Towing question

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by 5QK, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. 5QK

    5QK Pre-Flight

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    Is it advisable to tow/pull a c182 out of a hangar by the tail tie down?

    Seems a little excessive, but thought I'd ask
     
  2. overdrive148

    overdrive148 En-Route

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    At both FBOs I worked at, we were explicitly told not to tow from anything other than the tow pins. No prop pulling and no tie down pulling. Your mileage may vary
     
  3. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    How hard is the pull? steep grade? pretty level? I really wouldn't yank it hard.

    A rope thru the tail tie down, pulled by hand, I don't believe you can hurt it.
     
  4. swingwing

    swingwing Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I use a Y cable that hooks to both landing gear steps to pull my 182 backwards into my hanger. Woks great
     
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  5. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I wouldn't do it.

    Just push the dang thing out by the struts, flip it around and hook it up, sounds like a DILLIGAF line guy.
     
  6. Twin_Flyer

    Twin_Flyer Cleared for Takeoff

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    I would check the POH. It may not be advised...
     
  7. 5QK

    5QK Pre-Flight

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    Thanks for the replies. Some backround. Plane goes in hangar nose first. Has to. When pushing out, a new pavement overlay created enough of a hump that I can't push it the foot or so over the trsnsition. Two people, no problem. I like the v rope plan with a tie to each strut step. Any other comments?
     
  8. N659HB

    N659HB Pattern Altitude

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    No room for a towbar on the nose wheel to push out?
     
  9. 5QK

    5QK Pre-Flight

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    Yes, but I can't get it over the hump at new pavement by myself.
     
  10. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Considering there’s a factory glider tow hook option for the 182, that tail tie down isn’t as fragile as folks think. The forces imparted to the same location are pretty big when doing that.

    But I get it, when folks say to be careful doing stuff like that.
     
  11. 5QK

    5QK Pre-Flight

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  12. 5QK

    5QK Pre-Flight

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    So denverpilot, you fly a 182, would you tow by the tail in my above description?
     
  13. Cooter

    Cooter Pattern Altitude

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    Some friends have a 182 that they winch into their hangar that way, and have for years. Same problem with a hump where the grass meets the concrete. They push it to the edge, then hook up the tail tie down to a winch and let it do the hard work.
     
  14. cessna182b

    cessna182b Pre-takeoff checklist

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    When I had that problem I made a towing adapter from two nylon tow straps. Attached through the loop at each landing gear leg, then joined together with a shackle.
    I used an electric hoist instead of a winch because i had one on hand. Worked great. No chance of doing any damage that way, IMHO.

    Dave
     
  15. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Jesus, they pass a medical?

    Eat a steak

    It'll be a sad day when I can't push my amphib skywagon into the hangar by myself
     
  16. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    I've seen them bent to **** trying to pull it out of mud. Cracks the aftmost bulkhead, tares the skin, buckles the stringer. Its about $10k to fix that, with a USED aft bulkhead.
     
  17. Cooter

    Cooter Pattern Altitude

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    Well that day is coming, though it may not seem like it right now. Age has a way of humbling the youthful arrogance right out of ya!

    It was a funny response though.
     
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  18. saddletramp

    saddletramp Line Up and Wait

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    The tail tiedown is pretty tough. When I put a tow hook on my 182 to pull gliders we took the tow hook ring out installed a glider tow hook & put in a grade 8 bolt with a bushing. It was per the 337.

    I towed 185 tows this summer most of them was our 1200# two-place glider. No issues. it's Cessna approved.

    I hope that gives you an idea of the strength of the tail tie down area.
     
  19. Eric Gleason

    Eric Gleason Pre-takeoff checklist

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    My CAP squadron winches the 182 backwards into the hangar. It's about a 6" incline over 20' and a bit of the lip where the asphalt stops and our concrete hangar floor begins. I can only get it in by hand if I get a head of steam, and most of our guys can't do it at all. We've been doing it that way for more than 10 years without a problem. The winch required is pretty small. It doesn't take much.

    As long as the plane can keep rolling and the load on the tiedown ring is applied smoothly, you'll be fine. If it's immobilized (like it might be if it were stuck in the mud) then you can have a problem.
     
  20. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Meh, old man strength
     
  21. Omalley1537

    Omalley1537 Line Up and Wait

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    This!^^^
    When/if you find out that the “may/should be fine” becomes “darn, it wasn’t” you will REALLY not like what kind of dent in your wallet that bulkhead repair makes...

    Hint: off with the tail, off with the skin, in with a 4.5 AMU bulkhead kit (if you buy new from Cessna, 2.6-ish from another source), plus all the labor. No thanks...
     
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  22. George Mohr

    George Mohr Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Y-rope around the struts for mine. That's what the book says (PA-28).
     
  23. brcase

    brcase Cleared for Takeoff

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    The Tow hook does have a little bit different geometry than tie down ring and may put less bending stress on the bolt than the tie down ring does when pulling backwards. At a minimum put a length of 1/4” hollow braid polypropylene rope somewhere in the line pulling the airplane. It has breaking strength of about 1000lbs and is what we use when towing gliders to protect the structure of the tow plane and glider.

    Brian
    CFIIG/ASEL
     
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  24. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ En-Route

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    There is a big difference between ground movement and towing gliders. Towing gliders your airborne and any side load on the hook pulls the tail sideways and it moves in the air. Any side load on that hook/ring on the ground gets translated through the fuselage to the resistance of the nose gear, and the aft fuselage bears the load. Hence the tail damaged as described above.

    I’m not familiar with the current tow hook installation for C182s. I think Previous installations included a Y brace inside the aft fuselage.
     
  25. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    I saw nothing indicating he was burying his wheels in mud in front of his hangar but perhaps I missed it.

    I always started my glider tows on the ground and not airborne, but ok. LOL.

    I didn’t see any indication that he was intending to turn the aircraft at the hangar either. But maybe I missed it.
     
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  26. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

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  27. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    Never noticed struts on my 140....
     
  28. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas En-Route

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    That there. The tow hook places a shear load on the bolt that is in the same spot as the tiedown ring. Other reinforcements spread that load. A tiedown ring is going to have the rope an inch or so below the surface of the skin, placing a bending load on the shank of the ring, and can drive the flange of the ring into the skin and bulkhead and crack the bulkhead if enough force is applied. It's a common problem when pilots strike the tail on the runway and bend that ring back. That structure will take a shear load a whole lot better than any bending load, and it's designed to take a mostly tensile load.

    That said, a light pull isn't going to hurt it. Use your truck on it to pull it through mud and you will break something.
     
  29. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    they are oleo struts...you'll find them under the wings if you look very carefully
     
  30. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    the topic is talking about cessnas and pushing on the struts.
     
  31. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Really? I thought it was about krispy kreme donuts and pour over coffee...
     
  32. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform Pattern Altitude

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  33. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    Catch up, Clarkbar.

    BTW I don't think towing a Cherokee by the main lg is kosher. You got a source that says it's a good idea?
     
  34. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I like a glazed donut with a dark roast. Of course a pressure brew is always better than a pour over.
     
  35. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    Well if nothing else we have similar taste in snacks.
     
  36. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you're looking for common ground that's three blocks down on the left. No donuts there.
     
  37. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    My tears are salty.
     
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  38. Luigi

    Luigi Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Some of the tugs out there cost more than my plane, and have better paint!
     
  39. George Mohr

    George Mohr Pre-takeoff checklist

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    My POH describes the procedure.
     
  40. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    I'd like to see that. My POH, and up to -E that I've seen, make no mention other than towing by the nosewheel.