Trio vs TruTrak

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Unit74, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Nice looking product!

    Cap
     
  2. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    Soooo.... if I do an Aspen E5 and the Trutrak, do need to remove the GI106A currently on the GTN 650 for the STC? Or in other words, is it still required and if not, is there any reason to keep it installed such as redundant to the CDI on the Aspen?
     
  3. Lynn Dixon

    Lynn Dixon Pre-Flight

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    Reading the E5 manual, it looks as if you can keep the GI06A and it will function like a standby/secondary with the Aspen E5. I have a GI102A (the ONLY piece of Garmin gear in my entire panel) thats slaved to my IFD540, and I plan on keeping it in the panel as a standby/secondary for the E5. I figure why not? Its already paid for, already installed and wired, might as well get some use out of it. I am not sure the GI102A has as much resale value as a GI106A, so it might not even be worth pulling in my example.
     
  4. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    Sooo..... I think I am gonna do the Trutrak and the E5. I’m thinking the dual G5 sounds really nice up front, but with the capability to turn the E5 into a full blown Pro 1000 MX later, it really makes more sense to go that route where the G5’s will always be just G5’s.

    I don’t know if TT is going to add auto trim or anything, but I’m feeling good knowing Aspen is arm in arm with TT the options are open. And the GFC500, While much preferable and assuming they actually add my plane to the list, is double the cost for 20% more capability. I dunno. Just thinking aloud. But if I’m going to drop the coin, money being about equal, Aspen\TT just feels right. What am I missing?
     
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  5. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    I don't thing you have missed much Unit74...

    I am flying the TruTrak now, and the system and the support of the company have exceeded expectations...

    In the present market, the Trio has been relegated to a non starter, and some Trio installs are poking into the Garmin price range. TT have found their niche.... I like the partnership , TT<> Aspen. I have reason to believe auto trim , IAS set and some other goodies will come down the road, but it may be some time, the reason being that TT are applying all their resources to get additional STCs/AMLs in place. They are producing at full capacity and other type aircraft owners are clamoring on their doorstep. Their brilliantly clever design and installation process has impressed everybody. FAA and TC approvals will ALWAYS hold up the process.

    Short version of the above, -- I expect they will be around to support my system until I am done with it and beyond.They know how to do auto trim and other options, they already offer it to the experimental market now.

    I like the G5 units, but like the TFT technology of the Aspen screen that I can see easily with polarised glasses. And as you have pointed out, they will always be G5s, where the Aspen E5 can be upgraded to the WOW category if the $$$ are available. I have done enough "tearing out and replacing" for a while, so software upgrades in the future I find very appealing. If I had the dinero I would mount 3 Aspens and load them up!

    I attend discussions in 4 forums, and the same trends and conclusions are forming there as well. (Trio<> TT , G5 <> Aspen) The Aspen <> TT combination works very well, several are flying with good reports. Both companies have great reputations for support and innovation, and if they expand their integration, they could win this going away. I have spoken to both, and I can assure you that the benefit to each, by pursuing this co-operative effort, is absolutely not lost on either company.

    I think the Aspen will be in our aircraft later next year.. or sooner if our noisy DG goes South. (!)

    The more I hear and research, the more comfortable I am with the value and supportability of the Aspen<>TT solution , and it is within the budget.

    In this present market, I think it is the safe bet, and by far the most value.. I don't have the budget to spend a LOT more money for a couple of incremental functions that will be lightly (or maybe never) used. Many features are nice, and I am a self confessed gadget dork, but lately I have to admit that I now most often just tell the TT to "fly the plane " and enjoy the ride. :)

    Cheers!

