Trio vs TruTrak

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Unit74, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. simtech

    simtech Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Trio is $3500 and then you have to buy the stc install kit which is on sale for $1755. Normally it's $2750. So the trio isn't $3k. And the trio is more involved with install. Not saying it's a bad unit but it's not $3000 vs $5000 like you suggested .

    And I went TT and loving it.
     
  2. Unit74

    Unit74 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I will buy a TT if the FAA will get on the horse and release the STC....... I’d be nice to have some sort of update from TT though.
     
  3. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hmmmm… You need to do some more research if your choice is price sensitive.. The Trio is $3500 PLUS the install kit/STC for $2750. That makes it $6250. The STC/ Kit is on sale now for $1000 less, so that makes it close but a bit more....

    Be aware that the Trio install is more than double the cost of installing the TT. Without the sale price, the Trio installs are getting up near the Garmin price..... depending...

    Cap
     
  4. jssmith.lh

    jssmith.lh Filing Flight Plan

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    $6500 for the Trio plus the STC/install kit from the STC group. That's for a Grumman.....

    Edit: Oops! Cap beat me to it.
     
  5. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    Trio has auto trim. Does the TT have a fuel manager?
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  6. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    BOTH TT and Trio are capable of autotrim, neither are STC'd for it. TT have the autotrim system already designed and are marketing it to the experimental guys. I expect we will see it sometime in the future. The TT can also operate electric trim systems in most aircraft, but not STC'd for it yet. (Field approval? )

    The Garmin has (extra cost) and is STC'd to use Auto trim. The Trio has a fuel manager, TT does not. The Trio has a feature to activitate lateral nav or vertival nav separately, but with some cautions around engaging either separately.

    Cap
     
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  7. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    >>the (Trio) stc install kit which is on sale for $1755. Normally it's $2750

    That's almost a 40% discount... below their cost..

    Ruh roh… :( I can see 10 - 15% discounted sale prices as a sales incentive, but 40%?

    Cap
     
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  8. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Works some good doesn't it!

    On one flight I multitasked ours with a "direct to" (170 Degree turn) in a "Alt Set" climb hard enough to activate the "Min Spd" function, gave it a 45 degree "deviation" opposite the turn, let it settle on the dev heading, then told it to resume the "direct to" (all this with the "MinSpd" warning going off) and it settled exactly on the DT heading at exactly the target alt.

    Not sure what else I could ask any AP to do.... (well, - it did ask for a touch of trim help at the target alt when I pulled the power back to cruise.. :) :) )

    But... DAMN! :)

    Cap
     
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  9. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    They just got a few more Cessna models STC’d. Probably trying to incentivize that crowd
     
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  10. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hmmm... I checked the PA-28 for those numbers... Almost all of their (existing) kits are on sale, some at very deep discounts...

    ………………..

    Cap
     
  11. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    Buy me one
     
  12. simtech

    simtech Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Boom! SmartSelectImage_2019-03-28-10-31-32.png
     
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  13. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I don't care if the add-on for auto trim costs $2000, I want that too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
  14. Unit74

    Unit74 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I guess it’s time to shoot or get off the pot! I’ll bet the UPS guy in Springdale is gonna crap his drawers when he shows up..... “Boss, I’m gonna need a bigger truck!”
     
  15. simtech

    simtech Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Hahaha yep! And you there is a $200 discount right now too when ordered online with the promo code.
     
  16. Jesse Saint

    Jesse Saint Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Keep your shirts on, guys. They got the STC, but now they need a PMA from Oklahoma City. The good news is that they have been waiting on the STC, so it should happen fast.
     
  17. Unit74

    Unit74 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Did Aspen/ Trutrak ever sort out interoperability? Aspen said it was on TT to do, not them.

    The discount only shows on the 172s and PA28s.....
     
  18. simtech

    simtech Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Might be because they didn't have the stc yet??
     
  19. Unit74

    Unit74 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    They do now, and I think it would be foolish to discount right now on the 182/32 airframes.....

    Once things slow and the knee jerk buyers get their stuff, perhaps. If anyone is going to Sun and Fun, ask I guess. Maybe you’ll get a free hat!
     
  20. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    From another forum... With the authors permission... :)

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Spoke to TT on Monday on another matter, but got this... (At least this part has been settled... )

    What we can expect...

    Barometer synch
    Heading (from whatever source you have switched it to, for the wanters, Magnetometer slaved magnetic heading)
    Altitude Set
    VS set.

    To clarify...

