The slowdown that airliners do on approach

Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by Jake, Nov 12, 2016.

  1. Jake

    Jake Filing Flight Plan

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    When I fly commercial (I'm not a pilot...yet) as we approach the airfield the jet makes a very noticeable slowdown. Would this be pulling back the throttle, lowering flap, or something else? I'm pretty sure it isn't the landing gear as I think I hear that much closer.
     
  2. Kelvin

    Kelvin En-Route

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    It's all of that AND the landing gear.
     
  3. Jake

    Jake Filing Flight Plan

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    The gear too? Seems like we're really moving but I just looked and Airbus 320 is gear down at 250 knots and lands around 150?
     
  4. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Final Approach

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    Throttle, flaps, speed brakes, gear and if needed the pilots put their hands out the windows.
     
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  5. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Jets will pick up speed like crazy in the descent, so why you are noticing initially at the begging of the descent from cruise is a significant power reduction. If they are having to work to get done, they will throw out the spoilers (you'll see that on the top of the wing). The gear and flaps obviously much closer to the airport and you will hear and feel.

    In some of the early jets, there were other tricks to get down, but you won't see much of that anymore.
     
  6. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Thrust levers and speed brakes are best friends.
     
  7. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Final Approach

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    The DC-8 could deploy the inboard engines' (#2 & 3) thrust reversers.
     
  8. Acrodustertoo

    Acrodustertoo Ejection Handle Pulled

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    They are dumping all their fuel over congested areas. Or for they only do this over Sedona ?
     
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  9. FlySince9

    FlySince9 Pattern Altitude

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    It's not polite to tell a jet jock he/she is adjusting the throttle... Those are Thrusters/thrust-levers... at least that's what an Airforce LtCol told me once...:rolleyes:
     
  10. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Airline pilots just jockey the thrust levers , speed up, slow down, and anything else you can think of, to make passengers think we're flying the Space Shuttle...thrust vectors? :);)
     
  11. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The chemtrail nozzles cause a significant speed reduction.
     
  12. Jake

    Jake Filing Flight Plan

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    I hate when that happens. One would think they'd be more efficient, what with the decades of experience.
     
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  13. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Exactly. Don't see much if that anymore.
     
  14. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Depends on how slow ATC wants us. Coming from the south, NY wants us at 250/11000 at a specific fix and they'll tell us to keep 180 until a 5 mile final. At smaller out stations, they usually don't assign us a speed because there's a lot less sequencing and traffic.
     
  15. GRG55

    GRG55 En-Route

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    DC-8's? Inboard engines? Thrust reverser? Or answer "d", all of the above? :D
     
  16. GRG55

    GRG55 En-Route

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    [​IMG]
     
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  17. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I asked a guy who used to fly DC8's why they can't get the damn airplane down once. He told me about using the thrust reversers but said they could only do that when they were hauling frieght, not passengers. Might have just been his company's rule, I didn't ask that.
     
  18. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I have that card (somewhere) that I've been intending to frame someday. :thumbsup:
     
  19. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Final Approach

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    Yes.
     
  20. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Final Approach

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    I was on a flight on a DC-8 back in 1983 going into Japan on my way to Korea and they deployed the reversers in order to get down. Of course, I guess being in the Army at the time, we were considered freight.
     
  21. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Flew on a DC8 going to Germany, had us (military charter) packed in there like sardines, and then flew to Korea in one too, "Stretched 8" I think they called it.

    upload_2016-11-12_9-43-47.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2016
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  22. KSCessnaDriver

    KSCessnaDriver Pattern Altitude

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    Spoilers, the CRJ has spoilers. God forbid you ever fly with a Mesaba Avro guy, they'll roast you for that one.
     
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  23. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I did the sardine can thing going to Japan. Going home a year a later I got a good book to read and started the line at the terminal at Yokota 2 hours before boarding to get the emergency exit row. The stews occupied the window seat during takeoffs and landings and was empty the rest of the time. I had elbow room for the 8 or so hour flight back and could stretch the legs.
     
  24. aterpster

    aterpster Pattern Altitude

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    We called them throttles at TWA.
     
