The testing center has accused me of cheating on my IR written.

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by SixPapaCharlie, Feb 14, 2020.

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  1. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I doubt that the FAA will take punitive action. But I do think that they have to investigate, because frankly, anybody whose had to study for one of these tests would want them to investigate any possibility of cheating. Which means FAA personnel and testing center personnel will be wasting their time for this "joke".

    Sometimes we end up with stupid rules because we have people that don't know where to draw the line without a stupid rule forcing them.
     
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  2. PPC1052

    PPC1052 En-Route

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    I agree with you that the FAA will probably not take punitive action against Bryan for cheating after all of the investigation has been completed. Like you, I also think the FAA will conclude that it is something that must be investigated. And because the FAA thinks it is something that must be investigated, it is something that the test center must report or risk losing their certification or other lesser sanction for failing to report an incident of possible cheating.
     
  3. Crow

    Crow Filing Flight Plan

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    It will probably be investigated for the simple reason after some shootings and other crimes that have been committed that the authorities had prior knowledge they don't take chances anymore.
     
  4. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    The FSDO that was REQUIRED to investigate because someone REPORTED it.

    Both cases the same. Idiots reporting things.

    I definitely would not worry in the slightest about cheating posts online — about a facility I ran. BECAUSE I OWN THE CAMERA and I know my staff did their job monitoring test takers.

    The only reason to worry is if they aren’t doing the proctor job correctly. Uh oh. Could it be? Or did they get caught before? Would explain the paranoia.

    Here’s your scenario:

    FAA: “Did you guys see that post on Facebook that someone asked a question from a phone during one of your tests?”
    Proctor: “Yeah. Did you forget we have cameras and a proctor watching them? He posted that from the parking lot two hours before he walked in.”
    FAA: “Ahh I see that now. Thanks. Okay bye.”

    Or your evil FAA guy scenario:

    FAA: “I don’t believe you.”
    Proctor: “I already reviewed the video. Where do you want your copy sent?”

    What it really looks like to me, is the school marm at AF thinks outside customers need to be treated like his typical instructors and students ... who he stuffs into uniforms and pretends he’s running a little airline.

    What other possible mentality would have him admitting he “wanted to punish” an adult customer walking in off the street?

    LOL. More Epaulets! Punishment!

    You don’t say that to a customer. Unless you’re regularly “punishing” someone else at your place of work. That’s truly insane.
     
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  5. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    You’re equating asking a joke question about a single test question ...

    ... in a written test pool of hundreds of questions...

    ... to a person with 16 in person contacts with the FBI...

    ... who did nothing...

    ... shooting people?

    Wow. That’s truly the stupidest thing I’ve read online this week.

    Or an expert troll post.
     
  6. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    You're taking this thread way too personal. I almost always agree with you, but you're really stretching on this one. You don't seem to be able to see that this is more than the silly things you have been meme'ing
     
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  7. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    I disagree...there was no discernible test question there. ;)
     
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  8. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    It’s only “more” than a joke because the proctor is truly stupid. I assume also a CFI.

    Tell me. What would your response be to an idiot from a flight school on the phone telling you they reported you to FAA because they “wanted to punish you”?

    I guarantee Bryan was probably nicer than I would have been.

    It’s not personal. We just don’t need people that stupid running anything at flight schools or anywhere near aviation.

    Go be a mall cop if you think your role in life is to “punish” a customer by forcing a government investigation on them, instead of just asking them or looking at your own camera footage.

    Or as Engvall would say...

    “Yeah genius. I was cheating on a test from your parking lot. Here’s your sign.”
     
  9. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Nah...mom took care of anything that needed to take care of
     
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  10. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I'm sorry you can't put yourself into their shoes and see that Bryan's joke inconvenienced them and he deserves what he's getting. I doubt they had the discretion NOT to support it, but you can't seem to see that. I don't understand why. Cheating on a federal test is no small deal. I also find it interesting that you take Bryan's word for what a third party said without any question at all. Not that I think he's lying, but it's VERY possible he misconstrued or even misremembered the exact words used. The next cheater can use this as an excuse to say "no, it was just a joke, like that Bryan guy". It opens a can of worms and leads to senseless investigations and more rules. This was a terrible "joke".
     
