cover, replace with the standard 39 cent covers from any hardware store.
     
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  40. slacktide

    slacktide Line Up and Wait

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    I'm sure that's true. Just because something is common, does not mean that it is correct. The duplex receptacle dimensional standard is defined by ANSI NEMA WD 6 (USA) and IEC 60906-2 (International). They are depicted with the ground up in both specifications. Additionally, the Underwriters Lab safety standard for receptacles is UL 498. In this document, it is also shown with the ground up. One place you just about ALWAYS see them installed correctly is in hospitals.

    Ref. Figure 15-5, page 10 of the PDF.

    https://www.nema.org/Standards/Comp...n-Locking Plugs and Receptacles - Excerpt.pdf