Things I Learn in IFR Training - Who Knew?

For my check ride, I took off, put the hood on at about 400 feet, then flew for about 15 minutes, turns, communications, general stuff. Then we did unusual attitudes. After that he let me turn on the AP, I loaded up the first approach, went missed, established the hold flew a circuit, all with the AP. Loaded the next approach, went missed with a touch and go, asked for vectors to load the third approach. Once I was ready, flew the last approach, a circle to land, by hand. That was it. Had to show proficiency hand flying and with the AP.
 
WDD said:
Holding Altitude: Tricks?

What I'm focusing on now is holding / not busting altitude (+/- 100). I think this will be the one area I might be at most danger with. I find on the sim I'm fighting it with yoke, then trim, then sometimes throttle. In the sim I seed to get a bit of pilot induced oscillation. Any tricks to offer?
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No idea on the sim but in the plane, once it's trimmed and on altitude don't accept any deviation! If it's starting to get off alt it's going to continue, or worse accelerate, that deviation so it's a lot easier to fix a small deviation before it becomes a big one. Once it's a big one it's easy to fixate on correcting it and your scan goes to pieces and now you're fixing two things! :mad: Yea, I still screw it up too.
 
Sounds like an even better argument for using the "spoke" scan, making the attitude indicator the "home" instrument. Although still a ways to go, things have picked up greatly since I started doing that.
 
WDD said:
Sounds like an even better argument for using the "spoke" scan, making the attitude indicator the "home" instrument. Although still a ways to go, things have picked up greatly since I started doing that.
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More than likely you just started focusing on a scan and therefore scan better.
 
Larry in TN said:
Pitch control.

Look at the attitude indicator (AI). Find the pitch attitude that holds level flight in your current configuration and power setting. Hold that pitch attitude. If you are low, increase the attitude to something above the level pitch attitude. If you are high, decrease it below the level attitude. If configuration and/or power changes, you'll need a new level pitch reference.

It works the same for holding a glide slope, i.e. holding a fixed rate-of-descent on approach. Establish the attitude that delivers the desired performance then bracket it up/down to make corrections.

Your instrument scan goes from the AI, to something else you need to check, then right back to the AI. Check that the bank angle and pitch attitude is where you want it then scan to the next other instrument, and right back to the AI. AI, something, AI, something, AI, something, AI, etc.
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Why is that special for holding? Isn’t that just how to fly in IMC?
 
I think he said it helps as well with holding a constant glide slope not “fly in a published hold”.
 
MauleSkinner said:
More than likely you just started focusing on a scan and therefore scan better.
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Worse than that. My first cfii didn’t explain how to use he AI. In fact he said he didn’t really use it.
 
WDD said:
Worse than that. My first cfii didn’t explain how to use he AI. In fact he said he didn’t really use it.
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My CFII let me see it for about 2 or 3 of the 30 hours training we did. I didn’t learn to use one until I got into jets.

Trim is your friend. ;) (As well as a clear understanding of how pitot/static instruments work, which I don’t believe is taught adequately.)
 
Which takes longer: learning to fly IFR or the ground school portion?

I have the jeppesen IFR book from 2015; is it obsolete with adf, ndb, loran, and hopefully other stuff no one cares about or is every system ever made still on the test?

I’m just learning for safety/proficiency so that I can visit my retired friends who saved their money instead of having expensive hobbies.
 
WDD said:
Holding Altitude: Tricks?

What I'm focusing on now is holding / not busting altitude (+/- 100). I think this will be the one area I might be at most danger with. I find on the sim I'm fighting it with yoke, then trim, then sometimes throttle. In the sim I seed to get a bit of pilot induced oscillation. Any tricks to offer?
Click to expand...
If you bust altitude, it means you got distracted from your scan (maybe fixating on your GPS screen, a radio call, a chart, the CDI, or whatever). If you keep coming back to the AI, VSI, and ALT in your scan, you won't bust altitude.
 
WDD said:
Sounds like an even better argument for using the "spoke" scan, making the attitude indicator the "home" instrument. Although still a ways to go, things have picked up greatly since I started doing that.
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I like Rod Machado's "musical scan" — same idea. Band leaders like Lawrence Welk used to count in "a ONE and a TWO and a…", so you do that, with whatever else you need to look at (DG, CDI, ALT, TC, whatever) on the "ONE" and then the AI on "TWO" every time.
 
MauleSkinner said:
My CFII let me see it for about 2 or 3 of the 30 hours training we did. I didn’t learn to use one until I got into jets.
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I was taught similarly. Since then, after seeing loads of folks saying use the AI as the base then scan and keep coming back to the AI, I wonder if I was taught wrong. Good to see at least one other CFII taught like mine did.
 
