Touch and Go at a towered airport?

Flyxaos

Flyxaos

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Flyxaos
Hi,

I have recently started flying again after many years not. I trained at a small airport, 86WA, Kapowsin, and didn't then do a lot of tower or radio time. I would like to start doing more radio work and get over the 'radio fright' kind of thing.

I am renting out of a small field (Harvey, S43) and want to head over to KPAE, Paine, for some work there.

I'm comfortable with the radio and procedure to get 'in' to their system, but a couple questions that I can't seem to find an explicit answer to in the AIM or otherwise.

On initial contact do I want to give them Everything? Meaning including I want Touch and Go?

When I get the "Cleared for touch and Go" or Option, Is it best to repeat that back and specify that I am doing a touch and go?

Once I am past that and on the go again with the intention of staying in the pattern and doing another, I just stay in the pattern without calls or saying intentions? If not, at what point would I say intentions?

And...Once I decide I have had enough and want to depart, I can just leave? Or inform them?

I realize that for those that do it a bunch it may go without much thought and it isn't the end of the world if I do this wrong, but I like the idea of rehearsing before hand.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

Thanks. James
 
Forget trying to use robotic verbiage like some places and people like to teach. Sound professional, but speak in plain English.

Simply give them a cold-call on the first transmission, ie., (‘Podunk Approach, Skyhawk 12345’)

then wait for them to acknowledge you by repeating your call sign back and then ask for your request by requesting a touch and go.
 
I can tell you how it works at my Class D airport.

My first calls is Skyhawk XXXX at XXX with XXX.

Tower responds - enter the left downwind and report midfield.

When I report midfield I let them know if it's a full stop or T&G
 
if you know you're going in for a few TnG's, just let them know...."Paine tower, 10 to the north inbound for a few in the pattern", or "a few TnG's", or "3 TnG's" or whatever ur doing. then they'll most likely clear you for the option or cleared TnG. instructions may be different but they might say something like "cleared for TnG/option, report midfield left downind" yadda yadda. when you're ready to go, tell them your intentions, something like "last TnG then we'll be departing to the north".
 
If you are cleared for the option you can do a T&G, low approach, or stop and go without telling the tower which option you have chosen. When it is time for a full stop, though, let them know.

Bob Gardner
CFI at Harvey 1968-1970
 
Usually if you're coming in from somewhere else, Tower will assume you want a full stop. So at some point, you'll want to tell them you want a touch & go instead. Many options for this. You can do it when you first call them up: "...inbound for some pattern work". You can do it on the downwind: "request touch and go". Or, if there's a lot going on and you forget to do this (haha!), Tower will eventually call you up and say "Cleared to land," which is your time to say, "Actually, I'd like a touch and go" so that they can revise the clearance to "Cleared touch and go". And then you repeat the clearance.

If no one has used the words "pattern work" or "closed traffic" (which is another way of saying the same thing) yet, then Tower will probably ask you before you touch-and-go something like "What are your intentions after the go?" When you say "pattern work", their clearance might include instructions such as: "Cleared touch and go, left traffic on the go."

Once you've done one pattern, Tower will generally assume you'll be there for a while. So when you're ready to leave again (or to do a full stop instead), let the Tower know this. Again, many options for when to do this; downwind is customary. Certainly before you're on final, so that Tower can plan what happens next! There's no special lingo for this, just regular English: "After this touch-and go, we'd like to depart Southbound" or "We'd like to make this one a full stop."

If they clear you for the Option, that means you can do a full stop or a touch-and-go or a low approach or a stop-and-go... you don't need to tell them which one; they have sequenced all the other traffic so that any of those things are OK to do. If Tower gives you a clearance that doesn't work for you ("to land" instead of "touch and go" or vice versa), speak up and ask for what you want. If Tower can't accommodate it for some reason, for instance if there's a jet behind you and there isn't time for a full stop, they'll tell you.

