Things I Learn in IFR Training - Who Knew?

Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by WDD, Jan 27, 2021.

  1. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Just starting, and I'm tripping over things that were a complete blank for me before training, and not even covered in the written test material.

    1) When ATC gives you a vector, you follow your heading indicator. ATC takes into account wind, and the vector they give you will put you on the correct track.

    2) When scanning the Attitude Indicator, use the turn needle on top for bank control. I hadn't paid attention to it before.

    3) Few airports have SID's

    4) Bonus: I studied the approach brief, made notes on it with pink highlighter so it would stand out. I'm training after work, so end up quickly flying at night. At night, you use what color light in the cockpit?
     
  2. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Despite the pink highlighter, hope you're enjoying it.
    Look forward to more posts as you progress!
     
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  3. IK04

    IK04 Pattern Altitude

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    Pink is the best color for marking charts for night flight.

    Green is bad.
     
  4. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Check out the offerings from Gary Reeves at PilotSafety.org

    good stuff
     
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  5. NorthEast Ohio

    NorthEast Ohio Pre-Flight

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    1. True
    2. True
    3. True
    4. No. 2 Pencil color
     
  6. Possum

    Possum Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I'm about to wrap up my instrument training and move on to the check ride. Here are some observations.

    1] When studying an approach, start at the end and work towards the beginning. That is, highlight the missed and the missed instructions first, followed by the approach minimums, and work backwards to the FAF, the altitudes etc. Have a clear understanding what is expected for the missed and the minimums.

    2] Get the the frequencies loaded including AWOS. I was on a practice ILS and failed to load the tower frequency. In mater of seconds I was way behind the airplane loading the tower frequency while on the approach.

    3] Learn to hold altitude and heading. Altitude within 100' and heading 10 degrees.

    Just a few thoughts........
     
  7. noahfong

    noahfong Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I can't disagree more. Consider a conventional approach, say a VOR....the first two things, reading left to right, top to bottom, is VOR frequency and final approach course. These by far are the most important things. And you're going to give them last priority?!!?

    Brief left to right and top to bottom. Doesn't matter if Jepp charts or not.
     
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  8. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    That’s why Jepp put the Briefing Strip (TM) on the charts in the first place, and why the government charts also have something similar.

    the problem I see is pilots reading through the chart as something completely separate from setting up an/or verifying setup of the approach. Doesn’t do a lot of good to read the inbound course if the inbound course never shows up on the panel.

    oh, yeah...
    Magenta. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
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  9. somorris

    somorris Pattern Altitude

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    Another thing to add to the list is to double check your NAV frequency to be sure you have it dialed in correctly. Listen for the identifier on an ILS.
     
  10. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Something else. When being directed they don’t always take you first to the IAF. I was thinking it must always be IAF, middle, final, etc. They can take you straight to the middle or FAF to start the approach.
     
  11. somorris

    somorris Pattern Altitude

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    Well it sounds like you are enjoying the learning! It is good to see someone enjoying rather than complaining! Way to go!
     
  12. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    I see it as a choice to find things to enjoy (learning something new) vs dwelling on the fact that I don't know what I'm doing LOL.
     
  13. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    Or use a radio that does it for you and puts it up on the screen. :)
     
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  14. Possum

    Possum Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Definitely not giving the approach course last priority. Just emphasizing the importance of knowing the missed instructions and DA before you begin. That's all. In a recent thread it was mentioned that two IFR accidents occurred while executing missed approaches. A missed will be on the instrument check ride for certain. In many ways flying a missed could be more difficult than the approach.
     
  15. danhagan

    danhagan Pattern Altitude

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    Black Sharpie is the WORST!:p:confused:
     
  16. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Better than a pink highlighter under a red light!
     
  17. IK04

    IK04 Pattern Altitude

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    Who uses red cockpit lighting any more?

    That is so last century!
     
  18. IK04

    IK04 Pattern Altitude

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    On the FAA/DoD charts, I adopted a briefing that starts at the top right corner of the chart and continues counter-clockwise around until all of the data has been briefed.

    That ends up somewhere in the plan view in a blank area to write the ATIS code or other info.

    It follows the chronological flow of the approach and has served me well...
     
  19. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    The plane I rent is from the last century! LOL
     
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  20. Deelee

    Deelee Cleared for Takeoff

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    Don't do this. Top to bottom. They are laid out this way for a reason. Every II I have every talked to teaches it like this.... Ask your II before changing how you brief the approach.

    Yeah, when I started IR training, I was caught a bit off guard by this too. But it is more the norm than not around here at least... vectors usually put me somewhere between an IAF (or an IF) and the FAF. They'll say, "xxx miles from FUBAR, fly heading xxx maintain xxxx until established, cleared ILS xx ... For RNAV, usually get vectored to a fix, but not necessarily an IAF to start the approach... maybe that is more common here I dunno...
     
  21. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    They do their best, but sometimes it takes them a couple of tries with our slow little airplanes and huge wind-correction angles. When the day comes that we can all follow GPS tracks, I'm sure they'll breathe a big sigh of relief, but that day isn't yet, so you're absolutely right that we need to stick with the heading indicator for the foreseeable future.

    On a related note, if ATC has said "say heading" and then given you a vector, don't make a big adjustment to your DG right after that (by comparing with your mag compass), or you're really messing with them. If you think a vector might be coming soon (e.g. you're getting close to an approach, or about to transit through a busy terminal area), take a moment to update your DG before they give you that vector.

    Exception: if you're about to fly an NDB approach, by all means, keep that DG as accurate as possible.
     
  22. Deelee

    Deelee Cleared for Takeoff

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    Aren't you supposed to say - "Heading" After keying the mic?
    Just like when they say, "N123R, say parking." --- "Parking"

    @WDD DON'T DO THIS PLS! :rofl: But for some reason, every time I hear ATC give those instructions, I say into the unkeyed mic - "Heading" or "Parking"... and then I chuckle to myself.
     
