Trent Palmer (YouTuber Bush Pilot Channel) Suspended By FAA

Imagine the noise if two-stroke dirt-bikes ruled the earth again. Dirt bike racing was never the same from the spectator standpoint once 4-strokes began their ascent. Now electric. Something about 10k plus rpm makes me feel younger and aliver, like the sound of an 88” prop.

The first 20 seconds of this video never gets old (@Mtns2Skies):
Same goes for formula 1 since theyve rolled back the engine. Formula e and all forms of electric motorsports that are popping up. You lose 2 reasons of what makes it great. Sound and smell.

V12- a miracle sound that echos to infinity
V10- a beautiful melody made by an angel
V8- a sound so beautiful you can never forget
V6- vacuum cleaner.
 
Same goes for formula 1 since theyve rolled back the engine. Formula e and all forms of electric motorsports that are popping up. You lose 2 reasons of what makes it great. Sound and smell.

V12- a miracle sound that echos to infinity
V10- a beautiful melody made by an angel
V8- a sound so beautiful you can never forget
V6- vacuum cleaner.

I remember the Buick Turbo V6s at Indy in ‘87 & ‘88. Low rpm burble as the car went by you. Wild that they went so fast.

Here is 20k rpm, gives me goosebump:
 
That's a fair point, and I agree that points to trying to **** off the neighbors. I haven't been following closely enough to know that was part of it.
That's exactly what the YouTuber is counting on.

From the NTSB:

Upon questioning from the law judge, Mr. Pena stated that he and his wife saw the aircraft flying low again a few weeks later and they wondered whether the flight was “some type of intimidation tactic or harassment.”
 
Same goes for formula 1 since theyve rolled back the engine. Formula e and all forms of electric motorsports that are popping up. You lose 2 reasons of what makes it great. Sound and smell.

V12- a miracle sound that echos to infinity
V10- a beautiful melody made by an angel
V8- a sound so beautiful you can never forget
V6- vacuum cleaner.
Boxer motors will always be my fav - the Flat 12 of the Porsche 917 probably most... But I must do with my ole Boxter
 
Again, I'm not saying he's innocent of buzz job, I just don't see the evidence to convince me he's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
It’s administrative law, not criminal. The standard of proof is a preponderance of the evidence, not proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

I dislike it being that way. Any adverse action taken by the government (judicial branch) - whether it’s a criminal conviction or a matter of equity (paying out money to someone else, in other words, civil matters), removal or reduction of a privilege (administrative law) should require the highest standard of proof.
 
Same goes for formula 1 since theyve rolled back the engine. Formula e and all forms of electric motorsports that are popping up. You lose 2 reasons of what makes it great. Sound and smell.

V12- a miracle sound that echos to infinity
V10- a beautiful melody made by an angel
V8- a sound so beautiful you can never forget
V6- vacuum cleaner.

Wankel - the gentle purr of a kitten trapped in a blender with a nest of angry hornets.
 
I lived 10 miles from NE Dragway. One night, I heard some loud noise, sounded like jets taking off and such. Figured it was the Jet Cars Under the Stars night at the dragway. Neat, but I wouldn't want to listen to it every night. Once a year was enough.
 
V8- a sound so beautiful you can never forget
While I agree that the V6s are dull from a sound perspective, the 2.4 V8s were just an example of quantity over quality. Loud screaming, but no actual character. I'll take a V10 or Ferrari's V12 any day over the V8. Or the Cosworth DFV. Now that's a nice V8.
Can we bring back the BT46B?

Oh wait, we're talking about Trent Palmer here. I wonder if such complaints will get less frequent now that we have a path to block the average NIMBY from looking up a tail number to figure out who is endangering their children and causing them anxiety and PTSD.
 
Let's just use the definition of "congested area"... oh wait....
We might be able to play with that one if it were the sole regulatory criterion. But unless you are arguing for a rule change that says you can land anywhere you want if the area is not congested, since the 500' away rule is for "other than congested areas," it's what we have to work with.

But I guess if you feel that approaching through a back yard within 500' of the only house for 20 miles is perfectly OK so long as the overall area is uncongested, that's the way you feel.
 
And thats just it. An airport has followed all the regs in terms of construction, intent, notificaiton, etc etc etc. It is designated to have takeoffs and landings. You can do all of those things at an airport - low pass, inspection pass, touch and goes, instrument approaches if any.
I can think of both public and private charted airports where doing a low pass with no intention to land would put you within 500 feet of occupied houses, and since you don't intend to land it isn't necessary for landing. Two public airport examples come to mind. The grass runway at Y99 passes 110 feet from a house. The paved runway at 64G passes 320 feet from a house. Which regulation draws the distinction between doing a low pass with no intention of landing at those airports and doing the same thing somewhere else where a landing would be legal?
 
We might be able to play with that one if it were the sole regulatory criterion. But unless you are arguing for a rule change that says you can land anywhere you want if the area is not congested, since the 500' away rule is for "other than congested areas," it's what we have to work with.

