Upgrading to a faster plane

OK, let's say you must be at your destination office or workplace in time for a 12-noon luncheon appointment. What time will you need to leave your driveway in order to be at the appointment by noon in the 235? How much earlier if you keep the 235?

The trip, weather permitting will be made 24 times a year or 12 round trips.
 
OK, let's say you must be at your destination office or workplace in time for a 12-noon luncheon appointment. What time will you need to leave your driveway in order to be at the appointment by noon in the 235? How much earlier if you keep the 235?

That's cute Wayne. Pretending owning a plane is practical or a function of practicality. I could take a 737 24 times a year and it would be cheaper than my Bonanza.
 
Your budget puts a crimp on your wants. I'd say. Comanche, 210 or early Bo are about the only choices. I started with a slow airplane (172) and worked my way up. Little faster every time. Kept most of them on way up though. I have a fast airplane now and like it very much. Have had the retracts. They really raise the cost of owning. Annual, insurance and maintenance. I prefer a fast welded down gear airplane. My fast airplane is great but still love the stationair.

I entertained the idea of the Cherokee 300..


Briefly..
 
Do you see any reference to money in the question?

Or maybe I should remind you that I'm the guy who flew the 367 nm trip to/from Dallas (almost) weekly for 5 years in numerous planes ranging from a 172 to a 602P Aerostar?

That's cute Wayne. Pretending owning a plane is practical or a function of practicality. I could take a 737 24 times a year and it would be cheaper than my Bonanza.
 
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Do you see any reference to money in the question?

Or maybe I should remind you that I'm the guy who flew the 367 nm trip to/from Dallas (almost) weekly for 5 years in numerous planes ranging from a 172 to a 602P Aerostar?

Nah, but why bring practical matters into the equation if not for $? Guy wants to spend his money on a faster rig. Who are we to talk him out of it or talk sense into him? :D
 
I'll pm you in a little bit!!

Just make sure there's plenty of duct tape on the V-Tail and make sure you're strapped in tight for the taxi, you could get whiplash when he releases the brakes. Don't be alarmed when the engine catches and goes straight to 2500 RPM. His username is "docmirror" want to make sure he holds no degrees above a masters degree, anything else is cutting it too close.
 
Just make sure there's plenty of duct tape on the V-Tail and make sure you're strapped in tight for the taxi, you could get whiplash when he releases the brakes. Don't be alarmed when the engine catches and goes straight to 2500 RPM. His username is "docmirror" want to make sure he holds no degrees above a masters degree, anything else is cutting it too close.

Hehe. :D

Checking that the V-tail isn't missing every 5 minutes will make good practice for his IFR scan duties, whatever airplane he ends up with.

I love my S, but nothing flies sweeter than the lightweight E-series Bos. If I could retrofit piano keys into mine, I think I would do it.
 
I polished my piano keys in fall. I've got to get on it one more time. I do like the light weight of the E series airframes, but they have some detractors as well. My biggest gripe is the unsafe, unfriendly, and unintuitive fuel system. It was the low point in Bonanza design.

Spike has a newer version but I don't know what year. That will be more like what the OP is looking at. Maybe Spike's is a J or K?
 
Spike has a V35A IIRC. OP isn't going to find a V35 for 60k, unless it's missing an engine. Or its tail has already fallen off.
 
When his boss who set the $60k purchase-price limit figures out that the total round-trip travel time saved by the purchasing the fancy V-tail airplane is only ~1.5 hours per month from each ~7.X hour trip, he better have a better explanation that I've heard so far. "Hell, you waste more time than that each week just reading on the toilet!" :D

Nah, but why bring practical matters into the equation if not for $? Guy wants to spend his money on a faster rig. Who are we to talk him out of it or talk sense into him? :D
 
OP if you don't mind me asking how much was your 235?

Also have you looked at bellancas? Theres a few of them in your price range. If you are sticking to bonanza maybe try looking at debonairs.
 
OP if you don't mind me asking how much was your 235?

Also have you looked at bellancas? Theres a few of them in your price range. If you are sticking to bonanza maybe try looking at debonairs.

In the 40k range.

A deb is one on my list already
 
Nice solid Vikings can be had in the 45-55K range. Just google Bellanca Vikings for sale.