  23. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    "N123R, say cancel IFR." ;)
     
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  24. chemgeek

    chemgeek Pattern Altitude

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    If you call up the approach plate on your EFB, it lights itself at night. And you can jot on it if you must for most EFB apps. If flying at night, have backup lighting available. I wear a visor light on my cap with red/white lighting. I usually use the red. It is very efficient at lighting what you are looking at if the lights go out of if you are just trying to find the pencil you dropped. But with electronic displays (G5s), they light themselves, too. MUCH better than the dimly lit panel and vacuum instruments.

    Enjoy your training. The IR was both the most fun and challenging training I have done as a pilot.
     
  25. somorris

    somorris Pattern Altitude

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    The one we own is also from the last century! :)
     
  26. noahfong

    noahfong Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I want to comment on your phrase, "... before you begin." My guess is something happened during your training for you to make this conclusion and give this advice. You're right in that knowing the missed approach is very important. If you cover all the "boxes" on the approach chart, you won't miss the missed approach instructions. Both Jepp and FAA do not place the missed approach as first priority.

    "Briefing strip" items are not placed there randomly. It has been thought out. It is meant to be briefed like you read a book, left to right, top to bottom. The most important thing is that one should not skip around, just like one does not skip around items of a checklist. And, definitely, don't skip anything. Everything may not apply, but don't skip anything.
     
  27. flybill

    flybill Pre-Flight

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    You will not be sent straight to a FAF. You must be vectored a minimum of 2 miles outside a FAF to start an approach.
     
  28. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I’ve been reading a few accidents where pilots did not seem to know where it would be that they would make the decision to go missed.
    It was not verbalized in the cockpit (these were CVR-equipped aircraft) in the briefing, or in some cases at the point in time when it was needed.
    So, I think it should be clearly discussed by pilots (or self-briefed, if solo) “DH is XXX feet indicated, if we don’t have the required item(s) we go missed”. “MAP is 0.5DME, if we don’t.... we go missed”

    (Adding in some self discipline at the time required goes a long way to prevent a lot of these accidents)

    A prepared pilot is also saying ‘hey this is pretty low vis so we should be mentally prepared to (do this thing we always train for but rarely do), go missed - and if so, our plan is to.. (try again/go to KXYZ/hold for 45 mins (you know how long you are able to hold for, right?).
    The worst thing is to be thinking ‘this’ll be like so those other flights, we’ll be in the fbo shortly...’
     
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  29. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    I also disagree with the briefing order -- plates are laid out (generally) in the order you need things. Top left to bottom right. Can argue which is better, FAA or Help, but thought was put into both.

    Probably more importantly, following an exact pattern on the page allows for easier knowing where you left off if you get interrupted -- and you will get interrupted. Some start over completely if there's time. Sometimes there's not enough time.

    Finally if you do use a different technique, always be consistent. But... If you ever transition to two pilot required crewed aircraft, realize that your briefing technique will likely clash with either the training and standards used or at least not mesh with 90% of fellow pilots out there. Having someone run a briefing all out of order (them to you or you to them) will be unsettling at best, usually just annoying most of the time, and a safety problem at worst when things don't register as they should in your head.

    As far as setting frequencies and such, note where they are on the plate? Right up top. Set em and identify em as soon as practicable. Identifying is becoming a lost art in the GPS era both because of GPS approaches and also because some receivers ID for you. But make sure ID is in the checklist and you fully understand how an auto-Identified navaid is depicted in your particular cockpit gadgetry and use the ID step to confirm it's indicated.
     
  30. LesGawlik

    LesGawlik Pre-takeoff checklist

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    My plane is even older. It's from the last millennium.
     
  31. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    Why does the FAA put "AUTHORIZATION REQUIRED" in the bottom left?
     
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  32. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Few airports have SIDs, but many more have ODPs. Look them up, fly them, save your life!
     
  33. drummer4468

    drummer4468 Pre-Flight

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    Glad I wasn't the only one who took a while to get this concept. I spent way too long overworking myself, figuring out wind corrections and whatnot, until it we were finally flying on a real IFR plan and my instructor told me to just fly the indicated heading. Made life much easier lol
     
  34. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    Lol. Note: "(generally)".

    One could argue that most folks would know if they're going somewhere that has restricted approaches long before they're looking at the approach plate.

    If they're using it for an emergency then they probably don't care.
     
  35. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    P.S. I navigate by DF steer. Lol
     
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  36. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    It'd be interesting to see the radar plot of that RF leg. :)
     
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  37. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Today's "Who would have thought" Bracketing

    To stay on a radial, don't use the heading indicator. Use the Attitude Indicator. Bank 10 degrees, back to level. Repeat until needle stops moving. Repeat once to get needle to move to center. Repeat in opposite direction to keep needle in middle. Repeat but at 5 degrees of bank left and/or right to keep needle centered.

    Not use the heading indicator to do this? Never entered my mind.
     
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  38. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Yup.. that was something I wasn't expecting either. I've also been given "direct to" waypoints that are not on the VTF.. so I always load the approach from an IAF.. just to have
     
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  39. Bill

    Bill Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Yup, always load the most likely IAF, you can always choose vectors later, but the other way around is a giant PITA.
     
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  40. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    I personally wouldn't do it that way with a VOR, because it would lead to chasing the CDI as it scallops. I've used a similar technique for hand-flying an ILS, but found that it made for a lot more work than just flying a heading and bracketing that.

    The AI is always primary, of course. You use it to keep the wings level, and cross-check with the DG that your heading isn't drifting. Chasing the heading bug directly would be almost as bad as chasing the CDI.