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  11. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    I feel badly for Bryan. I truly do. He’s honestly funny with *most* of his postings, but things are not always perfect and this is a prime example.

    Actually I usually chuckle at his posts, but this one just wasn’t funny... regardless of the cheating thing.

    Do I think he cheated? No.
    Do I think he used poor judgment and crossed the line with this latest post? Yes.

    Do I wish him well with the future hoops he may have to jump through? Absolute effing lutely.
     
  12. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Ahhh. Right. Running your business is an inconvenience and we all deserve to be punished with a Federal investigation if we inconvenience a puppy mill staffer.

    Because they did.


    It’s impossible to cheat on a test by asking a question that isn’t an actual question anyway, from a parking lot. Nor is it putting anyone at any risk whatsoever since you can’t pass a practical anyway by the answer to one question.

    Ooh. It’s a “federal test”. I forgot. That makes it a big deal automatically. No.

    I’ve already mentioned just how important it is with FAA not closing Sheppard down. Clearly FAA isn’t truly concerned about it.

    And no. Boilerplate text that says “if you see something, say something” isn’t any indication of any sort of real concern.


    I know him personally. Yes it counts for something.

    But I’ve clearly stated why it doesn’t matter multiple times. You say I’m missing things. You keep purposefully ignoring that dum dum there at AF has a camera.


    I’ve already described how anybody can post a completely untraceable complaint on every single social media site that anyone is cheating.

    I wish the hacker community was interested in SWATting test takers. You can look up that term. It’s real.

    If every test facility had at least ten false FB complaints per day, they’d quickly forget all about worrying about anything but their job... a working camera and someone smart enough to look at the video.

    Please let me know when you or anyone you care about is about to take a test. I’ll make sure to mention to some hackers who are bored that they can get you a permanent investigation record with an untraceable social media post.

    Well only if a moron who wants to punish them reads it. Darn. It always comes back to one idiot who panicked about the Internet. Look at that!

    Guess who won’t panic. A non flight school connected testing facility. The entire internet is full of posts joking about cheating or wanting to cheat on tests that are much harder. Federal ones even.

    Normal testing site: YAWN! We have CAMERAS and proctors who do it professionally and aren’t forced to do it as a side gig as flight instructors... to make the puppy mill more profitable...

    If you’re saying FAA might be scrutinizing these puppy mills, yeah... I could see that. :)
     
  13. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    So Sheppard is the best test prep?
     
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  14. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    I think Nate should be on Bryan's defense team.
     
  15. smv

    smv Line Up and Wait

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    Here is the funny part about "tagging" a location in FaceCrack... You do not have to actually be somewhere to create a post from that location. You can "be" anywhere in the world with a FB post.
     
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  16. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

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    You've missed the mark here, Nate. The test proctors I've seen at AF are not CFI's, they are usually reception and/or bookkeepers.
     
  17. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    Quite simply, this is yet another example of "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes".
     
  18. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    I’m guessing it wasn’t a front desk person or bookkeeper who called the Feds.

    Or said they wanted to punish Bryan.
     
  19. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    I guess I thought that was obvious, but I think there’s more old farts around here than I thought. Judging by how many take the internet seriously. LOL.
     
  20. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    You seem to think it’s ok to do any dumb thing on the internet and there should be no repercussions.
     
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  21. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

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    Its very easy to say 'if I had such and such I would do this...' Its quite another thing to tie up your actual money into an actual business which relies on authority granted by the FAA in order to provide certain services and which can have that authority revoked without much recourse if the FAA would happen to decide that you did not follow the letter of their policy to report all incidents or allegations of cheating.

    Glad to know that you're tough as nails and you wouldn't bat an eyelash at risking your operating authority by deciding for yourself how the FAA will feel about your interpretation of their policies. But I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you're going to expect every other business owner to do exactly as you would do in this sort of situation.
     
  22. geezer

    geezer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    This is going to bubble and boil until the first day of April.

    Then charlie 6 pack is going to shout "APRIL FOOLS".

    Then some of us will laugh..........others, not.
     
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  23. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Pretty much. Yeah. Here’s why.

    Innocent people have been killed by SWATting. I told you to look it up.

    Most official reactions to internet bull**** are extremely overblown and very few seem to realize how infinitely easy it is to manipulate.

