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Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by LongRoadBob, Dec 13, 2017.
Just an observation:
We make a lot of mountains out of mole hills around here.
The highest peaks for sure!
lol.. a little altitude mixed with density
Don’t act like you’ve never said it, because I’m willing to bet you have.
I used to say "with you" in the belief that it was a useful heads up to the controller that I was new on his frequency. After reading the general opprobrium about this on internet forums, I repented.
As for ATITPPA, I have never said it but can see its usefulness in some situations. Say you're IFR, single pilot, and Approach dumps you off to Unicom 1 or 2 minutes out. You haven't been monitoring Unicom. Asking anyone in the pattern to speak up seems reasonable to me. I don't understand why the FAA would single out this one phrase in the AIM.
And yet I'd imagine even with my "with yous" my "illiterate" self probably would come off on the radio as much more experienced than some PPL radio nazi.
In the big picture, if you think "with you" makes that much of a difference, let alone makes someone sound "illiterate" you have much to learn young grasshopper.
Why hasn’t the pilot been monitoring Unicom? That’s not my problem. If I’ve been making my position reports, I’m fine. I’m not going to answer any pilot that uses ATITAPA. The “with you” thing really isn’t a big deal. I don’t use it because it’s redundant. The controller obviously knows you’re “with him” if you are talking on his frequency
So you're going to degrade saftey to prove a point?
Because the other guy was acting dumb, I'll show him, I'll act even dumber, do you like law darts, because this is how you turn yourself into a lawn dart.
<finger snap> That's it! We should just say, "departure, bugsmasher one two three is talking on your frequency."
Then again, that makes "with you" sound pretty good in comparison. I've recently been subjected to "..and departure, bugsmasher one two three is climbing through three thousand for five thousand."
The IFR pilot who isn’t monitoring Unicom is causing a safety issue. If I’m making my required reporting points, I’m doing my job. My job isn’t to answer ATITPPA. I’ve already been doing it.
Pilot only has one radio
Second radio is inoperable
Pilot has been monitoring other frequencies, and doesn't have a third radio
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I was told that's the way to do it: " Departure, bugsmasher 123, level 3 thousand" or "Departure, bugsmasher 123, 2 thousand, climbing 3 thousand" , is that wrong now?
No, he's referring to the habit of starting a transmission with the word "AND". It's pretty darned stupid (and ungrammatical as well).
Pilot has a one channel brain and avoids having two radios chattering at once.
All these things are going to get stuck in my head and come out in the air, lol.
+1 I'm "with you" as well
Why else would be here?
Wow. Just . . . Wow.
"aaand attention to any traffic in the pattern, bug smasher 12345 is with you on 123.00, please advise if the FBO restaurant is serving pork or fish today, I've just come in from far away, and I'm starving."
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If he made that call he's at least monitoring it part time
I'd personally announce my position, at least that way I know I did everything I could do to help with everyone's situational awareness.
The logic is along the same lines as someone who pushes their right of way with a semi truck, even if you're right, there's a chance you're going to loose
<--------here in 'this part' of the US it's "I reckon I'm with y'all"
I'm far from an expert in the field of what makes one sound like a "loser" on the frequency. I'm guessing I have somewhere over 25,000 hours of flying, instructing and on frequency ATC. Pretty much none of the minor things listed on this thread bothers me as a pilot or as a controller.... especially "with you".
He: "Honey, I'm home!"
She (a graduate of University of POA): "Look, moron, you're obviously here in this house so you don't need to tell me that. You're wasting my time and our acoustic bandwidth if you say anything more than who you're addressing and who you are. So let's practice: 'Honey ... I.' 'Honey ... I.' Got that, you loser?"
I'm "with you" on that.
I've been taught clear concise language on the radio, better to leave extra words out, especially on initial contact to a frequency where you have no idea how busy the controller is. I have no where near the experience you have, just over 200 hours, rusty pilot coming back at it in the past few months. I will say that "with you" was not the only phrase, there were a couple other things that we discussed then, and the gist of the conversation was not that someone who uses those phrases is a loser, the point was that if you behave professionally and project that you know what you are doing you will end up with a controller who is more comfortable with you and more trusting that you will not screw up, if you sound amateur you will be handled like one.