But I guess if you feel that approaching through a back yard within 500' of the only house for 20 miles is perfectly OK so long as the overall area is uncongested, that's the way you feel.
I could be wrong, but i was under the impression that you COULD land anywhere you want, so long as it's not prohibited by state/ local law. Trent & friends do most of their landings off airport, and I'd guess he's very familiar with those laws.

Actually, what's stopping you from landing in a mall parking lot, other than "careless or reckless"?
 
Actually, what's stopping you from landing in a mall parking lot, other than "careless or reckless"?
If you have permission from the landowner (to not get trespassed) and have secured the area (to not hurt anyone), then nothing prevents you.
 
Was there any actual evidence of this second event other than their testimony? Just curious why you just choose to believe the word of the nimby over the YouTuber.
You mean the testimony under oath that the YouTuber had the opportunity to controvert if it wasn't true? No, I'm not aware of any evidence other than that. :dunno: But other evidence is pretty much irrelevant since the issue is what's in the record.
 
And y'all are assuming that he was indeed making an inspection pass, and not buzzing his friend's home.
You're surely not the only person who holds that opinion.

And here's how all those who do have come to be so certain of it.
carnac-the-magnificent-johnny-carson.gif
 
You mean the testimony under oath that the YouTuber had the opportunity to controvert if it wasn't true? No, I'm not aware of any evidence other than that. :dunno: But other evidence is pretty much irrelevant since the issue is what's in the record.
Yeah no nimby mad at someone would ever lie under oath about something you couldn’t possibly prove was a lie.

I got no beef with you not liking the YouTuber, but come on.
 
Yeah no nimby mad at someone would ever lie under oath about something you couldn’t possibly prove was a lie.

I got no beef with you not liking the YouTuber, but come on.
There are plenty of ways you can (attempt to) prove that testimony about you flying your plane in a particular place on a particular day is false, such as showing your pilot logbook with no entry that day, testifying that you didn't do it, having your alibi witness testify that you or your plane were somewhere else that day, etc. The main job of the trier of fact is to decide who is telling the truth. I wasn't even in the room when the neighbor testified about it or when other testimony controverted the neighbor. What in the trial record causes you to conclude the trier of fact got this one wrong?
 
What evidence is there of a second time?
Witness testimony under oath is evidence.
Yeah no nimby mad at someone would ever lie under oath about something you couldn’t possibly prove was a lie.

I got no beef with you not liking the YouTuber, but come on.
You've completely lost the thread because you desperately want to believe you weren't taken in by a charlatan. So desperate that you'll accuse someone you know nothing about of perjury simply because his testimony doesn't comport with the story in your head. The suspension was based on the first low pass, not the second. But the second is certainly an inconvenient fact that the YouTuber fails to mention.

Have you read the NTSB's and the circuit court's opinions? I've got no beef with you liking him, but how anyone could read the record and come to any conclusion other than he is FOS, is beyond me.
 
What evidence is there of a second time?
You asked why I believed the nimby. The answer is because of the preponderance of the evidence. It seems clear to me that Trent was shading the truth and I saw nothing to believe the nimby was. So that's why I believe the nimby even in the absence of another photo.
 
How long until the civil suit? The transcripts of the complainants testimony were full of hurt feels cuz they were scared. And that poor propane tank! Theyre all traumatized for life! Cant put a price on nightmares of bushplanes landing... in the bush...the horror! (Clutches pearls)
 
something is wrong when asking for evidence besides a nimby complaint is considered supporting the other party.

Why can’t I agree with you about the YouTuber and still think it’s foolish to believe the nimby.

Except perhaps that your biggest reason to think the YouTuber is guilty is a nimbys testimony about a second time with no proof. They had video the first time, why no video the second?
 
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For the record I don’t really hold an opinion, but I don’t believe the complainer any more than I do the YouTuber.
 
What I find interesting with these violation discussions is the lack of general context on how the process really works. 90+% of all violations are settled informally at the FSDO or regional level. Of the remaining 10%, you can probably count on one hand how many make it to the federal appeals court over a 5-year span. Regardless, when I see a private pilot with no other genuine aviation interests push a basic violation through the ALJ and board levels to the appeals court, it speaks a lot more to the underlying reasons why than the violation itself. So instead of settling for a review flight or letter and be done with it, he broadcasts his panty pain on how he was wronged. Hopefully he got enough clicks to pay for his journey and a new pair of panties.
 
Actually, what's stopping you from landing in a mall parking lot, other than "careless or reckless"?
People calling the FAA and having to talk with a federal employee
 
I landed a 150 in a mall parking lot. There was a function of some sort. Been 45 years ago. There were a dozen or so other planes there too.
 
The neighbor moved out there from a city and is scared of their own shadow. You could fly airplanes into a propane tank all day long and be lucky if you could even put a dent in it.
 