    (As I’ve pointed out, very few above a certain age even know how to turn on their damn computers. Including the FAA guy I watched try to log in for half an hour one day. His coworkers were clearly ignoring his attempts to blame the computer again, and didn’t come to his aid anymore. They probably once did. People learn quickly. “Call tech support!” They literally yelled from down the hall. The guy wasn’t qualified or capable to work a desktop PC and badge reader.)

    I lived a mile from where a bunch of hut hut cops literally blew the entire back of a guy’s house off to get at a Walmart shoplifter. Then his city told him he couldn’t rebuild it the same as it was because code changed for drainage. Then he lost over seven years in Federal court suing them for damages.

    Also live where a cop passed out in his patrol car drunk at over five times the legal limit was covered up with no consequences and no convictions.

    Just using the cop stories because they’re egregious and easy to look up and not dismiss with a hand wave like the dead computer gamers who get SWATted. Or millions of others who deal with bureaucracy daily for no actual societal benefit.

    Bigger picture point is, without TOUGH laws against REPORTING false crime, the Internet is about the last place anybody should be reporting anything from.

    Remember. I killed Epstein. Let someone know!

    Defending a moron who can’t tell a comment like that is not any actual harm to anybody isn’t a path to righteousness. It’s a path to insanity.

    We close down places now for fake bomb threats. Fine. But still stupid. We also ignore real ones, so what’s the point?

    But worse, we annoy millions with false accusations because our stupid society refuses to learn how to use computers and not have emotional reactions without any attempt to reach the person who they think did something from an online post.

    All you have to do to Bryan’s comment is hit reply and say,

    “I assume you know we have cameras on all test takers.”

    There. Look at that. So easy. Communicate.

    1. Bryan realizes he’s “inconvenienced” a blowhard.
    2. Blowhard’s “reputation” online (that he didn’t have) is saved.
    3. PSI and FAA both know Officer Punishment is on Facebook patrol.
    4. Nobody has a permanent Federal investigation record.

    There’s really nothing hard about it until you are up to actual threats and not just “he said something against groupthink — double plus bad”.

    Which is all this one is.

    Off to go let the slave up out of the basement now. The Gimp is hungry.

    Make sure to call the cops on me. I’m definitely hiding someone in my basement.
     
  24. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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  25. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Oh hell no. I expect most businesses are stupid like they are.

    Disappointment assumes I think they can be saved from that level of computer and internet stupidity. I’m not even surprised. Have I indicated otherwise?

    But if I’m their customer and they pull that ****, they’re not going to like the consequences.

    Bryan is way too nice.

    If I come to you paying for a service as dumb as “watch me click on a computer and run a camera” that’s it.

    You take it upon yourself to extend that service to my social media and the parking lot, didn’t bother to contact me if you misunderstood something, and also go start a Federal investigation on me?

    You started the fight. I’ll make damn sure you’ve lost as much time and money as I have from it, before we are through.

    And it won’t take me much time at all. Well worth every minute too. You’ll regret it.

    Thankfully I rarely do business with vendors that dumb.

    PSI certainly rates up there, but I’ve already known that for a long time after seeing the typical “flight school” PSI franchise and flight school / computer illiterate guy running it until it was closed.

    Like I said above, lots of other tests with them at their much more professional locations.
     
  26. smv

    smv Line Up and Wait

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    Heh... I am not much of a FBer. I have an account because some of the activites in which I participate seem to have gravitated to it for their primary information dissemination method. One day a buddy of mine (I do not have any FB "friends" I do not know personally) "checked in" in Singapore. Then a couple hours later, in Alaska. Figured out pretty quick what was happening. o_O
     
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  27. SixPapaCharlie

    SixPapaCharlie May the force be with you

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    I was in my bed.
     
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  28. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    #bandozer
    Ok I've stayed out of this thread up until now, but I can't go without responding to this. Your kids seriously let you stay in bed until after 8:30 AM on a weekend? I'm lucky if I get to sleep until 6 AM on weekends before the miserable alarm clocks - sorry, cute little bundles of joy - come barging into my room every 5 minutes having the following exchange:

    One of my kids: "DADDY ARE YOU AWAKE YET?!"
    Me: "Oh you sweet little bundle of joy did you need something?"