    The TT will follow the Baro setting on the E5, follow the Left-Right direction set on the E5 (whatever you use for the source, VOR, DG, GPS, ILS/GS or whatever your Navigator will send to it, Vertical or horizontal) Set a target alt on the E5 and the TT will climb to it and hold, set an ROC and the TT will follow that VS..(most useful in a decent profile)

    AHRS and Magnetometer are in the RSM unit mounted on the roof of the cabin, behind the baggage area, looks like a shim will be required, or internally if you will NEVER want the GPS) The RSM is powered by the battery backup. Recommended you order and pay a bit extra for the optional RS that has the emergency GPS antenna contained, (only active in upgraded versions of the E5. There are early issues with the non GPS RSM)

    TT<> E5 option will be hopefully late spring/early summer, but you and they know the Caveats here.. and the FAA is in what can only politely described as a "--it storm" over the Max 8. Eyeballs are appearing in every corner...

    From another source, NOT TT.. Aspen has been the slow partner, their ADSB "bug" with certain areas of ADSB coverage has been consuming their resources and attention for some time.. The patch is now available, so hopefully they can get their resources back on this...

    For the more technical, The E5 will "pass on" whatever vertical and horizontal steering data it gets from any source (that you have chosen) to the TT through a bidirectional ARINC 429 A-B data link..

    Best I have so far.. FWIW....
     
  21. Unit74

    Unit74 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Wait... What? I thought Trutrak was already playing with Aspen E5....... That's what I understood. Your "source" is now saying that is not the case? As in, they don't work together yet?
     
  22. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    EASY NOW! :) I did not say that at all... My source only said (and I related) the Aspen has had to deal with a problem and had to apply resources the last few months to fix it NOW.. This was unexpected and they had to deal with it.

    TT and Aspen have been playing together for at least a year and a half.. I think I remember hearing that TT had the "Pre Production" Aspen in mid 2017.. (?)

    First step, get the Vizion certed and delivered.. March 2018, - then the Aspen, first deliveries, Dec 2018. Now the integration has been ongoing all this time.. But 3 things are needed, Vizion and E5 are now STC'd, then (3) get the approval for the software revisions to make the two talk to each other, with everybody on the same page.. Ya have to do the steps in order..

    Don't know if you heard about the software "bug" causing issues with some non standard code used by some ADSB ground installations in the mid West. Aspen had to divert some resources to squash that bug. Just been done, the DL is out to dealers now.. Hopefully Aspen can get the resources back on to the TT project and get this done.. I hear a lot of stuff, and this explanation just made sense to me.. (FWIW)

    I understand it is almost done, and the latest is that they have settled on the functions that will be available (more likely it is what the FAA will allow) and now we know .

    That's it.. no more. After final tests. I expect TT will fly the combo around a while and have others play with it looking for bugs.... (that's their style) and then seek the necessary approvals..

    Next... clear the FAA hurdle...

    Then if you are on their list, you will get the mail... :)

    Relax, they are almost there.... but never as fast as we all would like...

    The potential of the popularity of this combo is NOT LOST on either company, many customers are waiting on this one. I am one of them...

    The integration, TT<> Aspen has amazing functionality, affordable in not spending $$$$ to tear into your panel structure. The upgrade path goes to wow. The TFT display is readable in sunlight and with polarized glasses.

    And before you ask, the G5 integration will be slow, and may not happen. Garmin really does not like their stuff being able to talk to other manufacturer's stuff. G5 sales are expected to wain with the intro of the G3X, some are already looking at pulling one of the dual G5s for the G3X , using it as the backup and selling the #2. I predict used G5s will be on the market soon, the G5 luster is fading as we speak. The G3X will talk to the TT through the ARINC 429 interface now with heading, so TT may concentrate on that.. The code in the 429 data sentence is far easier to crack than Garmin's proprietary interface. To integrate other functions, again Garmin's help would be needed. Don't hold your breath. (IMHO!) :)

    Cap
     
  23. Unit74

    Unit74 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I have heard G5s are already driving Trutraks.....How is that possible if garmin is hard nut to crack? Aspen does have a nice rig in that E5. Shame they at least didnt give us an HSI for that price...... I don't think G5s will tank. It has a purpose. Any if you got the cheese for a G3X, you will need that G5 for the GFC.
     
  24. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hear a lot of stuff, mostly noise, but the only G5 I have ever heard of talking to a TT is the one Zach's workbench at TT... The docs I offered on the TTs went to one PILE of people, I have heard back from many of them, none have mentioned they are driving it with a G5, (but there may be...)

    The G5 outputs data on a proprietary Garmin com protocol. TT cracked it ..

    G5s wont tank, they are a good value. And you are right, as I also pointed out, a good backup for many MFDs. And THIS back up has it's own battery backup as well.. Not a bad feature..

    But the guys hot to trot on dual G5s are now more excited about the 7" G3X... (or so it seems... ) :)
     
  25. Unit74

    Unit74 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I had an email exchange with Zach this week..... regarding the G5. Right from the email:

    The G5 interface has not been released yet. We will soon be making the needed software changes on our end and sending the software through the FAA approval.

    But I’ve heard that the dealers are already doing this. Makes it hard to understand what the help is really going on. Honestly though, if your gonna do a G5, it would have to be to drive a GFC so why even mess with the Trutrak?
     