And even if you're "Cleared to Land", this still means that you can do a go-around for any reason; don't interpret the clearance as you MUST land at all costs. A Tower controller once assured me that every landing clearance is issued with an anticipation of the possibility that the pilot might be going around.

Have fun, Towers are cool,
 
I’m being taught to say “who you are, where you are, what you want” on the initial call. My CFI doesn’t want me cold calling. Did 6 full stop and gos last night at Oakland Intl. No issues.
 
I don't know where some of the other people responding are from, but here in the PNW we don't start with an open ended N number and wait. I do know that's normal in other parts of the country, but around here they feel like they're having to drag it out of you. Don't, unless the frequency is SLAMMED.

Here?
You're inbound for closed traffic with (atis). When they clear you for touch and go that is what you read back. If you've got something else in mind (like a stop and go) request that and listen very carefully because at PAE you might have a 777 up your a** so if they say touch and go for even one of those laps so that is what you read back. Or the option of you're the only plane in the pattern.
If you're done and want a full stop then ask for it and read that back. If you're ready to go back to Harvey then tell them you'd like a West departure following this next one.
 
The way I was taught and the way it works where I fly:

When approaching the field -

"McCullum Tower, Skyhawk 1356 Yankee Delta, 10 Miles NorthEast, Request Touch and Go, Hotel"

Who you speak to, Who you are, Where you are, Intentions, ATTIS

You never land unless you are cleared to land.

"Skyhawk 1356 Yankee Delta, cleared for the option runway 27, right closed traffic"

You have to confirm it back or you can't land.

"McCullum Tower, Cleared for the option runway 27, right closed traffic Skyhawk 1356 Yankee Delta"

You have to get clearance each and every time or you can't land.

"Skyhawk 1356 Yankee Delta, cleared for the option runway 27"

"McCullum Tower, Cleared for the option runway 27, Skyhawk 1356 Yankee Delta"

 
Thanks all so much for the detailed thoughts and local knowledge.

I took some points from this thread and went to Paine yesterday. Pretty fun. Not perfect, but I have never been perfect yet...

Most of my flying is me talking to the radio and it not really responding. It is definitely a different mind set to talk to and have the radio talk back. Then make sure I pay attention to relevant calls, instruction and procedure. But great practice for now and the future for sure. I will add a trip through the Paine Delta to my flights more often now.

Thanks again.
 
kath said:
Usually if you're coming in from somewhere else, Tower will assume you want a full stop.
Click to expand...

You would think but there was an absolute Delta Bravo controller at LVK. If you called up “Livermore Tower, Skylane 12345, 7 miles from the Southeast with echo” he wound respond in a very sarcastic voice “and WHAT EXACTLY can I do for you today SKYLANE 12345?“...more than once I wanted to say “A Venti Mocha with three pumps please!...after I make my full stop landing dumbazz.”
 
Hah. Had one guy in LOU who said same things but with the word “intentions”.

“get my private, retire early, maybe buy a plane. Thank you for asking”

(nope - didn’t really day that. I figured someone like that had little sense of humor ...)
 
Flyxaos said:
Thanks all so much for the detailed thoughts and local knowledge.

I took some points from this thread and went to Paine yesterday. Pretty fun. Not perfect, but I have never been perfect yet...

Most of my flying is me talking to the radio and it not really responding. It is definitely a different mind set to talk to and have the radio talk back. Then make sure I pay attention to relevant calls, instruction and procedure. But great practice for now and the future for sure. I will add a trip through the Paine Delta to my flights more often now.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Good job, just one point from me. Sometimes you run into a controller who acts like a dink. Don't let it rattle you even if it was something you screwed up. Just fix it if you can and move on. Most importantly is most controllers are not dinks so don't let the dink set your impression of ATC.
 
