USAF has a pilot shortage

Interesting proposal... BUT.....


By 2021, drones will by doing 95% of the air work.... IMHO..
 
The military seems to know how to address a labor shortage. I wonder why the airlines haven't figured this out. 235 years later, Adam Smith STILL right!
 
F15 Trainer - You ready to go Flyboy?

Me - HELLLSSSS YEAH!!! Where do I put my wheelchair?

F15 Trainer - What the f*/*-!!! Are we seriously hurting that bad for pilots?
 
Jeez, can you imagine the transition from a fighter jock to a drone operator? 153 pilots had their ride taken away, and were put in the couch as a drone-patrol op. Talk about losing incentive.
 
Stop taking entire classes and putting them in UAVs and you might not have a pilot shortage anymore. Plus, reduce staff positions and get those guys back into cockpits. Stop paying them bonuses though. That money should go to Army Aviators. :D
 
fellas fellas. Simmer down. There is no pilot shortage in the AF. The fighter pilot shortage that gets alluded to frequently really isn't a shortage at all. The thing is, there's a plethora of 11F (AFSC for fighter pilot) STAFF BILLETS that currently go unfilled or filled by 11M (mobility) or 11B (bomber) coded pilots. There are NO SHORTAGE OF PILOTS to fill fighter cockpits. As a matter of fact, the FTU (schoolhouse) production is limited because there's nowhere to send those people to go fly. They're not merely going to ramp up production just so they can fill staff billets with inexperienced guys. This is of course a side effect of the UAV plus up that decimated the late 00 fighter year groups.

So to recap. The title of the article should have been edited to read "USAF has pilot shortage.... to go fill desk jobs"

Sorry. No F-xx for you all I'm afraid...

Signed,
Sincerely,
A prior bomber guy who wanted to fly fighters but no musical chairs were available when my turn at spinning the wheel came up.
 
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hindsight2020 said:
fellas fellas. Simmer down. There is no pilot shortage in the AF. The fighter pilot shortage that gets alluded to frequently really isn't a shortage at all. The thing is, there's a plethora of 11F (AFSC for fighter pilot) STAFF BILLETS that currently go unfilled or filled by 11M (mobility) or 11B (bomber) coded pilots. There are NO SHORTAGE OF PILOTS to fill fighter cockpits. As a matter of fact, the FTU (schoolhouse) production is limited because there's nowhere to send those people to go fly.

So to recap. The title of the article should have been edited to read "USAF has pilot shortage.... to go fill desk jobs"

Sorry. No F-xx for you all I'm afraid...
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Exactly. Just like the other services (except Army) too many guys needed in staff billets.

High washout rate doesn't help either.
 
docmirror said:
Jeez, can you imagine the transition from a fighter jock to a drone operator? 153 pilots had their ride taken away, and were put in the couch as a drone-patrol op. Talk about losing incentive.
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Well I guess that if it was "time" to step down anyway truly flying a desk might beat figuratively flying one:lol:
 
Skylane81E said:
Well I guess that if it was "time" to step down anyway truly flying a desk might beat figuratively flying one:lol:
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Jest aside, it's not a bad assignment for a greyback fighter guy with a shot back, aside from the craphole locations these UAV units are in. But to clip a young 11(x) guy's wings straight out the pilot training graduation is just terrible. A 10 year commitment on top of that and that's just bait and switch. That's effectively what happened in the late 00's and the repercussions are seen now with this supposed "fighter pilot shortage".

Fortunately, the pipeline has closed to send guys to the remote control box straight out pilot training. The UAV native training pipeline is now up and running and I hear some of the guys originally shafted by the UAV bait and switch are being allowed to cross train back to a manned cockpit.
 
hindsight2020 said:
fellas fellas. Simmer down. There is no pilot shortage in the AF. The fighter pilot shortage that gets alluded to frequently really isn't a shortage at all. The thing is, there's a plethora of 11F (AFSC for fighter pilot) STAFF BILLETS that currently go unfilled or filled by 11M (mobility) or 11B (bomber) coded pilots. There are NO SHORTAGE OF PILOTS to fill fighter cockpits. As a matter of fact, the FTU (schoolhouse) production is limited because there's nowhere to send those people to go fly. They're not merely going to ramp up production just so they can fill staff billets with inexperienced guys. This is of course a side effect of the UAV plus up that decimated the late 00 fighter year groups.

So to recap. The title of the article should have been edited to read "USAF has pilot shortage.... to go fill desk jobs"

Sorry. No F-xx for you all I'm afraid...

Signed,
Sincerely,
A prior bomber guy who wanted to fly fighters but no musical chairs were available when my turn at spinning the wheel came up.
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Well....not exactly. At least not in the current AF.

