Upgrading to a faster plane

Having heard the longstanding stories of how Beechcraft parts are expensive and being a Cessna owner myself, I believe you on the parts cost, but what about a Beech makes the use of parts less?
cut a few of each type up for scrap and compare how they['re put together. For example, where P and C will use cheap sheet metal bracket's you'll find forgings in the bonanzas. It's just a better built plane that, when it was new, sold for a premium. 40 years later the premium price is gone but the quality difference remains. My cherokees nickel & dimed me on small things, cracked this, worn out that. I have much less issue with this travel air even though it's both older and more complex.
 
Well when I work in south Texas for two weeks at a time it's not able to be hangered.... Try finding some hanger space ;)
fine, but you want some inside space somewhere and a good full-height cover for when you're on the road.
 
fine, but you want some inside space somewhere and a good full-height cover for when you're on the road.


Well of course I'd like it hangered year round but that's just not feaseable. I switch airports as my job moves and normally there isn't a central location. So being hangered two weeks at home out of the month is about the best I can do.
 
cut a few of each type up for scrap and compare how they['re put together. For example, where P and C will use cheap sheet metal bracket's you'll find forgings in the bonanzas. It's just a better built plane that, when it was new, sold for a premium. 40 years later the premium price is gone but the quality difference remains. My cherokees nickel & dimed me on small things, cracked this, worn out that. I have much less issue with this travel air even though it's both older and more complex.
Makes sense and seems to jive with what I have been hearing from two local A&P IAs that I know. Both have been trying to steer me toward B55s over 310s.
 
Makes sense and seems to jive with what I have been hearing from two local A&P IAs that I know. Both have been trying to steer me toward B55s over 310s.
Good find, those are mechanics looking out for your interests. If they had kids in college they would be trying to steer you toward the 310.
 
The only two things that can't be changed are TTAF and damage history. Whether it's a quality issue or a value issue can be debated, but in no case is it a positive.

Perhpas not a positive but that does not necessarily mean its a negative does it? I agree that if you had to planes exactly the same, make, model, year equipment etc and one had NDH and one had a replaced firewall one would be inclined to pick the one with NDH first but that does not mean the one that was repaired ( correctly )is a poor choice ?
 
Perhpas not a positive but that does not necessarily mean its a negative does it? I agree that if you had to planes exactly the same, make, model, year equipment etc and one had NDH and one had a replaced firewall one would be inclined to pick the one with NDH first but that does not mean the one that was repaired ( correctly )is a poor choice ?

you really have to look at it on a case by case basis. On a mooney, you can argue that a gear up has potential positive sides to it. You can end up with a one piece belly, newer prop (with no recurring AD) and a new paint job. Not necessarily all bad. It's knowing the quality and extent of repairs that makes you wonder.
 
Makes sense and seems to jive with what I have been hearing from two local A&P IAs that I know. Both have been trying to steer me toward B55s over 310s.

Depends on which ones you talk to and what the job is on them. I've found the 310 to be quite simple to work on. The Aztec was a bear to work on.

The 310 has had a few wear/age/structure issues, like some loose rivets to replace on the wing skins, but nothing significant. Definitely had more issues with the Aztec. Also don't know if said rivets are impacted by having extra power or not. It's had the bigger engines for 25 years, and I don't know if anything was changed on the R models with factory 520s.
 
You nailed it. Most airplanes are a compromise. The designer prioritizes some qualities over others. The Viking is unique in that it does not compromise. It manages to be cramped, slow, thirsty, noisy, and a maintenance oddball, all in one convenient package.

There are no bargains in a GA. The market is very efficient at assigning value. And you can't give away a Viking.

You forgot ugly....
 
Makes sense and seems to jive with what I have been hearing from two local A&P IAs that I know. Both have been trying to steer me toward B55s over 310s.

Meh, if you are looking at rough field work, yeah, the Baron is better, with a runway, I'll take the extra room of the 310.
 
and that's just making new metal panels and painting the rest of it that grey. I loved the color of that panel in my 172.