    (the response I typed in the line above may or may not be an accurate representation of what I actually say to my kids in response to repeated awakenings)
     
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  29. NoHeat

    NoHeat En-Route

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    Depending on the specifics, there might be a good alibi there.

    But whether to use it, that can depend on the situation, as in the country and western standard "Long Black Veil."

     
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  30. SixPapaCharlie

    SixPapaCharlie May the force be with you

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    Things have been really really rocky at work. We cut 25% of our Staff last week and my wife has been a saint giving me a LOT of space to deal with this.
    Normally the kids climb into bed on the weekends and beg us to get up but the last couple weeks have been horrible.
    We made the Cuts on Thursday. I had to cut 1/2 my team. Both mornings last weekend she has gotten up and gotten the kids' wants and needs addressed. I slept until 9 on Saturday and probably would have Sunday as well if not for the test.

    But yes normally, I can't get the kids out of bed on week days and on the weekends, they are ready to get up about an hour before me.
     
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  31. -KLB-

    -KLB- Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I’m so sorry. The last place I worked, layoffs were a nearly quarterly event for 8 years. Eventually one of the managers decided to base staff retention choices on the growth projections of the products supported rather than performance appraisals or other criteria, and I was definitely supporting a shrinking legacy product. Both of my tell tales, the people who I figured that if they were let go, it was time to start hunting, were let go the same day I was. In my exit interview, I think I did more trying to cheer up my boss than anything else. One of the others did not take it at all well, and it was bothering him. By the time I saw him, I knew enough about who else went that day, that I had zero interest in being left there holding the bag. As disruptive as that day was, that night and going forward was some of the best sleep I had in a long time. I no longer had the anxiety of wondering if my HRID was in the pool for the next round, and I never previously realized entirely how much it was bothering me.

    Let’s hope your company can right the ship, you don’t have more rounds, and that the workload is bearable with what you have left. And I hope all your displaced staff easily find new opportunities. Dallas seems to be one of the hottest IT markets, so there is hope.
     
  32. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Sorry to hear this Bryan.
    I've been through too many of these sorts of "downsizings", "rightsizings", "restructuring", or whatever the overpaid management consultants and HR Depts are calling them these days (anybody who's worked in the oil patch for any length of time can't hardly avoid them).

    Take time to take care of yourself man - sleep, exercise, family time.

    After enduring multiple rounds of these, about 20 years ago I made a promise to myself I wouldn't ever stay in a company that wasn't growing.
     
  33. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

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    You must be tons of fun at a party. :rolleyes:
     
  34. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    That really sucks, Bryan, I'm sorry to hear that.

    To be fair, my wife is also pretty good about doing that a lot of weekend days when she's home. But since she's gone 50% of weekends, on those days it comes down to explaining to the kids "Waking up daddy super early = grumpy dad and while momma ain't happy ain't nobody happy if daddy ain't happy and there ain't no momma around your life will still not be fun."
     
  35. kayoh190

    kayoh190 Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    He works in IT. Thinking everyone else is an idiot is part of the job description. :)

    [​IMG]
     
  36. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Ahh, Bryan is the one who included the companies social media into his joke. Its not like they went out to look for his post, they got a 'dinggg, you have been tagged on 6PCs post' message on their page. Can't wave it in their face and then expect to be ignored.
     
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  37. Arnold

    Arnold Line Up and Wait

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    So if I understand you correctly. No one should take anything they read on the internet as anything but a joke.

    Example: The internet tells the authorities, via a post, that xyz house will be invaded by gun wielding thieves who intend to kill the occupants because money is owed for a drug deal. Should the authorities ignore the post because everything on the internet is garbage? Should they make an effort to protect the occupants? If the authorities ignore the post and the occupants are slaughtered including a few children, should the authorities be held accountable, after all, they had a warning?
     
  38. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

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    This is the reason al gore should be arrested for inventing the internet.
     
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  39. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

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    He could share a cell with Tipper Gore, who should be arrested for founding the Parents Music Resource Center.
     
  40. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    Let's see: Bryan, after a prior post about doing stuff against the regs and the resultant result, does essentially the same thing again, and gets the same result. The fact (if it is one) that someone want to punish him is irrelevant. It's a strawman; anyone who was interested in the integrity of testing could have reported it in good faith.
    You are blaming the wrong person for wasting the FAA's and testing center's time.
     
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