Was I a dick?

alfadog

alfadog

Final Approach
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alfadog
So yesterday I was supposed to fly from 3 PM - 5 PM in the Cirrus. Working on my CPL. It is a one hour drive for me each way from home to the airport. I get a text before I leave to show up at 3:30. So now my time is cut to 1.5 hours. Then I get there and have to wait at least 20 minutes while the owner takes care of some business that involves my instructor. So now I have maybe one hour left. As we are preflighting, the owner comes out and says he is flying the airplane at 5 PM and his student will be ready to go at that time. The clear implication is to get the plane back by 5 PM. So we preflight the airplane and I try to start it per the CFII's instructions. It floods and we dick around and finally get it started. Taxi out and the FBO has a big Gulfstream blocking the ramp. We sit idling for a bit and then give up and shut down. Finally, the jet is moved and now it is 4:40 PM or so. We put 0.2 on the Hobbs and, obviously, nothing on the flight timer. The CFII says we can do couple laps of the pattern. I demur and say let's just push it back in the hole. I say "you aren't going to charge me for this, are you?" Not his call. The owner comes out and acts like I am a dick for asking but did not charge me.
 
No

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No, and if that happens again I would find a different location to do your training. The fact that he gave more care for his flight at 5pm then with your flight is unfair and unprofessional.

Also you should have done the circuits because I was told as long as you take off you can count the Hobbs time in your total time.
 
No and I'd tell him he owes me for the wasted trip to and from the airport. If he doesn't like it, I'd tell him to shove it up his.....
 
Mostly no. Until posting it.

The situation is unfortunate and the owner seems to think his schedule with the other student is more important than yours. How far does the other student drive to that airport? What if it's 1+05 instead of only 1? We don't know.

But it seems he agreed to not charge you, per your request.

Do you think the CFI will be paid for his time?
 
One time one of the places that I used to fly at gave me a 30 minute credit without my asking on my next flight because when I preflighted the plane, I found a minor yet grounding item and they didn’t have anyone available to correct it on the weekend.

That’s how you run a business.

No you were not a dick.
 
No not a dick. But is this an isolated incident or have you had similar but not as severe examples of wasting time???
 
Rgbeard said:
No, but shame on you for not stopping the snowball sooner, IMO.
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There was no snowball to stop. Stuff happens. OP acted appropriately. No shame on him at all.
 
I have no problem generally with the school or the owner. They do seem a bit unprofessional when it comes to scheduling and spending money on mx. Last year, the owner made me a $50 future credit because of messed up scheduling. I did not bother to cash that in when I started up again with them. I had two flights cancelled a few weeks ago because the CFII was sick. They have four CFII's and no accommodation was offered to get me with someone else. The owner kept the Cirrus down for all of last week and cancelled two of my flights because he did not want to spend money on the 100-hr at a shop when his A&P got stuck up north working on a jet or something. He was cranky yesterday because he had to go with the shop and spend a lot on that 100-hr.
 
Ravioli said:
Mostly no. Until posting it.

The situation is unfortunate and the owner seems to think his schedule with the other student is more important than yours. How far does the other student drive to that airport? What if it's 1+05 instead of only 1? We don't know.

But it seems he agreed to not charge you, per your request.

Do you think the CFI will be paid for his time?
Click to expand...

I am a dick for posting this? Just for conversation and relating a story. That is what we do here, no? I did not name the school or even the airport. The CFII said he was not going to charge for his time. School rate would have been $11; what does he get out of that, $5 or $6. I told him I owe him lunch and he said we will celebrate when I pass the CPL. Nice guy, not the one who called in sick.
 
Witmo said:
There was no snowball to stop. Stuff happens. OP acted appropriately. No shame on him at all.
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Exactly. When we got the preflight done, I might have had just under an hour left. I had already told the CFII that we could just do pattern work with that time. By the time we could actually get on a taxiway, it was not worth the effort to me, to spend well over $100 to go around once or twice and feel rushed doing it.
 
benyflyguy said:
No not a dick. But is this an isolated incident or have you had similar but not as severe examples of wasting time???
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Not isolated, see #13 above, but I am going to stick with them for the CPL.
 