Nothing prevents you from painting your panel yourself. You can buy decal sets from various sources on TAP. It's not that difficult especially if you use fine line striping tape to edge the face. You can also get some PVA to paint on a barrier coat to surfaces. Check, but I'm pretty sure it's safe to put on windows. Between that and a layer of masking, your windows should be safe. Consider a 'wrinkle finish' paint if you use a lighter color for reduced glare.
 
What do better mean?

Perhpas not a positive but that does not necessarily mean its a negative does it? I agree that if you had to planes exactly the same, make, model, year equipment etc and one had NDH and one had a replaced firewall one would be inclined to pick the one with NDH first but that does not mean the one that was repaired ( correctly )is a poor choice ?
 
What about a Comanche 250 turbo?
great choice, but not as easy to come by as a TN Bo

both very good planes and very comparable performance-wise, but also very different as far as personal preferences. You should try one of each of some flavor, turbo or not, and see what you think.
 
great choice, but not as easy to come by as a TN Bo

both very good planes and very comparable performance-wise, but also very different as far as personal preferences. You should try one of each of some flavor, turbo or not, and see what you think.

TN Bo for $60K?
 
TN Bo for $60K?
neither comanche nor bo (worth owning) for that price, but take it in steps. Get the right airframe sans turbo and then make it into what you want over the years.
 
Turbo 250 Comanche will be tough/impossible to find. A 260 would be easier to find. the 250 is carb'd and the 260 is injected. No turbos on the carb'd models as far as I know.
 
:confused:
...Don't let the fact you can't afford a Beech Premier jade you into believing GA has zero transportation value. There's several iterations of mission sets where a piston single engine is a substantial time and money saver for the individual that puts a dollar sign to the idea of not getting to one's destination fatigued as hell.

I did it for a year in a warrior II. The block time for me was 4.5 hours. Driving would have been 9-10 hours (and that's solo driving, wearing diapers and not eating on the way) depending on traffic and weather. That's a non-starter for every other weekend. Airline was 8 hours (no direct flight) of which 3 were driving to the nearest class C commercial airport. More expensive than flying the piper per round trip by double and couldn't be price matched for deciding to travel on a whim.

I rather fly for 4.0 in a warrior than drive a car for 10 hours every weekend. No contest, not even close. And I did that right after work. If I had pulled that stunt driving 10 hours right after work for a year, I would be dead somewhere on an East Texas country road today, no question about it. If you need the same level of active attention and control manipulation in cruise flight in a piston aircraft as is normally required while driving in highway traffic, you need a xanax prescription and a rubber helmet, not a faster airplane.

As to headwinds, I flew over west Texas going west all the time, never encountered 60 knots headwind. I had all Sunday to get back. Winds looked stiff? I departed a little later, presto problem solved. I have an IFR rating and no aversion to flying over the Edwards Plateau and TX Hill Country at night. My wx dispatch rate was 100%. Meh.

300NM is a joke. The OP already has too much airplane for that mission. The only mistake he made was not getting a C182 or Dakota instead of the 235. Both 10 knots faster for one less GPH and no gear mx. Even then, he's ahead versus driving, unless they built a direct route concrete road for just him ;)


For very specific cases a piston GA plane will make your life easier. However, for utility you have to take into account the risk of single engine weather flying, time to get to the airport, preflight, arrange transportation, refuel, pay bills, etc. Also, it makes a huge different to be flown by a pro pilot. This way you dont waste time prepping or thinking about the flight with the penalty that you will take one less pax. In my experience I would say anywhere from 300-500 nm an sr22t makes sense for travel. Lower than that is better to drive, Higher than 500 nm better take the airlines. The way I see GA piston singles is as a maginally useful super cool toy. :D:D:D
 
The way I see GA piston singles is as a maginally useful super cool toy. :D:D:D

In which case you might want to discuss it with somebody who has BTDT. Maybe the facts would provide a different perspective.
 