I am not a huge fan of wake up calls unless I am going to ask something unusual.
Also not fan of dumping everything on them at once.
I like the feed them information with Teaspoon.
instead of
podunk approached Bugsmasher 123, request?
say:
podunk approached Bugsmasher 123, Inbound
or
podunk approached Bugsmasher 123, for Touch and Goes
or
podunk approached Bugsmasher 123, Transitioning Eastbound

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
I'd like to add a recommendation to not get caught up in "local procedures". Aviation is not local. Aviation is worldwide.

One of the more challenging aspects of flying internationally is the differences between countries. We are suppose to have a standard, ICAO, but no country is 100% ICAO standard and the USA isn't even close. This creates threats of miscommunication and misunderstanding that can lead to violations and accidents.

In the US we have a set standard. The rules are set out in Title 14, CFR 1, 61, 91, etc. as well as in the AIM, advisory circulars, and other FAA publications. When an airport has a significant amount of local traffic, you often end up with the locals developing, intentionally or not, "local procedures". Pilots are trained at those airports and, very often, can't tell the difference between a "local procedure" and the actual standards and procedures in the regs, AIM, etc. They take their local procedures to airports where the pilots have never heard of them because they've been so busy flying by their own "local procedures".

Just because everyone at your airport does something a particular way does not mean that it is standard, required, or even correct. Trace your "local procedures" back to the source documents to see if they are real or not. The standard operating procedures laid out in the official source documents will work at your airport and every other US airport to which you might fly.

When a pilot asks a question about how something should be done, the correct answer does not begin with, "At my airport we, ..." or "My instructor said, ..." The correct answer is based on what the applicable source document says.
 
Flyxaos said:
When I get the "Cleared for touch and Go" or Option, Is it best to repeat that back and specify that I am doing a touch and go?
Click to expand...
If you're cleared for the option, the read back is 'cleared for the option.' If the controller needed (or wanted) to know what your exact intentions were for that approach, they would have asked and then cleared for you that specifically or given you some other instructions if what you intended to do wasn't going to work for their traffic solution.
 
brcase said:
I am not a huge fan of wake up calls unless I am going to ask something unusual.
Also not fan of dumping everything on them at once.
Click to expand...
That is supported by AIM 4-2. Specifically, AIM 4-2-3 a. 1. (d)

1. The terms initial contact or initial callup means the first radio call you make to a given facility or the first call to a different controller or FSS specialist within a facility. Use the following format:
(a) Name of the facility being called;
(b) Your full aircraft identification as filed in the flight plan or as discussed in paragraph 4-2-4, Aircraft Call Signs;
(c) When operating on an airport surface, state your position.
(d) The type of message to follow or your request if it is short; and
(e) The word “Over” if required.​
 
Flyxaos said:
Thanks all so much for the detailed thoughts and local knowledge.

I took some points from this thread and went to Paine yesterday. Pretty fun. Not perfect, but I have never been perfect yet...

Most of my flying is me talking to the radio and it not really responding. It is definitely a different mind set to talk to and have the radio talk back. Then make sure I pay attention to relevant calls, instruction and procedure. But great practice for now and the future for sure. I will add a trip through the Paine Delta to my flights more often now.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...
I feel the opposite since I did my training in and fly out of a class D. I feel 'odd' at non-towered fields broadcasting into the void. I don't usually cold call unless it sounds busy, then they just reply with 'say request'. Never had them sound offended by it. My CFI liked me to rattle of a laundry list to them and half the time I'll end up repeating stuff they missed so I make smaller chunks now.
 
I nearly always gave the full schmear at first go: Lunken tower, Skyhawk Nxxx, Blue Ash 3k w/Bravo, touch and go, remain in pattern.
Never got a complaint the thousand or so times I did it. I would only shorten the message if the frequency was busy.
 
Request the option, closed traffic.

That seems good enough at my class D.
 
Flyxaos said:
Hi,

I have recently started flying again after many years not. I trained at a small airport, 86WA, Kapowsin, and didn't then do a lot of tower or radio time. I would like to start doing more radio work and get over the 'radio fright' kind of thing.