What I find interesting with these violation discussions is the lack of general context on how the process really works. 90+% of all violations are settled informally at the FSDO or regional level. Of the remaining 10%, you can probably count on one hand how many make it to the federal appeals court over a 5-year span. Regardless, when I see a private pilot with no other genuine aviation interests push a basic violation through the ALJ and board levels to the appeals court, it speaks a lot more to the underlying reasons why than the violation itself. So instead of settling for a review flight or letter and be done with it, he broadcasts his panty pain on how he was wronged. Hopefully he got enough clicks to pay for his journey and a new pair of panties.
Now, we finally arrive at the crux of the biscuit! ^^^^ This ^^^^
 
I don't even like the guy but I like the neighbor even less. I know it's a novel idea to a lot of people but how about simply calling the guy and working it out instead of this whole process. If you had a conversation and the flights were still happening, then you can report it.
 
What I find interesting with these violation discussions is the lack of general context on how the process really works. 90+% of all violations are settled informally at the FSDO or regional level. Of the remaining 10%, you can probably count on one hand how many make it to the federal appeals court over a 5-year span. Regardless, when I see a private pilot with no other genuine aviation interests push a basic violation through the ALJ and board levels to the appeals court, it speaks a lot more to the underlying reasons why than the violation itself. So instead of settling for a review flight or letter and be done with it, he broadcasts his panty pain on how he was wronged. Hopefully he got enough clicks to pay for his journey and a new pair of panties.
Bob Hoover probably has done more for aviation and this country than any 10 members of this board (myself least among them). It didn't stop the FAA from crusading against him at the end of his career, did it? I suppose Bob should have just laid down and taken it too, amirite? After all, they are the experts and know best when airmen can and can't do -- despite the fact that none of them could do what he did.

"If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary." -Federalist 51

Eff that noise. You clearly know better than Madison in 1788. May you always find the people you have in mind on the other side of the desk.
 
something is wrong when asking for evidence besides a nimby complaint is considered supporting the other party.

Why can’t I agree with you about the YouTuber and still think it’s foolish to believe the nimby.

Except perhaps that your biggest reason to think the YouTuber is guilty is a nimbys testimony about a second time with no proof. They had video the first time, why no video the second?
I don't even know what you're arguing about at this point. The second flight didn't form a basis for the violations, so it doesn't matter much what you believe in that regard with respect to his guilt. But it's one of many things in the record missing from the YouTuber's videos mischaracterizing the proceedings.

The facts that form the basis of the violations aren't really disputed (including that he flew over the property <100' agl) except for whether the YouTuber ever had a subjective intent to land, and the violations could be upheld regardless.
 
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I don't even like the guy but I like the neighbor even less. I know it's a novel idea to a lot of people but how about simply calling the guy and working it out instead of this whole process. If you had a conversation and the flights were still happening, then you can report it.

I'm of that mindset also...just a little communication can go a long way. However, I don't know the history in this case. It does appear that Trent decided to make this a hill to die on; FAFO, I suppose. I've settled a lawsuit in which my attorneys were VERY certain of a favorable verdict in litigation. However, the plaintiff settled for much less than my insurance company's legal fees would have been in defending the suit and less than I would have lost in earnings by taking off from work and appearing in court for a couple of days. Perhaps Trent would have been better served by accepting the original suspension and moving on. However, by resisting he certainly gained 'clicks' on his You Tube site.
 
I'm of that mindset also...just a little communication can go a long way. However, I don't know the history in this case. It does appear that Trent decided to make this a hill to die on; FAFO, I suppose. I've settled a lawsuit in which my attorneys were VERY certain of a favorable verdict in litigation. However, the plaintiff settled for much less than my insurance company's legal fees would have been in defending the suit and less than I would have lost in earnings by taking off from work and appearing in court for a couple of days. Perhaps Trent would have been better served by accepting the original suspension and moving on. However, by resisting he certainly gained 'clicks' on his You Tube site.
The result of Palmer taking it to the court of appeals wasn't a death penalty; it was the imposition of the suspension.

I suppose you can say he's out the cost of legal fees, etc., and just taking the suspension in the first place would have avoided all that. That's true enough, but only in hindsight. And to hold that view from the outset is dangerously close to believing that the process IS the punishment. To the extent THAT is true (and let's face it, it is) I very much think it shouldn't be, nor should it be encouraged.

I think this is and should be a different calculus than choosing to settle a civil suit for nuisance value.
 
I got no love lost for flat brim influencerstolbros, but we can chew gum and walk at the same time. This is about his real crime: The grave offense... of not genuflecting to the satisfaction of the petty functionaries. And they reminded him.

You guys call it FAFO, but that's just the life-on-your-knees view of the same picture. Same as always been. Law enforcement escalations often involve this dynamic too. Power structures are quite often obsessed with the optics of contrition and obsequiousness, even if feigned.

Admin law reminds me a lot of military "justice". I suppose the latter could be forgiven for its authoritarian bend, insofar as it was intended to retain control while under fire. But Admin law doesn't even have the pretense of that urgency. :dunno:
 
I'm starting to think that this thread is immortal. ;)
 
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