    Cap
     
  6. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    Just saw on TTs Facebook that the PA 32 processing from the FAA is stopped. How the hell am I supposed to stimulate the economy if they won’t give me the AP to buy? TT said it’s ready to ship... just waiting on the FAA to give them the head nod and a signature.... Grrrrrr
     
  7. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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  8. chartbundle

    chartbundle Line Up and Wait

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    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  9. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    >>And based on a discussion on Mooneyspace it sounds like Trio is a part time operation, or at least some of the people doing the STC work are, which might be a bit worrying if they didn't drop Mooneys entirely.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It is, and with due credit, Trio is owned by some really good people who do a great job, and have a deservedly loyal and happy customer base. The STC Group is also a part time operation ...

    By comparison, TruTrack is a full time operation with livelihoods invested.. I think the words are "skin in the game" :)

    It became a factor in the decision of many when choosing, particularly mid 2018 when things started to turn sour at Trio/STC as evidenced by their OWN correspondence with potential customers...Some of their correspondence shocked many potential customers…

    TruTrak design and build their servos and head ends on site in the USA. Trio units are imported. At TT things happen when solving issues, especially when the engineer who designed the unit is in the next room. I am quite sure the software coding is also done by their own people in the same building..

    Cap
     
  10. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    >which might be a bit worrying if they didn't drop Mooneys entirely.
    ---------------------------------------------------
    I checked in the the Mooney Space, looks like they just did...

    Cap
     
  11. chartbundle

    chartbundle Line Up and Wait

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    And thus I'm not at all worried about a part time company supporting Mooney installations, since there won't be any.
     
  12. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Interesting thread! Looks like a couple there still stuck on the Trio.. I guess they don't read back... :)

    Cap
     
  13. Ezflyr82

    Ezflyr82 Filing Flight Plan

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    Cappy48, this is in response to a few of your posts regarding the Trio operations. First, I must say I enjoy your posts and find them very informative and generally on target. However, there is some misinformation that I'd like to correct with regard to Trio.
    First of all, Trio is not a part time operation. Never has been since incorporation in 2000. We are on site at the Trio office generally from 0800 to 1900 - 2000 each day. We also provide weekend support for customer support issues.
    Secondly, Trio does in fact build their own servos. Some time ago there was misinformation on the net that our servos were manufactured in Italy. Absolutely untrue. As with almost all manufacturing, components are sourced off site but final assembly of all mechanical and electrical assemblies are done at the Trio facility. All autopilot system inquiries, whether seeking product information or technical assistance are handled immediately by office personnel. The design engineer is on site and frequently handles technical questions when office staff need that assistance right then and there. And yes, the hardware and software design has been done right at the Trio Office since inception in 2000. I hope this helps clear up the discrepancies in the information you have on hand.

    Thanks !
    Chuck




    Cappy48, this is in response to a few of your posts regarding the Trio operations. First, I must say I enjoy your posts and find them very informative and generally on target. However there is some misinformation in a few of them that I'd like to correct with regard to Trio.

    First of all, Trio is not a part time operation. Never has been since incorporation in 2000. We are on site at the Trio office generally from 0800 to 1900 - 2000 each day. We also provide weekend support for customer support issues. Secondly, Trio does in fact build their own servos. Some time ago there was misinformation on the net that ou
    Cappy48, this is in response to a few of your posts regarding the Trio operations. First, I must say I enjoy your posts and find them very informative and generally on target. However, there is some misinformation that I'd like to correct with regard to Trio.
    First of all, Trio is not a part time operation. Never has been since incorporation in 2000. We are on site at the Trio office generally from 0800 to 1900 - 2000 each day. We also provide weekend support for customer support issues.
    Secondly, Trio does in fact build their own servos. Some time ago there was misinformation on the net that our servos were manufactured in Italy. Absolutely untrue. As with almost all manufacturing, components are sourced off site but final assembly of all mechanical and electrical assemblies are done at the Trio facility. All autopilot system inquiries, whether seeking product information or technical assistance are handled immediately by office personnel. The design engineer is on site and frequently handles technical questions when office staff need that assistance right then and there. And yes, the hardware and software design has been done right at the Trio Office since inception in 2000.
    I hope this helps clear up the discrepancies with the information you have on hand.
     