Witmo said:
There was no snowball to stop. Stuff happens. OP acted appropriately. No shame on him at all.
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To *ME*, and only me, I guess. It was a snowball.

I would have had concerns at the 3:30 call, and believe I would have canceled, and gone home after the 20-minute delay.

Preflight, taxi and ground delays eat up far too much time, and the pending 5pm drop-dead-time would have been more than I wanted to handle.

I guess I have a lower tolerance for such stuff. Just me.
 
The owner is the Richard. If you are in the business of renting aircraft your use comes behind the paying customers.

Still, you accepted the plane 50 minutes late, so you accepted that, and the Gulfstream's not his problem. It wasn't improper for you to ask, however.
 
flyingron said:
The owner is the Richard. If you are in the business of renting aircraft your use comes behind the paying customers.
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My thoughts exactly. The owner of a leaseback should realize that it’s not solely his or her airplane anymore. I see nothing wrong with what you did. I wouldn’t want to pay for that either.
 
alfadog said:
So yesterday I was supposed to fly from 3 PM - 5 PM in the Cirrus. Working on my CPL. It is a one hour drive for me each way from home to the airport. I get a text before I leave to show up at 3:30. So now my time is cut to 1.5 hours. Then I get there and have to wait at least 20 minutes while the owner takes care of some business that involves my instructor. So now I have maybe one hour left. As we are preflighting, the owner comes out and says he is flying the airplane at 5 PM and his student will be ready to go at that time. The clear implication is to get the plane back by 5 PM. So we preflight the airplane and I try to start it per the CFII's instructions. It floods and we dick around and finally get it started. Taxi out and the FBO has a big Gulfstream blocking the ramp. We sit idling for a bit and then give up and shut down. Finally, the jet is moved and now it is 4:40 PM or so. We put 0.2 on the Hobbs and, obviously, nothing on the flight timer. The CFII says we can do couple laps of the pattern. I demur and say let's just push it back in the hole. I say "you aren't going to charge me for this, are you?" Not his call. The owner comes out and acts like I am a dick for asking but did not charge me.
Click to expand...

No. Sounds like the owner may be a bit of a Ricardo Cabeza though
 
alfadog said:
I am a dick for posting this? Just for conversation and relating a story. That is what we do here, no? I did not name the school or even the airport. The CFII said he was not going to charge for his time. School rate would have been $11; what does he get out of that, $5 or $6. I told him I owe him lunch and he said we will celebrate when I pass the CPL. Nice guy, not the one who called in sick.
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You weren’t a Richard for requesting no charge, you weren’t a Richard for posting, but now you are for arguing!!! Lol
 
alfadog said:
I am a dick for posting this?
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IIRC, I said mostly no, meaning it was partially dickish to post this. which is how maybe another member or two read it.

Now then, the whole story of what happened, how it was handled, and other advisories could have occurred without trying to determine who the dick in the situation was, or even if there was a dick in the situation.

I know I'm a dick for pointing that out. But, what the ****... in this kinder gentler PoA I'm surprised your thread wasn't locked based on the title alone.
 
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Normally if a person has to ask then the answer is “yes”.

I think in this case that’s not true. Just normal pilot problems. And I think you made a good decision in parking the plane. Flying while feeling rushed isn’t fun. And it’s potentially dangerous.
 
woodchucker said:
Normally if a person has to ask then the answer is “yes”.
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I was once told by a general manager that a lack of response to a question means “no”.

So I started rephrasing my questions, and always got what I wanted. :)
 
Unless we had a significant amount of ground time, I've only had CFIs charge me by however many hours go in the logbook.

I wouldn't pay for instruction I didn't get.
 
Ravioli said:
IIRC, I said mostly no, meaning it was partially dickish to post this. which is how maybe another member or two read it.

Now then, the whole story of what happened, how it was handled, and other advisories could have occurred without trying to determine who the dick in the situation was, or even if there was a dick in the situation.

I know I'm a dick for pointing that out. But, what the ****... in this kinder gentler PoA I'm surprised your thread wasn't locked based on the title alone.
Click to expand...
Maybe this is the standard that’s used for words....
 
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