Uavionics AV-30-C Certified

Morgan3820

Morgan3820

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Good news if true. It has been on my list of upgrades. Wondering about the details. Guessing it is not ready to drive my legacy AP.
 
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If you're plane is on the AML, for $4000 for two AV30S and some relatively simple wiring under the supervision of an A&P, you can eliminate your vacuum system and gain a bunch of functionality. That's pretty great in the certified world. Only negative is lack of cdi functionality..was hoping this would be a good pairing for ifr w/ a gps175, but no.
 
MuseChaser said:
If you're plane is on the AML, for $4000 for two AV30S and some relatively simple wiring under the supervision of an A&P, you can eliminate your vacuum system and gain a bunch of functionality. That's pretty great in the certified world. Only negative is lack of cdi functionality..was hoping this would be a good pairing for ifr w/ a gps175, but no.
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If you want GPSS for your rate-based AP, get G5s. They are certified for many aircraft and legacy APs, and work now. And have a large installed base, so A&Ps know how to install and troubleshoot them. Being a first adopter waiting for vaporware is OK for computer hobbyists, not so much for IFR operations.

You can only eliminate the vacuum system if no part of the vacuum system is required to operate your AP. For those with rate-based APs, this is not an issue, but owners with older vacuum AI driven APs will have to retain their vacuum system and the required vacuum instrument to drive the AP.
 
chemgeek said:
but owners with older vacuum AI driven APs will have to retain their vacuum system and the required vacuum instrument to drive the AP.
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The exception being the Garmin GI-275 and the Aspen units. Those can substitute for vacuum AI needed by certain autopilots.
 
chemgeek said:
If you want GPSS for your rate-based AP, get G5s. They are certified for many aircraft and legacy APs, and work now. And have a large installed base, so A&Ps know how to install and troubleshoot them. Being a first adopter waiting for vaporware is OK for computer hobbyists, not so much for IFR operations.

You can only eliminate the vacuum system if no part of the vacuum system is required to operate your AP. For those with rate-based APs, this is not an issue, but owners with older vacuum AI driven APs will have to retain their vacuum system and the required vacuum instrument to drive the AP.
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True. But then you have to give Garmin a lot more of your money. And the squares look out of place. Uavionics will get it worked out. I am patient. Besides, I already spent this year’s Christmas money on a NEW motorcycle.
 
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chemgeek said:
If you want GPSS for your rate-based AP, get G5s. They are certified for many aircraft and legacy APs, and work now. And have a large installed base, so A&Ps know how to install and troubleshoot them. Being a first adopter waiting for vaporware is OK for computer hobbyists, not so much for IFR operations.

You can only eliminate the vacuum system if no part of the vacuum system is required to operate your AP. For those with rate-based APs, this is not an issue, but owners with older vacuum AI driven APs will have to retain their vacuum system and the required vacuum instrument to drive the AP.
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Again, as in the other thread, great advice, although the only autopilot my plane will probably ever have is the guy who piloted the auto TO the plane. I know.. never say never, but I have the dream of getting the most out of this Cherokee while doing some great cost-effective renovations and upgrades and using it to get my IR... then buying a Cheetah or Tiger and making that our "forever" travel airplane.
 
More good news... I just received a reply to an inquiry I had sent uAvionix a few days ago... here it is...

"We actually just received AV-30-C certification as of this morning, the PA28-140 will be on the AML no doubt. About the LPV ops.....the AV-30-C at the moment is set up for horizontal guidance via a GPS connection, we do not currently support vertical guidance, but it is slated to be introduced sometime before 2022."

Sooo... yes.. it's still vaporware... but here's hoping!
 
uAvionix issued a permission letter, much like what Garmin does, so almost anyone can legally install the AV30.
 
bnt83 said:
Just skim the limitations on it...

https://uavionix.com/downloads/AV-30-C/AV-30-C Flight Manual Supplement UAV-1004044-001 Rev C - Signed.pdf
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No autopilot and no HSI... That kinda sucks. Severely limits who can really make use of this right now. I hope they find success though.

Ryan F. said:
Yet another case of light twin owners being left out in the cold... :(
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You can install the Garmin GI 275s though... That's the smallest/lightest upgrade that's certified for twins. But you twin owners are clearly made of money so you need to go with full glass. ;)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
No autopilot and no HSI... That kinda sucks. Severely limits who can really make use of this right now. I hope they find success though.