  25. aterpster

    aterpster Pattern Altitude

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    Not an operating limitation, but the buffet was so bad it would scare the passengers.
     
  26. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

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    One substantial reduction at 10,000 feet for the 250 knot speed restriction. Several smaller ones to 180 knots, or maybe one all at once to the final approach fix and one last one at the final approach fix to slow to final approach speed.

    I think the most noticeable one is at 10,000 feet.
     
  27. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou En-Route

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    Next time, get a window seat on/behind the wing and watch the control surfaces. Flaps are normally easy to hear and spot, spoilers are nicely visible on top of the wings (and cause a decent buffet) and you should also be able to hear engine tone change.

    That should be normally over the FAF or even earlier if they are too fast and need to throw it out to slow down. But you can usually feel the gear unlatch and drop and then feel the deceleration.

    Enjoy flying commercial while you can! Once you become a pilot, you might stop liking it. ;)
     
  28. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Line Up and Wait

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    On the 320 the plan is to be at idle thrust all the way down from cruise. Sometimes it works sometimes not. Most airframes rumble wth the boards up and have a large increase in wind speed as the gear comes down. On the 320 the gear is referred to as the rubber speed brakes, if you get behind it or atc jams you, sometimes it's the only way to get down and slow down. The 321 is the worst of the family in that respect.

    Bob
     
  29. iflyvfr

    iflyvfr Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Interesting about deploying the spoilers on descent. A couple weeks ago coming from BWI to CMH on Southwest and sitting just behind the wing I noticed the spoilers deployed as we descended. I was tempted to ask about it here because I don't recall seeing that before. I took a screen shot of Garmin Pilot which I was running on my phone at the time. I like to play 'guess the arrival procedure' as a way to learn more about the app and it's fun to follow along.
    spoiled.JPG ifr.PNG
     
  30. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    United certainly did it plenty of times when passengers were aboard. Used to ride the -8 with them all the time (The -8 was also the first to have ATC-on-9 I believe).
     
  31. aterpster

    aterpster Pattern Altitude

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    I recall one of our captains that would always point to the speed brake handle when he had a controller riding the jump seat and state, "These are for my mistakes, not yours."
     
  32. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

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    I've heard that, too. But that attitude doesn't work today. Simpler times then.
     
  33. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Line Up and Wait

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    Reversing the inboards inflight produced a lot of noise and vibration. It certainly would frighten passengers who weren't accustomed to it. As the airplanes aged the wear and tear from inflight reverse led to us being discouraged from using it. I can only remember using inflight reverse in the DC8 twice in roughly 1200 hours.

    In the 737s that I fly now, we can't go below about 210 knots without extending flaps. Gear goes down at roughly 2000' above/6mi from touchdown. Landing flaps between 1000' and 1500' above touchdown. ATC typically assigns 170-180kts until the FAP at the bigger airports. Slowest speed on final can be as low as in the mid-130s (737-700) or as high as the high 170s (737-900 w/gusty winds). Typical is in the 145kt-155kt range. Had to do a go-around yesterday because approach put us 2.5mi behind an E145 and I couldn't fly any slower than 153kts on final.
     
  34. aterpster

    aterpster Pattern Altitude

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    I thought it was rude in any era.
     
  35. geneseib

    geneseib Line Up and Wait

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    They slow to 250 knots when passing 10,000 feet. Is that what you are talking about?
     
  36. aterpster

    aterpster Pattern Altitude

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    At some of the very busy airports STARs often have speed reductions above 10,000.
     
  37. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    And some of the busier terminal areas will start speed restricting arrivals even without a STAR.
     
  38. Unit74

    Unit74 En-Route

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    Calling BS......computers are doing it all now.
     
  39. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Wrong. Maybe you're thinking of auto throttles, not all jets have them. I flew the CJ 200,700, and 900, all without auto throttles. But the 700 & 900 did have FADEC. Yes computers control and do a lot in modern airplanes, but not all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
  40. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Final Approach

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    Oh no, it's true. Computers can slow down anything even airplanes.