I'm pretty sure that all the Kias from 2012 forward have chains except the 2.7 V6. Not sure about Hyundai offhand, but it's probably the same. My Kia has a chain.
-Rich
Timing belt kit? (2010 Elantra)
- Thread starter bnt83
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I'm pretty sure that all the Kias from 2012 forward have chains except the 2.7 V6. Not sure about Hyundai offhand, but it's probably the same. My Kia has a chain.
-Rich
The belts are a little quieter, too, especially on a dual- or quad-cam engine. That matters to some people.
Rich
You have to be either crazy or destitute not to change the water pump while you're in there.
Rich
And -- you're quoting me, why?
Sac Arrow
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It's unlikely any modern DOHC engine isn't an interference engine. Still, one tow at an inopportune moment and location can cost a lot of dollars.
I had an early 70's model Capri with the 2.0L Ford engine. The timing belt broke with no damage. No biggie to fix. The bigger issue with modern transverse mounted engines is that you often have to take a LOT of crap out to replace the timing belt, sometimes suspension parts.
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Easier to control NHV with a belt, the rubber has a dampening/quieting effect.
Alexb2000
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Expectations of modern vehicles are incredible. Someone having to spend $600-$700 every 90K is outrageous for many. Plenty don't and then proclaim brand X as a POS because the timing belt broke.
Just search on timing belt replacement and you'll find thousands of comments across every brand about, "Do I really need a timing belt?". Then of course someone will say no just look at it and if it looks good keep running it.
I have pulled many broken belts that looked very good on the outside, almost passable for new.
Why?
Timing belts run under a cover and don't get the same exposure as accessory belts. That and the compound they use on a timing belt is different from the typical accessory belt.
Timing belts usually break down from the inside. By that I mean the laced fibers inside the belt break down over time and mileage. It isn't something you can inspect from the outside.
Second thing that happens is they stretch. That's why they all have tensioners to take up the stretch over the life of the belt. I just pulled an original belt of a 1MZ Toyota with 200K on it. The cam timing was off by literally 1.5". The belt looked great and I initially thought someone had replaced it that didn't know what they were doing. Anyway, the owner played russian roulette and won, but lost a lot of efficiency and performance over the years with the cam timing being so far off.
Remember when engines barely lasted 100K? We shouldn't complain.
Just search on timing belt replacement and you'll find thousands of comments across every brand about, "Do I really need a timing belt?". Then of course someone will say no just look at it and if it looks good keep running it.
I have pulled many broken belts that looked very good on the outside, almost passable for new.
Why?
Timing belts run under a cover and don't get the same exposure as accessory belts. That and the compound they use on a timing belt is different from the typical accessory belt.
Timing belts usually break down from the inside. By that I mean the laced fibers inside the belt break down over time and mileage. It isn't something you can inspect from the outside.
Second thing that happens is they stretch. That's why they all have tensioners to take up the stretch over the life of the belt. I just pulled an original belt of a 1MZ Toyota with 200K on it. The cam timing was off by literally 1.5". The belt looked great and I initially thought someone had replaced it that didn't know what they were doing. Anyway, the owner played russian roulette and won, but lost a lot of efficiency and performance over the years with the cam timing being so far off.
Remember when engines barely lasted 100K? We shouldn't complain.
How does it save "you" cost if it needs to get replaced as a prophylactic measure 5 years or less into ownership?
No, the real reason is that it, along with a bunch of other flimsy components, saves a couple pounds to help meet "CAFE" federal requirements.
I'll bet the shop charges full book rate to change the pump out even though half the engine compartment has already been emptied to get at the belt.
Lol, not cost to consumer, cost to build gets reduced increasing profit.
Alexb2000
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No reputable shop or dealer does. Most charge flat rate around 4 hours depending on vehicle including the pump. The pump alone on some would be 4 hours, that's why everyone says replace it with the belt, BWTHDIK.
MAKG1
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No, they are commonly used on OHCs so they can spin faster. That's free power. 6000 RPM is common on these, right off the showroom floor. A 1975 SBC might do 4500 if you're lucky.
Have you ever seen what a SBC cam gear looks like after 100,000 miles? Compare that to a belt driven cam sprocket after twice that.
I've had a 302 Chevy spin 12,700 rpm, timing chain/belt plays no roll, setting up a push rod valve train is what's challenging, but not something that can't be over come, usually with a set of springs that press down on the tappet body. A stock SBC will turn 6000 rpm without a problem.
I called the Toyota dealer in Rexberg Idaho, where I bought my truck... They quoted me 1055.00 to install the timing belt, tensioner and new water pump...
bnt83
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I called the Toyota dealer in Rexberg Idaho, where I bought my truck... They quoted me 1055.00 to install the timing belt, tensioner and new water pump...
YIKES!!!!!!
Yeah, I'd that myself too.
Who runs an auto engine at 4500, much less 6000 RPM?
MAKG1
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I do, in bursts (e.g., getting on the highway). When climbing steep mountains, for longer times.
It's how you get performance out of a small engine.
It's amazing how many people complain about "weak" engines while trying to nurse them along at 1200 RPM. I'll climb the Sierra in 3rd at highway speed in the VW. It might be a bit loud, but it does it just fine.
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Most people hit 4500 under acceleration, and if you go for full performance you'll hit 6.