I am renting out of a small field (Harvey, S43) and want to head over to KPAE, Paine, for some work there.

I'm comfortable with the radio and procedure to get 'in' to their system, but a couple questions that I can't seem to find an explicit answer to in the AIM or otherwise.

On initial contact do I want to give them Everything? Meaning including I want Touch and Go?

All I do is get the conversation going, once they answer me I'll make requests etc.

When I get the "Cleared for touch and Go" or Option, Is it best to repeat that back and specify that I am doing a touch and go?

I'd just read back the option

Once I am past that and on the go again with the intention of staying in the pattern and doing another, I just stay in the pattern without calls or saying intentions? If not, at what point would I say intentions?

They should ask about intentions as you are coming in for the first one not after you made it, at that point they would give pattern instructions, if they don't ask about follow-on intentions just request staying in the pattern for a few more.

And...Once I decide I have had enough and want to depart, I can just leave? Or inform them?

As you come around on the last one just tell them this will be the last and request where you want to go

I realize that for those that do it a bunch it may go without much thought and it isn't the end of the world if I do this wrong, but I like the idea of rehearsing before hand.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

Thanks. James

The more I listen to the radio the more I catch other people screwing up voice comms, everyone does it.
Click to expand...
 
I fly out of a delta, I just get it over with. Hanscom tower, Cirrus xyz, 10 northwest, tango, land. For taxi, Hanscom ground, Cirrus xyz, old tees, sierra, taxi. For touch and goes, I'll do the same thing. XXXX Tower , Cirrus XYZ, 8 south, tango, touch and goes.


Leave all the extraneous words out. They know what you want. But that said, different areas want different things, you can't know all the different requirements because they generally aren't published anywhere. So I just do what I know, if it doesn't work they let you know.
 
Citation 123, Confirm you have weather and notams. Information x ray is current.

uhh standby...
 
Flyxaos said:
Hi,

I have recently started flying again after many years not. I trained at a small airport, 86WA, Kapowsin, and didn't then do a lot of tower or radio time. I would like to start doing more radio work and get over the 'radio fright' kind of thing.

I am renting out of a small field (Harvey, S43) and want to head over to KPAE, Paine, for some work there.

I'm comfortable with the radio and procedure to get 'in' to their system, but a couple questions that I can't seem to find an explicit answer to in the AIM or otherwise.

On initial contact do I want to give them Everything? Meaning including I want Touch and Go?

Listen to how busy they are, if they are talking to a lot of aircraft where you can't hardly get a word in, then check in with your callsign and say " with request." They may not answer right away but they know you have something to ask and will get back to you when they can. If they are not busy then give them the whole thing on initial call up including the current ATIS code. The goal is to make as few radio calls as possible and for God's sake, don't just say, "Podunk tower Cessna 1234" Why make 4 calls when 2 will do? If you are talking to a Tracon prior to contacting the tower, they will get your approach request and add it to your data tag so the tower will already know what you want to do.

When I get the "Cleared for touch and Go" or Option, Is it best to repeat that back and specify that I am doing a touch and go?

Read anything back. That way the tower will know you heard them. It isn't necessary to correct the tower if they clear you for the option and you want a touch and go or full stop. You are cleared for all the above already.

Once I am past that and on the go again with the intention of staying in the pattern and doing another, I just stay in the pattern without calls or saying intentions? If not, at what point would I say intentions?

Once you've cleaned the plane up and climbing out, request closed traffic with landing intentions

And...Once I decide I have had enough and want to depart, I can just leave? Or inform them?

Simply tell them you are climbing out and departing to (direction you wish to go)

I realize that for those that do it a bunch it may go without much thought and it isn't the end of the world if I do this wrong, but I like the idea of rehearsing before hand.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

Thanks. James
Click to expand...
 
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