  26. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Thanks for this Unit! This is good news for those that already have a G5 and want to go with the TT! TT had the interface working in late 2017, but Corey was unsure that they would be able to persue it to market at the time... But TT has always worked hard on the interface of their products with other equipments.. :)

    Be interesting to know how dealers are doing this … without the software in the TT being able to accept the Garmin coded data. If they can convert the Garmin data code to ARINC 429 data, that would work... (or to RS 232 data, but that will not offer GPSS) Accessories are available to do this, but not for certed aircraft… but....

    Ya...you are correct, if you MUST have a GFC, and have the $$$, the G5 (2) was the only low cost option, and the disadvantage of the GFC 500 was that the G5s were the only choice..(other than the "big" Garmin glass) Many are considering the G3X now with the GFC, bringing the feature set up near the Aspen<>TT combo.. That would make a nice AP upgrade! The AMUs needed are out of our budget, but what a nice system to have!
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
  27. simtech

    simtech Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    On Instagram today TT announced they are shipping now for ones listed above.
     
  28. Unit74

    Unit74 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I’m sure Cody appreciates the hall space back....
     
  29. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I hear it was getting cramped...

    They are a couple of months away yet from getting in their new digs....
     
  30. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    Valid point, but in Simtechs defense, he made it very clear that the stated price did not include installation.
     
  31. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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  32. Lynn Dixon

    Lynn Dixon Pre-takeoff checklist

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    HEHEHEHEHE... I wonder if they will open it up to a Q/A session. We should all join up and just hammer them with questions about the TruTrak firmware update.
     
  33. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Here's your chance! :)
     
  34. Unit74

    Unit74 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I was told today Trurak is back ordered 8 weeks right now. Good and bad. Good because when it they ship a TT, it should have the new Aspen integration update on it. .... Bad, because you're gonna haveta wait two months to get one if ordered right now. Aspen said that some dealers are actually getting the Aspen to work with the Trutrak, but had no details on how they are getting it done. I am skeptical at best this is accurate. This goes along loosely with the "we should have the software done by Osh" statement I was given earlier this week.

    I will say that Zach, Cody and Steven have been patient and very willing to talk about the progress on the Vizion. Same with an call to Aspen. They act like they want my business. Garmin won't give me the time of day. Apparently they fail to understand I have money to spend, but don't want to earn it.
     
  35. Unit74

    Unit74 Ejection Handle Pulled

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  36. simtech

    simtech Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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  37. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Ya... I guess when the STC became a reality for the PA-32s, the TruTrak phone lit up... They had a bunch already to go but I think they were mostly pre-orders.. Gota remember the Vision is very popular with the Cessna guys as well..

    Zach, Corey and Steve have been amazing, and very patient with the phone calls... Also Mike at Aspen has been very helpful and totally up front with the challenges they have faced... Small companies trying very hard...

    Talked to Garmin about the new G3X, but the totally unable (or unwilling ) to discuss hooking to the Vizion. Best I have is a long form of "try it and see' … :(

    Aspen still having issues with the RSM in a (very) few aircraft. Every one that is returned tests OK.. But they substitute the old style RSM and it works perfect. (prob is the "old" style in not certed to work with the new E5.. )

    The Aspen does work with the Vizion in the Experimental world, but I cannot find out HOW MANY functions are available.. I think it is just the heading bug. Apparently the "flags" are unavailable . These are the signals to alert the AP that the information is "not good/stable/ error free" etc. so the AP can disconnect/alarm or whatever.. This function is needed in the certed world but not in the experimental world.. (info gleaned from others)

    FWIW!
     
  38. Lynn Dixon

    Lynn Dixon Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Anybody catch the webinar last night? Andrew Barker from TruTrak said the firmware will be released around mid-May. Should include the integrations with Aspen E5 and Garmin G5.
     
  39. Unit74

    Unit74 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Nice... I was working and couldn’t get in the webinar. That’s good news. Last I was told was Oshkosh.
     
  40. Lynn Dixon

    Lynn Dixon Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Andrew also talked about the heading and baro sync integrations with E5 / G5. He also mentioned that altitude bug and altitude preselect were coming (not clear if in this next update or not???) .

    Electric trim is coming at some point, but right now their radar is getting more airframes added for the Vizion / Aerocruze.

    I kinda felt bad..the webinar was so Bendix-King could pimp our "their" AeroCruze (which is just a TruTrak Vizion with different bezel), but all the questions ended up going to Andrew about TruTrak Vizion and Aspen / Garmin integrations. He did say that *currently* the Vizion and AeroCruze are identical except for the bezel, but in the future that *may* change as Bendix and TruTrak work on more integrations with the Bendix PFD.

    But he also said there were a ton of exciting stuff being worked on with Aspen and Avidyne with TruTrak. He mentioned that he loves working with the Avidyne folks, and that they are excited to be working with TruTrak to offer new integrations and features for the Vizion.