David Megginson said:
I like Rod Machado's "musical scan" — same idea. Band leaders like Lawrence Welk used to count in "a ONE and a TWO and a…", so you do that, with whatever else you need to look at (DG, CDI, ALT, TC, whatever) on the "ONE" and then the AI on "TWO" every time.
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Yes. I got his e learning course and became a convert to his hub and spoke drill. LW not quite my generation - but I get your point.
 
Randomskylane said:
Which takes longer: learning to fly IFR or the ground school portion?
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Depends a bit on how you learn things. I took a cram course (3 days) for the written. Pretty much forgot everything . Learned it for real flying and prepping for oral. For me, I needed to apply it to learn it.
 
Well - could be worse I guess ….

567644B0-CD08-45FD-B957-8BAEB61B038B.jpeg
 
I guess I'm old. When I learned to fly IFR it was needle, ball & airspeed in an OH-13 ( bell 47g). When I retired all you had to do was push a button and the MD 902 would take down to centerline 40' above the runway.
 
When flying the heading given by ATC, CFII said don't use the GTN "track", as it's not the heading, it's your track. Use the HSI. But the HSI isn't as reliable or granular with the data it gives you. Better to eyeball what track you should be on and fly the heading via the GTN, or use the vacuum powered HSI?

Can you configure the GTN 650 to provide your magnetic heading? I don't see it in the options menu.

I assume the heading indicated on a G5 and/or 275 is magnetic and not track from the GTN. Correct?

Something else "ah ha". Rate of decent is Ground Speed X 5 for precision landing. For Non Precision, rate of decent is Ground Speed X 6.

Circle to Land = not squaring off the downwind to base to final. Just curve it onto the runway. Start the "circle" / curve to the runway when abeam. Now, I assume that if the field ceiling is high and it is full of VFR traffic, one would adjust. But for the check ride fly it like you have a low / barely above minimum.
 
The purple looks to be not your actual track but the desired track.
 
Good to know - thanks
 
Must be that magnetic personality you have…….
 
Took my written yesterday. Things I think helped:
1. Much advice offered to do the written before flying. I really disagree, perhaps coming at it from the point of an older learner. Flying helped the book learning and regular meetings with CFII helped with concepts via questioning or demonstration. I want more of this as I still have not seen IM, MM, OM annunciations or lights amongst other things.
2. Some radio work made the test stuff seem real.
3. I did the Sporty's online, it was good info but I really felt woefully underprepared to test, test scores showed as much.
4. For private I added in fly8ma, did this also but then time got short.
5. Holding patterns were made so much easier by 5-10 minutes listening to Jan.
6. Captain Joe videos on holding patterns helped some until I found Jan.
7. I casually got started using Sheppard Air a while ago. Using an Ipad so I could carry it any where. Opening charts or figures on the ipad it got really difficult to see everything and was clunky. If I offered one piece of advice to those using Sheppard it would be BUY THE TEST SUPPLEMENT, I think mine came with some other book. https://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/4426 This test supplement made sure I would have the actual book in my hands, the same one I would use during the test. Look through the legends in the front, they might come in handy. Using this book also kept me from the frustration of going back and forth.
8. Once I made sure I got an endorsement to test via sportys I set aside a week before test date and worked the Sheppard Air program as much as I could tolerate. This took a lot of work but was a great exercise as I took the time to read and understand subjects. I learned plates better (though reinforced by flying). This was overall a painful process, stress was felt in upper back and neck. At times I would just do 10-20 questions at a time. The 400+ question section was most painful. I completed this one at the start of the week and went over it again the day before the test. Slept poorly, did another 150 questions over night. Reviewed marked questions over and over until I had them down.

97

Now to finish the flying and focus on oral/practical!
 
4RNB said:
Took my written yesterday. Things I think helped:
1. Much advice offered to do the written before flying. I really disagree, perhaps coming at it from the point of an older learner. Flying helped the book learning and regular meetings with CFII helped with concepts via questioning or demonstration. I want more of this as I still have not seen IM, MM, OM annunciations or lights amongst other things.
2. Some radio work made the test stuff seem real.
3. I did the Sporty's online, it was good info but I really felt woefully underprepared to test, test scores showed as much.
4. For private I added in fly8ma, did this also but then time got short.
5. Holding patterns were made so much easier by 5-10 minutes listening to Jan.
6. Captain Joe videos on holding patterns helped some until I found Jan.
7. I casually got started using Sheppard Air a while ago. Using an Ipad so I could carry it any where. Opening charts or figures on the ipad it got really difficult to see everything and was clunky. If I offered one piece of advice to those using Sheppard it would be BUY THE TEST SUPPLEMENT, I think mine came with some other book. https://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/4426 This test supplement made sure I would have the actual book in my hands, the same one I would use during the test. Look through the legends in the front, they might come in handy. Using this book also kept me from the frustration of going back and forth.
8. Once I made sure I got an endorsement to test via sportys I set aside a week before test date and worked the Sheppard Air program as much as I could tolerate. This took a lot of work but was a great exercise as I took the time to read and understand subjects. I learned plates better (though reinforced by flying). This was overall a painful process, stress was felt in upper back and neck. At times I would just do 10-20 questions at a time. The 400+ question section was most painful. I completed this one at the start of the week and went over it again the day before the test. Slept poorly, did another 150 questions over night. Reviewed marked questions over and over until I had them down.