MAKG1
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I called the Toyota dealer in Rexberg Idaho, where I bought my truck... They quoted me 1055.00 to install the timing belt, tensioner and new water pump...
For labor alone, or is half that the water pump?
If it ain't broken now, a road trip to save $500 might be worth it.
Does your Toyota have a timing belt driven water pump? Many of them do not.
And some FWD Toyotas "require" pulling the engine to get more than 1/2 inch clearance between the water pump and frame (so you can remove it), but a clever mechanic can jack up the front of the engine. It's not standard practice.
For a basic Toyota RWD pickup engine (e.g., 22R), it's hard to imagine it requiring more than removing the radiator for clearance.
There is NO REASON to ever use a dealer mechanic for anything other than warranty service.
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That price was parts and materials..... I spent 130.00 in parts..
That is over 800 dollars for 3 hours labor......
I was born at night.. But NOT last night,,,
MAKG1
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That price was parts and materials..... I spent 130.00 in parts..
That is over 800 dollars for 3 hours labor......
I was born at night.. But NOT last night,,,
3 hours labor based on what?
Some cars can change a timing belt in 1-2 hours. Some require a day or more. It all depends on what's in the way.
It took me 3.5 hours.. next time I could do it in less then 2... 05 Tundra V-6 ... Removed the radiator and shroud.... Put in the new timing belt, tensioner, water pump, thermostat and new fan belts.....
dealer told me it was a 9 hour job...
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That likely is the the book on it. There were few jobs I couldn't beat flat rate 3:1 especially after the first time.
Yeah, fair point.
Alexb2000
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It is a late year 04 3.4 V-6
Alexb2000
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Good motor. The timing belt, water pump, etc. is about $400 Wholesale. I would say that dealer tried to hit you a little hard. With your skills… no biggie. I'm surprised you even bothered with an estimate.
bnt83
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I finally moved the airplane over and backed the car in and went to town on this over the weekend. I discovered that a Hyundai Elantra does indeed fit under a 1968 Cessna 177 when on jacks to remove the RH Front tire.
Jesse stopped by for about an hour and his impact wrench made crankshaft pulley bolt removal a breeze. I was very happy that the crank pulley came off without fighting. The lower plastic timing belt cover is a bit of mystery tho. Jesse spent a good 15 minutes trying to get it out and it took me about 30 seconds to pull it. Of course it took me about an hour to get it back in lol.
The air-conditioner belt was shot. Everything else looked pretty good and original. There was corrosion on some fastener threads but was still quite surprised how clean everything really was. I was expecting more stubborn fasteners.
The old timing belt tensioner was stamped Gates, Kia and Hyundai. All belts just said Hyundai.
Torqueing the crank pulley bolt was cake thanks to a tip in this thread.
Jesse stopped by for about an hour and his impact wrench made crankshaft pulley bolt removal a breeze. I was very happy that the crank pulley came off without fighting. The lower plastic timing belt cover is a bit of mystery tho. Jesse spent a good 15 minutes trying to get it out and it took me about 30 seconds to pull it. Of course it took me about an hour to get it back in lol.
The air-conditioner belt was shot. Everything else looked pretty good and original. There was corrosion on some fastener threads but was still quite surprised how clean everything really was. I was expecting more stubborn fasteners.
The old timing belt tensioner was stamped Gates, Kia and Hyundai. All belts just said Hyundai.
Torqueing the crank pulley bolt was cake thanks to a tip in this thread.
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Alexb2000
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Glad you got it done and it all went well.
Elantra's are really pretty good to work on given a choice of all modern cars.
Elantra's are really pretty good to work on given a choice of all modern cars.
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Nice work!
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I don't know if I'd consider a TB major surgery, especially if your leaving the heads on.
My Z and my girls Sentra both have chains, '09 and '06 respectively. Nice to know a tensioner is all it may ever need in that category.
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last week the guy in the hangar next to mine changed the timing belt on some sort of Audi. Had the whole front end off the car. Bumper, radiator, trans. cooler, plus the valve covers. If it wasn't major surgery it was an extended office visit...
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My grandmother would look at me like I was absolutely out of my mind when I told her my old BMW was pushing 250K. Even when she was still driving she would sell all her cars at around 100K, even only driven by her in pristine condition, habit I guess. She probably still couldn't get over that one family vacation when the hudson threw a rod on I-5
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Yeah, Audis are, well, different. Pulling a trans cooler, radiator and valve covers I would consider pretty standard for most rear wheel drive TB jobs. The bumper though
Try a 2000 Camaro. I was commissioned to pull the heads of a V6 version, you've gotta drop the motor, trans and suspension out of the bottom of the car. All that trouble for a stupidly under-powered POS.
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It's amazing how long engines last compared to 50 years ago.
My dad owned a big commercial sheet metal business in the 60's and 70's. He had about 20 pickups, and they went TBO at 50,000-70,000 miles. He would have the engine rebuilt and paint/upholstery if needed.
He hired a retired Army Master Sergeant as a full time mechanic, the guy was awesome. I learned a lot from him.
My dad owned a big commercial sheet metal business in the 60's and 70's. He had about 20 pickups, and they went TBO at 50,000-70,000 miles. He would have the engine rebuilt and paint/upholstery if needed.
He hired a retired Army Master Sergeant as a full time mechanic, the guy was awesome. I learned a lot from him.