If the article is true at all, this would be one of the most maddening and pathetic cases of personnel mis-management I have seen in the military.

In the last few years for the USAF, there really hasn't been a shortage of anyone, fighter pilot or not. The AF has been hit harder than any other service with regards to downsizing and in the last couple years, they have been forcing a TON of officers (many of them pilots) out. Guys with good records and 15/16 years of service - no retirement for you - see ya!

And now they are claiming a shortage....

I think the article might be a matter of AF leadership trying to posture to get people back. During most of the Iraq/Afghanistan ops, AF leadership did an absolutely abysmal job of marketing their value to the DoD and thus they were the first service to get hit with downsizing/cuts when the time came.
 
Heard from a buddy they are offering the "experienced" guys 26,000 dollars to sign on for another 10 years to keep the ratio of experienced to newbies the same.
 
That wouldn't surprise me at all. On the Navy side, we have an aviation department head bonus.....basically, if you take it, you are obligated for department head orders (standard O-4/LCDR level sea tour in aviation) and it tacks on 5 extra years to your initial obligation (the one you incurred when you earned your wings). It varies by demand, and now by community, but in mine (VFA / F/A-18), it is $25,000/year for a total of 5 years. So not too shabby. Some other communities had their numbers cut to like 10-15k per year. I'm guessing the AF has something similar. You are only eligible for it right about the time your initial 8 year obligation ends (so roughly the 10 year mark for most people).....in other words it is a tool for the Navy to convince people to stay in rather than get out and fly for the airlines or something.
 
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The Air Force hasn't had a real pilot shortage since 1973. The poster above who said there are empty pilot staff slots, not empty cockpits, is correct.

I perhaps doesn't help that you can be good enough to be a 47 year old Wing Commander, pass the fitness test even with a shoulder injury, and get fired because your waist is one inch too big.
 
JimNtexas said:
I perhaps doesn't help that you can be good enough to be a 47 year old Wing Commander, pass the fitness test even with a shoulder injury, and get fired because your waist is one inch too big.
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He didn't seem too heartbroken. 25 years in so he is good on retirement, you'll see him in the right seat of a Delta 737 before the year is over. 2 years from now, his disability with the VA will be through and he'll be one of the 'triple dippers'.
 
Fearless Tower said:
and in the last couple years, they have been forcing a TON of officers (many of them pilots) out. Guys with good records and 15/16 years of service - no retirement for you - see ya!
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Yep, this happened to a friend of mine. 15 years in, fully expecting to stay until retirement at 20 like virtually everybody else in previous years who made it that far. Got notified he was no longer needed. No retirement for you, hah hah, tricked you!

Needless to say, when talking to younger folks, it's pretty hard to recommend the Air Force as a career when they're pulling crap like that, and the other examples like in this thread. I forecast some pretty major personnel problems in the very near future. And they'd be well deserved.
 
RussR said:
Yep, this happened to a friend of mine. 15 years in, fully expecting to stay until retirement at 20 like virtually everybody else in previous years who made it that far. Got notified he was no longer needed. No retirement for you, hah hah, tricked you!

Needless to say, when talking to younger folks, it's pretty hard to recommend the Air Force as a career when they're pulling crap like that, and the other examples like in this thread. I forecast some pretty major personnel problems in the very near future. And they'd be well deserved.
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Up or out business, just like anywhere else. If you don't have the paper to screen for your next career milestone, then you just didn't make the cut....again, like any other line of work. The military doesn't owe anyone retirement; it is not a welfare program. Just my .02
 
35 AoA said:
Up or out business, just like anywhere else. If you don't have the paper to screen for your next career milestone, then you just didn't make the cut....again, like any other line of work. The military doesn't owe anyone retirement; it is not a welfare program. Just my .02
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Except that the difference between the Navy and Air Force is that if you don't make O5, the Navy will still keep you around until 20 because the Navy has been able to justify their demand for field grade staff officers.

The AF used to be that way, but because the AF has been hit harder than the others by cuts, they have been forced to let the O4s go (AF leadership failed to justify much of their requirements during Iraq/Afghanistan). That is why I say this alleged 'shortage' is entirely self induced.
 
35 AoA said:
Up or out business, just like anywhere else. If you don't have the paper to screen for your next career milestone, then you just didn't make the cut....again, like any other line of work. The military doesn't owe anyone retirement; it is not a welfare program. Just my .02
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Really? "Like any other line of work"? So, working at McDonalds, if you don't make the cut to get promoted from fry cook to cashier, they fire you? If a salesman at a major retailer, if you don't get picked for promotion to department manager, you get fired? A mid-level employee at pretty much any company HAS to get promoted or be fired? Actually, I'd say that the "up or out" aspect of the military is completely UNLIKE any other line of work.