Wow, they seem to fit my exact wants/needs.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail...973/Bellanca/17-31A+Super+Viking/1600441.html

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail...971/Bellanca/17-30A+Super+Viking/1586653.html

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail...978/Bellanca/17-30A+Super+Viking/1631001.html <----fav!


How the hell did I miss these planes? Ive never heard about them until now? The rock is lifted......
 
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snip...


I just want a faster plane, 130kts isnt enough anymore.



One of the nice benefits of dialing back for the first few hundred hours and get used to a slower than capable speed. Then, when you feel the need for more speed, simply go higher and/or use more power.

I love the power/speed range on the T182. I can dial it back to 100kts at 8 gph to 160kts at 14 gph at 20kft. Sure, it is not the most efficient aircraft. But, it has a lot of different capability in one, and fixed gear. Unfortunately, this one is out of your price range.
 
I've found a new player to scout... Bellanca super Viking. Seriously considering it, Comanche is out and the BSV is in.

The things are fast and look sexy as hell, wood wings are super strong so I can get over that. Useful of around 1200lbs... Perfect for my mission it seems.
 
I've found a new player to scout... Bellanca super Viking. Seriously considering it, Comanche is out and the BSV is in.

The things are fast and look sexy as hell, wood wings are super strong so I can get over that. Useful of around 1200lbs... Perfect for my mission it seems.

I think useful load is around 1000lbs
 
I've found a new player to scout... Bellanca super Viking. Seriously considering it, Comanche is out and the BSV is in.

The things are fast and look sexy as hell, wood wings are super strong so I can get over that. Useful of around 1200lbs... Perfect for my mission it seems.

For the hp, they are slow, they look like a box and they are made from plywood. Cheap to buy, hard to sell. Given that your 235 couldn't keep your attention for more than a year, you may want to keep resellability in mind.

Why is the Comanche 'out' ? Given your budget and your 'wants', it would seem the #1 choice.
 
First disclaimer, I'm not an expert by any stretch but I've been in all the models of planes you are considering.

The Bo's and Debs are nice planes very stout. I think some of the more "affordably priced Bo's and Deb's have a 1500 hr TBO engine and with the older engines ( I think its a 235hp) I don't think you will see the speed you want. That said they are indeed wonderful planes.

The Comanche, Wow now that is a plane. Robust like the Bos, the 250s easily have the speed you want or need and the fuel burn is reasonable about 12gph. Thy are roomy and the back seat is excpetionally comfortable. One factor that may be of importance is that many have a left hand radio stack as do many of the older Bos. If you can find one with the center stack they will demand a premium.

The Viking, Nice plane, certainly has the speed you want. From my perspective the downside is that they are realativly cramped and not all that comfortable, but again thats just my opinion. I'd also say that the Viking has a bit more of a niche market than do the Bos and Comanche's thus making them a more difficult resale in a depressed market.

The Viking I've been in was not a member of this board but, I have flown in Bonanzas, Debs and Comanche's belonging to POAers All very well kept and comfortable. Someone above posted a link to EdFred's Comanche and I will tell you it is an awesome plane to fly with a very nice panel. IIRC his asking price is within your budget, if it were in mine I'd be all over it.

One final thought. You can pretty much find an A&P anywhere that can work on a Bo or Comanche, not sure about a Viking. Then again I'm not saying that a Viking needs " special care" I've been told that by a viking owner but don't know whether that is accurate or not.
 
you need/want a cramped, slow, gas hog ?

Well, honestly I wasn't aware that they were cramped. The fuel burn is slightly more than my 235 and they are getting like 170kts, that's fast compared to my plane.

They can't be smaller than a Cherokee, can they?
 
Well, honestly I wasn't aware that they were cramped. The fuel burn is slightly more than my 235 and they are getting like 170kts, that's fast compared to my plane.

They can't be smaller than a Cherokee, can they?
Sit in one. I think so.

they are painfully slow for the fuel burn. Hang 300hp on a comanche or bo and think how fast it would go. And they are comfortable.
 
I would lean towards a Comanche 250/260 or later V-tail Bonanza, preferably a V35B with a IO-550 conversion. They are pretty common, as many have been upgraded. Nothing wrong with the IO-520 though.