97

Now to finish the flying and focus on oral/practical!
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97. Whadya do, spell your name wrong?
 
WDD said:
Can you configure the GTN 650 to provide your magnetic heading? I don't see it in the options menu.
Click to expand...
The GTN can probably (I can’t remember for sure) get heading data from other units, for purposes like calculating your true airspeed and winds based on your heading, pressure altitude, airspeed, OAT, and GPS track and ground speed. But it doesn’t have a built-in magnetometer or other means to determine your heading, and isn’t the best display of it. When you are vectored to fly a heading, you fly that heading. That’s why you need to regularly verify your directional gyro or HSI is aligned with your compass.

If ATC gives you a vector and you are 20 degrees off because your DG precessed during your flight (vectors are more common near the end of a long flight, such as vectors to final for your approach), they will not be amused. Ask how I know.
 
WDD said:
***DELETIA***

2) When scanning the Attitude Indicator, use the turn needle on top for bank control. I hadn't paid attention to it before.

***DELETIA***
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Rule of thumb to determine (within limits in our common piston pounder planes) bank angle that will get you close to a standard rate turn: Mentally divide IAS by 10 and add 5. i.e. a 172 with 115 KIAS will require aprx 16-17 degrees of bank (115/10)+5 to get you to standard rate. actually, just drop the last digit and add 5 and you're in the ballpark.

It gets you in the ballpark. You're not rebuilding a Rolex watch under a microscope, you're flying a 2500 lb assembly of aluminum and steel...;)
 
BryanAV8R said:
You're not rebuilding a Rolex watch under a microscope
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That's a very good way to look at a lot of things in aviation. The engineers do the calculus to many decimal places on the ground. Trying to do the same in the air can become a big distraction. As pilots, we need to maintain the overall 'big picture' of the flight.
 
GTN "Bearing" is a very handy thing to have when you switch from Vectors to Final to "go to the IF instead". That and having "Dist" (as well as Dist to Destination") will get you to the IF where you can then turn on Desired Track.
 
WDD said:
.........."Something else "ah ha". Rate of decent is Ground Speed X 5 for precision landing. For Non Precision, rate of decent is Ground Speed X 6......"
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That can vary. There's some pretty steep Approaches out there.
 
For the first time, I missed intersecting an approach, lost situational awareness. My error. :mad: I've narrowed it down to putting the VOR freq in the second radio for the hold right before I should have been focused. I also have been relying only on the GTN and not the needles for intercept. The newish CFII also told me to use the Map funciton on the I PAD as well as the GTN for situational awarenss. My current/soon to be former (she's leaving for the airlines in 2 weeks) emphasized never look at the moving map - only used the instruments / default screen on the GTN.

I'll now be doing instruments/default screen on GTN AS WELL AS checking the moving map AS WELL AS checking the needles for intercept.

Also learned:
  1. Turning the runway lights on even in broad daylight can be helpful - especially when landing on runway 27 with a setting sun
  2. New CFII, and old Navy guy, was demonstrating what a spiral looked like as a consequence if I lost control in an unusual attitude. Did not know a Skywawk could bank that far over, turn that tight, pushed back into seat as I was, and get airsick so quickly. (No, didn't need to use the bag, but did quickly tell the CFII - OK, we're done with that, level it out now please).
    • Did I mention he did this demonstration right after half a dozen "close your eyes", banking and weaving for a few hours (OK, not that long), and then look at instruments with the hood on?
    • "Next time, can ya just do one manuever to put it in unusual attitude? We're not dodging SAMS". :)
 
Got some more training time with the old Navy guy. He wants 4 hours after work on Wed. I'm not going to make 4 hours. Last Saturday he stretched it out to 3 hours, and I was - tired. BUT - glad I'm able to get a CFII and a plane! This year has been hard between the CFII demand and weather.
 
WDD said:
"Next time, can ya just do one manuever to put it in unusual attitude? We're not dodging SAMS"
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How do you know? I thought your eyes were supposed to be closed :p
 
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