But yes, as silly as it is, military members know this going in. However, in the Air Force, for a long, long time, if you made Major, you were virtually guaranteed to be "continued" to retirement even if you didn't get promoted any further. There was a "continuation board" every year, but it was mostly a formality, unless you had some glaring problem or punitive action in your records, you got continued. It was the de facto standard. But then a couple of years ago, because the Air Force couldn't manage its personnel levels properly, they told a whole ton of people with over 15 years of service, "hey, we don't want you anymore". There were also some fairly significant procedural and policy errors they made while doing this, I understand there is or was a court case pending.

Now, keep in mind, these weren't necessarily the "dregs" of the Major rank. They were just anybody who missed the cutoff for Lt Col - even if they were the very next name on the list. Valuable, highly trained officers, devoted 15 years to their country, a history-based and perfectly reasonable expectation that they'd be allowed to stay in until retirement, and all of a sudden, poof, your career's gone, good luck finding a job!

While it may have been technically perfectly legit, it's no way to gain anybody's continuing devotion to the service, or inspire new members to join. And how many younger officers said "holy crap, I don't want that to happen to me" and decided to run away once they'd served their commitment? A few that I talked to did.


Fearless Tower said:
Except that the difference between the Navy and Air Force is that if you don't make O5, the Navy will still keep you around until 20 because the Navy has been able to justify their demand for field grade staff officers.
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Exactly. Shortsighted to get rid of the large cadre of over-15 year Majors. Lots of experience and knowledge to tap into there, shame to throw it away and create ill will as well.
 
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The retirement thing is about lack of money. In 2010 I was a year out from retirement and sitting in Afghanistan reading a Stars & Stripes article on said topic. DoD was brainstorming ways to save personnel costs with either a 30 yr retirement or some kind of 401 K. One guy stated to the effect that we're paying people money to retire at 38 yrs old and then they're getting out and going right into fulltime employment. Yep, thats is the truth. A lot of times we roll right into a Govt job doing the same thing we just did in the military but yet at a higher pay rate. I've talked to several other military members of different countries and they said their retirement program doesn't start until after 60. Their country just can't afford that kind of setup that we have. Heck, people I work with now didn't even realize I collect retirement. They too thought you'd have to be in your 60s to get it. It's a good system but it and VA benefits are killing the budget.

I was incredibly fortunate to be in Army Aviation during the years I was in. After 9/11 job security was good and promotions were up. Right now I know people who are getting two time Passover for promotion and being forced out. The Army is weeding the herd that we built after the war. That's what happens after war. You get forced out or if you're lucky they'll let you reclass into another MOS.

I have friends barely getting their semi annual flying mins right now. I have friends in civilian DoD flying jobs who are being furloughed and taking a 20 % pay cut. The flying hours for students at Ft Ruckef have been cut in favor of sim time. Just heard recently that the instrument program might be conducted entirely in the sim! No flying on Fridays because they can't afford to pay the DoD controllers in the tower. It is definitely not a good time to be in Army Aviation right now. That is if you can even get in. Acceptance rates right now are around 40 %. Just after 9/11 those rates were pushing over 90 %!

So if you're able to put up with 20 yrs of crap and retire these days you're pretty fortunate. I don't see this system lasting much longer though. Sometimes I wonder if even my retirement check is in danger of being cut. I'm prepared for it but it won't be easy. My current gig (EMS) doesn't pay much but I'll survive.
 
RussR said:
Really? "Like any other line of work"? So, working at McDonalds, if you don't make the cut to get promoted from fry cook to cashier, they fire you? If a salesman at a major retailer, if you don't get picked for promotion to department manager, you get fired? A mid-level employee at pretty much any company HAS to get promoted or be fired? Actually, I'd say that the "up or out" aspect of the military is completely UNLIKE any other line of work.
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I am talking about other professional careers, not flipping burgers or being a salesman. My main point wasn't that it isn't a waste on a personal level......absolutely, that would suck to get passed over for O-5 if you had planned to retire, and then suddenly be ineligible for retirement. The point I am trying to make is that the military isn't there to serve someone's personal retirement program.....if they don't need X amount of mid level officers, then they are free to get rid of them. It is a business just like any other....ok maybe not like any other, but a business with manning and budget concerns all the same.

Also, the Navy has started to do the same thing. Without prior enlisted service, you will not make 20 years as an O-4 that was passed over for O-5. That all being said, there are still options. Some guys may not screen for command, but they still can go to other types of billets (test, non-flying, etc) and then screen for O-5. Others get off active duty, transfer to the reserves, and then continue on to O-5 and beyond. Obviously in that scenario, the retirement program is a little different, but there are options.
 
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