The Comanches will be the better values for cost/performance in general.

If you want info on Vikings, contact Witmer Aviation in Pottstown, PA. They are the east coast Bellanca gurus and can tell you what to look for and who has nice ones for sale. They would also be the place I'd go for a pre-buy inspection. I don't know where you are located, however, so that may not be convenient.
 
Guy, you're gonna need an instrument rating. Stay with the 235 through that. Then you can let your self professed "real money" checkbook from being a safety guy, get you a capable bird. Not that the 235 isn't.

Get it rigged, You can get 132 knots out of it at 8,000. I can see if you're getting 120....it's not quite right.

Why? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why not do the IR in the plane he plans to fly going forward?
 
The specialist for BSVs in the US is Miller flying service in Plainview TX. There are other shops of course, but these people have the experts on staff to make every piece of every wing Bellanca ever made. Any BSV purchase should include a PPI by Miller.

The BSV before 1974 will never, ever meet it's book speed, or fuel burn numbers. I don't know what they did to the test planes to make those numbers but they are complete fabrications. The late 1974 redesign of the baffles, cowl, and gear/gear door bring the speeds up better, but making book value is still iffy. For 300HP, and a clean wing the plane should be going +200MPH. The hottest BSVs made of course are the turbo ships. They seem to benefit a lot from getting up high and cruising in the low flight levels.

They are cramped inside, no matter how you slice it, even tighter to me than most Mooneys, but it may be due to the glare shield which seems massive and intrudes into the cabin quite a bit. Makes the windscreen seem small. Visibility is marginal, and rear seats are pretty much for kids, or to torture normal size adults.

People who own BSVs love them. They fly like fighter jets, and require good pilot discipline. The glide on the BSV is like a set of keys with the engine turned off, so don't lose an engine. There are two basic engine choices, a Conti or a Lyc, of 295 or 300HP. The Conti is a lot more prevalent.

They usually came with wild, bright color interiors in velour, checkers or even paisley. many have been repl with something a bit tamer. It's a good flying ship, requiring somewhat more detailed mx than your run of the mill Bo, or Comanche, or 210. The OP living in TX would be spending plenty of quality time in Plainview every few years for the loving touch that BSVs require. The plane should always be hangered when not in use due to the effects of mother nature on the wood, although if it has been taken care of well, it will last a long time.
 
Don't bet anything on a naturally aspirated viking doing 170kts unless it is one of the few with an io550, or it is in a descent. Fly all the planes (Comanche, Bo, Viking) you're considering before you think you have made any decision. They all fly different.
 
Well, honestly I wasn't aware that they were cramped. The fuel burn is slightly more than my 235 and they are getting like 170kts, that's fast compared to my plane.

They can't be smaller than a Cherokee, can they?

I have never owned a Super Viking, so take this for what it's worth, but:

For the fuel burn of a Viking, you can get about the same speed in a Lance, with about the same interior space as my first apartment, or;

For the interior space of Viking you can get a Mooney and go just as fast with 2/3rds the horsepower, 2/3rds the number of cylinders, and 3/4ths the fuel burn, or;

For the same speed you can get less fuel burn and more space with a Bonanza or Comanche.

The Viking seems to have the space of a Mooney combined with the efficiency of a Lance, plus all the issues of fabric and a wood wing.
 
You nailed it. Most airplanes are a compromise. The designer prioritizes some qualities over others. The Viking is unique in that it does not compromise. It manages to be cramped, slow, thirsty, noisy, and a maintenance oddball, all in one convenient package.

There are no bargains in a GA. The market is very efficient at assigning value. And you can't give away a Viking.
 
You nailed it. Most airplanes are a compromise. The designer prioritizes some qualities over others. The Viking is unique in that it does not compromise. It manages to be cramped, slow, thirsty, noisy, and a maintenance oddball, all in one convenient package.

There are no bargains in a GA. The market is very efficient at assigning value. And you can't give away a Viking.

So the guy at the hangar telling me that his viking is 14 knots faster than my Bonanza is Full of ****? Whodathunkit? Someone lying about their planes speed. :D

Oh, and you forgot ugly since we're crapping on Vikings. I don't like the boxy look.
 
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