You can install the Garmin GI 275s though... That's the smallest/lightest upgrade that's certified for twins. But you twin owners are clearly made of money so you need to go with full glass. ;)
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G5 is certified also, at least as a backup. Just replaced our KI-300 with one.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
You can install the Garmin GI 275s though... That's the smallest/lightest upgrade that's certified for twins. But you twin owners are clearly made of money so you need to go with full glass. ;)
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I thought about it. I already have one G5 and was planning to add another. The GI 275 was introduced. It appears to interface with my old autopilot, a Century III. Sounds like a perfect setup for finally dumping my dual vacuum system, aside from the much higher price tag.

I had a lengthy chat with the nice folks at Lancaster Avionics. You can't mix and match G5s and GI 275s. It's both or none in terms of ADI/HSI presentation. "Have you actually sat behind a GI 275?" I was asked by the tech. Well, yes and no. I saw a demo unit but I didn't actually see one in a working panel. Stopped by a neighbor's hangar to have a look. Mighty small... mighty small indeed. That appears to be the chief complaint for those of us with aging eyes, anyway. I couldn't make two of those work effectively for a "glass" upgrade in my airplane.

Elected to stick with the dual G5s and I'm on the books now for a January installation. This is the third time I've attempted to get the G5 HSI installed in the last 2 years... something always gets in the way of it happening, but this time I believe it will stick.

Down the road there's a possibility that I could install a GI 275 in place of my legacy ADI which a) acts as my mechanical backup ADI and replaces my turn coordinator slot and b) drives my Century III autopilot. That's not really possible technically/legally at the moment but could be in the future.
 
Here's hoping Uavionix win's big with the AV-30C. I want one for my plane. With their current pace and autopilot/VNAV/back-up unit certification, Garmin will have a new G10 out. It's brutal competing with Garmin on speed of products & features to market with high reliability. (Comparing to Sandia Quattro 340a, KI-300, Aspen's ADs, etc)
 
John Myers said:
G5 is certified also, at least as a backup. Just replaced our KI-300 with one.
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Ah yes - "Class III" I think it is. Twins with a max gross weight below 6,000 pounds can use them. I was remembering, I think it was @Fearless Tower who couldn't install one in a Beech 18??

But, the GI 275 can be installed in larger/faster aircraft, even Citations and such.

John Myers said:
I was told the same guy wrote the software for both units.
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The Bendix/King KI-300 is nothing more than a Sandia 340A with a Bendix-King sticker on it. It's a rebadging/rebranding of the exact same product, which is pretty much King's entire game these days.

So yeah, the same guy wrote the software. And the same guy(s) designed the hardware, too...

Ryan F. said:
I thought about it. I already have one G5 and was planning to add another. The GI 275 was introduced. It appears to interface with my old autopilot, a Century III. Sounds like a perfect setup for finally dumping my dual vacuum system, aside from the much higher price tag.

I had a lengthy chat with the nice folks at Lancaster Avionics. You can't mix and match G5s and GI 275s. It's both or none in terms of ADI/HSI presentation. "Have you actually sat behind a GI 275?" I was asked by the tech. Well, yes and no. I saw a demo unit but I didn't actually see one in a working panel. Stopped by a neighbor's hangar to have a look. Mighty small... mighty small indeed. That appears to be the chief complaint for those of us with aging eyes, anyway. I couldn't make two of those work effectively for a "glass" upgrade in my airplane.
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Two things, though:

1) The G5 HSI doesn't even come close to using the whole screen. Physically, the GI 275 HSI may be a larger presentation than the G5 HSI. We'll have to get someone to measure. ;)

2) The GI 275 has a much brighter and higher resolution (ie, more modern) screen. My eyes are getting to be borderline and I have no trouble at all reading the 275.

Elected to stick with the dual G5s and I'm on the books now for a January installation. This is the third time I've attempted to get the G5 HSI installed in the last 2 years... something always gets in the way of it happening, but this time I believe it will stick.

Down the road there's a possibility that I could install a GI 275 in place of my legacy ADI which a) acts as my mechanical backup ADI and replaces my turn coordinator slot and b) drives my Century III autopilot. That's not really possible technically/legally at the moment but could be in the future.
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Legally, I think you could do it. I've read the install manuals and I don't think anything would prohibit that.

Technically, you could also do it, but it'd not be as nicely integrated as just having a pair of 275s in that you'll need to make heading/course/baro adjustments in two places, whereas a pair of G5s and a pair of GI 275s will communicate with each other so that you only have to make the adjustment once.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Ah yes - "Class III" I think it is. Twins with a max gross weight below 6,000 pounds can use them. I was remembering, I think it was @Fearless Tower who couldn't install one in a Beech 18??

But, the GI 275 can be installed in larger/faster aircraft, even Citations and such.