For very specific cases a piston GA plane will make your life easier. However, for utility you have to take into account the risk of single engine weather flying, time to get to the airport, preflight, arrange transportation, refuel, pay bills, etc. Also, it makes a huge different to be flown by a pro pilot. This way you dont waste time prepping or thinking about the flight with the penalty that you will take one less pax. In my experience I would say anywhere from 300-500 nm an sr22t makes sense for travel. Lower than that is better to drive, Higher than 500 nm better take the airlines. The way I see GA piston singles is as a maginally useful super cool toy. :D:D:D

Lots of people who will disagree with you.

300nm straight-line is 6hrs in the car.

From where I am, it is 90min to NY by plane (+1hr cab) but 6hrs in sunday afternoon traffic, worse during the week.

If you are not getting use out of it, you have to tighten up your logistics. E.g. fueling, if I call on unicom while taxiing in, the fuel truck meets me at the hangar.
 
I just priced a commercial ticket from Orlando to midland Texas for my daughter. It was 534 bucks for the next day. I flew her there in about 6.5 hours which was the flight time for commercial with the layover not counting travel to airport and time checking in and out. It cost me about 375 for fuel. Got to visit the grand kids and then went on to Nebraska to take care of business. Didn't have to take my shoes off anywhere for anybody! :wink2: I fly 1100nm trips regularly and for me it almost always is cheaper and as fast or almost as fast as commercial. Of course I'm not adding cost of owning the airplane but I own it anyway. Just like my car. If I counted cost of owning one I could probably be convinced a cab might be cheaper in long run.:dunno:
 
I just priced a commercial ticket from Orlando to midland Texas for my daughter. It was 534 bucks for the next day. I flew her there in about 6.5 hours which was the flight time for commercial with the layover not counting travel to airport and time checking in and out. It cost me about 375 for fuel. Got to visit the grand kids and then went on to Nebraska to take care of business. Didn't have to take my shoes off anywhere for anybody! :wink2: I fly 1100nm trips regularly and for me it almost always is cheaper and as fast or almost as fast as commercial. Of course I'm not adding cost of owning the airplane but I own it anyway. Just like my car. If I counted cost of owning one I could probably be convinced a cab might be cheaper in long run.:dunno:

What are you flying? 6.5 hours is a long time IMO without stopping. Also, 1100 miles plus reserves is a long way West bound, you must have a big gas tank.
 
I was flying a columbia and had tailwinds most of the way. I take lettuce or celery along to munch on and some moisture then start drinking fluids half hour or so before I land. I hold 102 gals of fuel
 
When I was a kid, I could sit in a GA plane for +5 hours. Now - anything over 4 in any GA plane I can afford is pure torture. If you take anyone under the age of 25 for more than 4 hours you are truly gifted.
 
Living in KS I can get to either coast in about 5.5 hrs plus or minus winds but with a Turbo I can choose an appropriate altitude to minimize damage and maximize tail winds. I split the trip in to about 2:45. If head winds I might fly 3 hrs and 3 hrs. Either way even with a pee break I can fly to either coast in 1/3 the door to door times flying airlines.

You see Wichita has sucky air connection traffic. Plus getting to the airport 1 hr early, long term parking, check in, lay overs as there are seldom any direct flights to either coast.

Three times in the last 3 years I have been stranded at an airport with no way out and once there were no hotels as 10's of thousands of people were stranded before my arrival so I had to sleep in Atlanta or Minneapolis.

There really is no comparison in quality of transportation between my relatively slow Turbo Comanche and the Totally screwed up declining commercial aviation hub system. If I buy a same day walk up ticket I can usually beat the costs with my Comanche as well.....Or if I get 2 tickets for 7-14 day excursion tickets I can meet or beat the cost.
 