  14. Ezflyr82

    Ezflyr82 Filing Flight Plan

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    Cappy48, this is in response to a few of your posts regarding the Trio operations. First, I must say I enjoy your posts and find them very informative and generally on target. However, there is some misinformation that I'd like to correct with regard to Trio.
    First of all, Trio is not a part time operation. Never has been since incorporation in 2000. We are on site at the Trio office generally from 0800 to 1900 - 2000 each day. We also provide weekend support for customer support issues.
    Secondly, Trio does in fact build their own servos. Some time ago there was misinformation on the net that our servos were manufactured in Italy. Absolutely untrue. As with almost all manufacturing, components are sourced off site but final assembly of all mechanical and electrical assemblies are done at the Trio facility. All autopilot system inquiries, whether seeking product information or technical assistance are handled immediately by office personnel. The design engineer is on site and frequently handles technical questions when office staff need that assistance right then and there. And yes, the hardware and software design has been done right at the Trio Office since inception in 2000.
    I hope this helps clear up the discrepancies with the information you have on hand.
     
  15. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Chuck..

    Thank you for this!

    Since I started researching for a new AP early in 2017 for an AP, I have found the industry to be rife with misinformation. Some information was SO difficult to obtain. I called Trio in June 2017 for specific information on the servos. When the representative found out I had a certified aircraft, he said the servos were different and was referred to the STC Group for information. However, I had just been referred to Trio for the information by the STC Group. (!) The subsequent second phone conversation with the STC group did not, shall we say, go well... :( They had no idea about the design of the servo or simply did not wish to share it...

    We had a wing apart for an AOA instrument install In April and wanted to install the roll servo cable at that time. Again bounced back and forth to get specs on the cable. We did get that info from your staff on the 2nd call after explaining that STC G were unable to give us the specs. (And we did get the cable installed!)

    The STC Group, by their own correspondence, is "part time" and I think this label is being unfairly attached to Trio due to the association when a customer is forced to deal with a "package" end product.

    Can you help with another piece of information about the Trio servos? The gear train... Is there a "breakaway" plastic gear in there? Perhaps in the experimental version only? Another case where I was referred to the STC G for the answer, but they "didn't know" . That would be good to have the correct information on that point.

    Thanks for this... Great to hear from the "top" ! Trio has a stellar reputation with all I have spoken to in the Experimental world!

    Cheers!

    Cap
     
  16. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    Chuck .... if you want to go toe to toe with Trutrak, you are going to have to even the monetary disparity somehow. If I can have Trutrak installed for $7500, Trio really does not bring enough to the table to justify the extra expense. I like your head unit better than the TT, but it’s all about the bottom dollar..... functionality as a ratio to cost.
     
  17. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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  18. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    Cost drives the train in this market. How much do they want for it?
     
  19. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    About 12 AMU's.. on the train !.. Dealers MAY sell for less... :)

    Nav
     
  20. simtech

    simtech Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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  21. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Looks like! :)

    What it does is bring another "Head/MFD" into the options list for the TruTrak and gives the TT Vizion wide exposure to the market with a strong dealer network..

    So, we now have the Aspens, AeroVue, G5s (Despite Garmin's crappy attitude) The Scorcer eventually and possibly the GP and Dynon Skyview (if ever) to play with the TT Auto Pilots...

    Cap
     
  22. simtech

    simtech Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Seems odd TT would let BK put there name on it though.
     
  23. chartbundle

    chartbundle Line Up and Wait

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    You mean like the KI-300 is just a rebranded Sandia Quattro?
     
  24. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    Talked to TT today.... not a peep out of the FAA on the PA32 STC. That must suck having stock in hand and nobody to sell it to. The kits are literally ready to ship out.
     
  25. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Ya... In early January Corey said they are mostly all presold and piled high. Must be an awful cost to them as well.. costs that any small business does not need.