The Bendix/King KI-300 is nothing more than a Sandia 340A with a Bendix-King sticker on it. It's a rebadging/rebranding of the exact same product, which is pretty much King's entire game these days.

So yeah, the same guy wrote the software. And the same guy(s) designed the hardware, too...



Two things, though:

1) The G5 HSI doesn't even come close to using the whole screen. Physically, the GI 275 HSI may be a larger presentation than the G5 HSI. We'll have to get someone to measure. ;)

2) The GI 275 has a much brighter and higher resolution (ie, more modern) screen. My eyes are getting to be borderline and I have no trouble at all reading the 275.



Legally, I think you could do it. I've read the install manuals and I don't think anything would prohibit that.

Technically, you could also do it, but it'd not be as nicely integrated as just having a pair of 275s in that you'll need to make heading/course/baro adjustments in two places, whereas a pair of G5s and a pair of GI 275s will communicate with each other so that you only have to make the adjustment once.
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The reason to use a G5 over a 275 is it is less than half the cost, clearly the 275 is a more advanced unit. G5 is approved for Class II aircraft, which are <6,000 gross.

I was referring to the AV-30 software guy being the same as the KI-300/SAI-340 (obviously those are the same unit, although they do use slightly different firmware).
 
flyingcheesehead said:
The G5 HSI doesn't even come close to using the whole screen. Physically, the GI 275 HSI may be a larger presentation than the G5 HSI. We'll have to get someone to measure. ;)
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The G5 is a 4:3 display that measures 3.5" on the diagonal.
That works out to be 2.8" wide by 2.1" tall.
The GI275 is a round screen with a small cutout on the bottom that measures 2.69" diameter.
That works out to be 2.69" wide by 2.43" tall.
 
John Myers said:
I was referring to the AV-30 software guy being the same as the KI-300/SAI-340 (obviously those are the same unit, although they do use slightly different firmware).
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Oh. Wow. Really? :o

asicer said:
The G5 is a 4:3 display that measures 3.5" on the diagonal.
That works out to be 2.8" wide by 2.1" tall.
The GI275 is a round screen with a small cutout on the bottom that measures 2.69" diameter.
That works out to be 2.69" wide by 2.43" tall.
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Boom! There it is. So in reality, the display portion itself is almost the same size, except the corners.
 
The main difference is the G5 is QVGA display (320x240 pixels) and the GI275 is a little better than HVGA (480x433 pixels). So the GI275 will be significantly crisper. But the G5 is plenty readable for the purpose it serves. My only complaint about the G5 is that it can be difficult at times to see which menu item is highlighted. That could be fixed in software by providing larger highlights or inverting the colors of the selected item.
 
Definitely agree the GI 275 display is crisper -- higher-res -- looks great.

You pay for it though...
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Aha! That was going to be my next to-do, to superimpose the HSIs. I suspected the G5 HSI presentation was smaller, but I didn't realize it was going to be by that much.
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Well, sort of... note that the glideslope indicator is superimposed on top of the HSI on the GI 275 while it's "off in space" on the G5.

On the GI 275, the aircraft heading sits right on the display itself in sort of an awkward location, actually covering some of the compass rose.

Heading select, nav mode, course select all live right on the face of the compass rose itself, too, covering the tail (what's that reciprocal course?)

The G5 takes advantage of the "corners" to declutter the portion of the presentation which is actually used a primary flight instrument.

The negatives I mentioned aren't necessarily show-stoppers for everyone, or even me for that matter, but saying the GI 275 has a "bigger" display is not necessarily accurate. That's a very cluttered area compared to the G5. There's a price to pay for that form factor.
 
One other point we've talked about for awhile on the G5 is the desirability of an "arc" mode. Garmin has resisted this, and there might be reason why from a product ecosystem perspective... obviously arc mode wouldn't work on the GI 275 and an arc mode on G5 would take great advantage of that screen real estate, possibly bringing the G5 "too close" to the GI 275's capabilities for its price point. Just theorizing on that, though.

An arc view on the G5 would really be a great improvement to the product.
 
John Myers said:
I was told the same person developed the AHRS units in both.
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That's a good thing because he/she learned from their mistakes.

Or.

That's a bad thing because he/she did not learn from their mistakes.
 
asicer said:
That's a good thing because he/she learned from their mistakes.

Or.

That's a bad thing because he/she did not learn from their mistakes.
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Sandia is probably going out of business, I don’t think there is a fix. Learning in progress. I had a KI-300 (rebadged 340) and it would tell me I was turning left in a right turn. It’s now on its way back to them, hopefully bound for the landfill where it can’t kill anyone. GI-275 that replaced it makes the old unit seem like it was from the stone age.
 
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