I just priced a commercial ticket from Orlando to midland Texas for my daughter. It was 534 bucks for the next day. I flew her there in about 6.5 hours which was the flight time for commercial with the layover not counting travel to airport and time checking in and out. It cost me about 375 for fuel. Got to visit the grand kids and then went on to Nebraska to take care of business. Didn't have to take my shoes off anywhere for anybody! :wink2: I fly 1100nm trips regularly and for me it almost always is cheaper and as fast or almost as fast as commercial. Of course I'm not adding cost of owning the airplane but I own it anyway. Just like my car. If I counted cost of owning one I could probably be convinced a cab might be cheaper in long run.:dunno:

$750 for return fuel vs. $1068 for 2 tickets is still a 300 difference. It softens the wear and tear costs on the plane.
 
Three or four of our golf group fly R/T from Tulsa to PSP every year on AA. Total R/T fare is ~$350, layovers in Dallas are ~1.5 hours each way. I'm usually on the same plane from DFW to PSP.

Maybe you should just drive to Tulsa and go with them. Nobody has missed connections or been cancelled, bumped or hassled in 11 years.

Living in KS I can get to either coast in about 5.5 hrs plus or minus winds but with a Turbo I can choose an appropriate altitude to minimize damage and maximize tail winds. I split the trip in to about 2:45. If head winds I might fly 3 hrs and 3 hrs. Either way even with a pee break I can fly to either coast in 1/3 the door to door times flying airlines.

You see Wichita has sucky air connection traffic. Plus getting to the airport 1 hr early, long term parking, check in, lay overs as there are seldom any direct flights to either coast.

Three times in the last 3 years I have been stranded at an airport with no way out and once there were no hotels as 10's of thousands of people were stranded before my arrival so I had to sleep in Atlanta or Minneapolis.

There really is no comparison in quality of transportation between my relatively slow Turbo Comanche and the Totally screwed up declining commercial aviation hub system. If I buy a same day walk up ticket I can usually beat the costs with my Comanche as well.....Or if I get 2 tickets for 7-14 day excursion tickets I can meet or beat the cost.
 
I'd like to believe you Wayne, but you mentioned AA, so I know that is total BS.

Nah, the big wigs at AA probably know Wayne and are part of the same golf group, so they make sure that the planes are on time.
 
Yep, the beautiful people and beautiful weather combine to make PSP a favorite destination. Now if we're talking Deeetroit, all bets are off.

Nah, the big wigs at AA probably know Wayne and are part of the same golf group, so they make sure that the planes are on time.
 
Yep, the beautiful people and beautiful weather combine to make PSP a favorite destination. Now if we're talking Deeetroit, all bets are off.
Still....maintenance issues have nothing to do with Wx or People.....if what you say is true, then your friends should really start buying some lottery tickets!
 
I've been in Dallas for 25 years. Can't ever remember a cancellation, but have sat through some aggravating delays. Luck of the draw and common sense (don't ever fly during winter holiday seasons) have prevented some of it, but DFW is an AA hub and MX base, so things might be a bit better than at other places.

But even if the record were worse, it would still be better than flogging a single or twin for a thousand miles into the winter westerlies. We flew the B-200 for a few trips, and westbound was always a 5+ grind. Coming home in 3.5 wasn't too shabby.


Still....maintenance issues have nothing to do with Wx or People.....if what you say is true, then your friends should really start buying some lottery tickets!
 
I've been in Dallas for 25 years. Can't ever remember a cancellation, but have sat through some aggravating delays. Luck of the draw and common sense (don't ever fly during winter holiday seasons) have prevented some of it, but DFW is an AA hub and MX base, so things might be a bit better than at other places.
Funny because all of my maintenance delays/cancellations on AA were at DFW.
 
But even if the record were worse, it would still be better than flogging a single or twin for a thousand miles into the winter westerlies. We flew the B-200 for a few trips, and westbound was always a 5+ grind. Coming home in 3.5 wasn't too shabby.

But what the hell would you know, you have only flown anything from a Champ to a G5 :rofl: .
 
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