    Not to mention working around piles of product that customers have paid for are waiting for.. A year ago for the PA-28s, same thing, all sold, addressed and ready to ship... :(

    Cap
     
  26. Lynn Dixon

    Lynn Dixon Pre-Flight

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    Same goes for the approval for their firmware updates. They can't get it through the system because of the FAA backlog during the shutdown.
     
  27. tceq24443

    tceq24443 Pre-Flight

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    e5_main_1.png
    Aspen E5 is IFR certified, Glideslope and CDI bugs are displayed on the attitude indicator, little green diamonds. Basic HSI information just a different format.
     
  28. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    $3k post facto gets the full Pro MAX if someone really needs the HSI. I have never flown with one nor figured out how they work. I like the DG format myself, but that's because I don't know what I don't know.
     
  29. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    See it.... Hmmmm… That would do fine... ? Not sure I would go the extra $$$ just to have the "Normal" HSI picture in addition to that... .

    Between that and the "magenta line" I think I could keep things on track....

    Cap
     
  30. tceq24443

    tceq24443 Pre-Flight

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    agree don't think I would pay another $5K to buy a traditional HSI. The E5 shows the same info as an GI-106 indicator...maybe for all the other stuff that will come with the Pro-Max but not just for that.
     
  31. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I tend to agree.. I think I might look at putting the $$$ toward a second E5 and use that real estate for other functions , map etc...

    But something to think about...

    Cap
     
  32. Lynn Dixon

    Lynn Dixon Pre-Flight

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    I just got a text from my avionics guy.... it was a photo of my E5's box :) Now to get it scheduled in the shop for the install....

    And here's to hoping that TruTrak will be able to get their software update shipped/available by the time my airplane is getting the E5 installed.
     
  33. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    Hows about a second E5 with reversion capability that will do a moving map? Kind of a poors mans EFD Pro 1500 system? I would be all...over ....THAT!
     
  34. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Oh YA! THAT makes a lot of sense... :) (Cap reaching for checkbook…! ) That MIGHT remove the requirement for a backup AI ? …. if the #2 had its own battery? Might the vac system go?

    Hmmmmm….

    Cap
     
  35. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    They should have sent it through you! Sooo much fun unboxing new toys! PLEASE post here how it goes.. The E5 is now the most likely solution for our Warrior... I especially like the future options if we MAKE $$$ available.. (well, we can dream..... right? )

    >>TruTrak will be able to get their software update shipped/available by the time

    Jammed in the guvmint shutdown... :( with a whole lot of other stuff... :(

    Cap
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  36. Lynn Dixon

    Lynn Dixon Pre-Flight

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    Hey Guys! I have my Aspen E5 in my grubby little hands :) Here's some photos I snagged:

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/9EL7nniQdotZzwRj9

    I also did a cheesy "unboxing" video, not sure if theres any interest in sharing it. If there is, I'll get it on Youtube.

    I have also confirmed that the RSM that ships is the version WITHOUT the GPS antenna, BUT, my shop has confirmed that the RSM cable is the same for all versions of the RSM. So. when the time comes to upgrade to the ProMax, its a simple change of the RSM (which has a pigtail on it), and no need to re-pull the cabling from the panel. My installer is hoping to get me in towards the end of this Month!

    I think I'll start another thread for us to discuss since this one is supposed to be about Trio vs TruTrak hah.
     
  37. cappy48

    cappy48 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Ahhh…. like being away at college and getting a "Care" package from home!! SO FUN!

    Sounds like you are one of many! Looks like it will be a popular choice.. (!) Ya... I would watch the vid! :)

    Cap
     
  38. Lynn Dixon

    Lynn Dixon Pre-Flight

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  39. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    Anyone heard anything on the Trutrak yet? Not a peep on their Facebook.
     
  40. SbestCFII

    SbestCFII Line Up and Wait

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    Garmin is pricing themselves out of the AP game in legacy aircraft. Trio is $3000 vs TT at $5000. Features vs. Price, I'd go for Trio.