It's funny, at least I think so, that I commented to that instructor when I was told that, WTF do I care if a controller thinks I'm a loser, at which point the lesson was driven home.
It's my belief that if we are nervous about saying the wrong thing on the radio, we, as pilots need to study more and get it down. Again, I haven't dealt with the system as much as you, but my experience is that most controllers are great, like anyone else, sometimes you hear one having a bad day, but even then are still pretty good. There was one, a long time ago, who would lose it sometimes at a busy field I used to fly in, even then, a supervisor would just step in .
You’d lose the bet.
And this is not the only jargon phrase that grates on me. I also refuse to say “airspeed alive”, which sounds like a line from a 1950s grade B movie
We all have our pet peeves, and pilot jargon is one of mine. As a student pilot, I would already love to see a moratorium on “glass cockpit”, “steam gauges” and a bunch of other expressions that might have been original when coined but have quickly become, for me at least, beyond tiresome.
We’s fixin’ to turn base, y’all.
I mean you absolutely no disrespect but how do you already have established pet peeves as a student pilot still? As a student pilot I was still so enthralled by becoming a pilot and all things aviation that I didn't have a single pet peeve (thought of terms being tiresome) of any of the people that were already aviating.
Do you say anything verbally to allow your instructor to know that the ASI is indeed working properly and you referenced it on departure roll? "airspeed active", "airspeed working", etc
It would seem to me that as a student, perhaps you're focusing on the wrong part of flying.
I would like to see anything in reference to a red handle here on POA become a banable offense but I doubt that would happen.
It’s news to me that one is supposed to be so enthralled with flying that one is supposed to leave one’s views on plain language behind, although that is clearly what happens to people who jump on the jargon.
I think you’ll find that people outside the U.S. are able to express the concept behind “airspeed alive” without sounding like a B-Movie starring Tom Cruise.
“Do you say anything verbally to allow your instructor...”.
Off hand, I can’t think of any way to say something without being verbal, unless I’m doing something like playing the piano, which I don’t typically do in an aircraft cockpit.
“the people that were already aviating”
Are these the same people who in plain English go flying?
Maybe I’m not sufficiently indoctrinated yet, but I can’t quite see myself saying to a friend “Let’s go aviating this weekend”. Unless I want to see him go into a paroxysm of laughter while spitting out his coffee.
I don't say "with you", but I do normally say "(callsign) checking in FLXXX" or something during center or approach handoffs. Probably just as irritating to some. "Aaaaand" is both something that irritates me, as well as something I sometimes say....I then hate myself for several seconds. Seriously though, I don't think any of this really matters as long as you aren't the person who takes 12 sentences and 30 seconds of frequency time to say 5 words worth of information. Then again, I have a backseater now, who does all the "talking" for me......so I'm just the annoying peanut gallery these days
At least you are consistent. Please do let us know when you become a pilot as I'd like to be able to congratulate you on your achievement.
Enjoy your endeavor (*training to become a pilot).
What do you even need a CFI for, you already know it all, thank you for your excellence
Rory you must be a peach of a student is all I have to say. Do you have a CFI that's willing to even fly with you?
I need a CFI to learn how to fly a plane. I don’t need a CFI to teach me how to speak in plain English. I especially don’t need to learn how to speak in plain English from people steeped in jargon.
Interesting that that proposition has apparently hit a nerve.
He refuses to say "airspeed alive" but uses words like paroxysm.
How are ya doin’ Steve?
What you you say to indicate that the airspeed indicator is working? How would you feel if you were sitting in the right seat and not able to see the airspeed so that you can make sure your student is able to tell when to rotate (sorry, more jargon) the aircraft?
What would you call "steam gauges"?
There’s this concept called irony.
That aside, the word “paroxysm” in the phrase “he fell into a paroxysm of laughter” has become so common that it should be understood by anybody at roughly junior high school reading level.
Hit a nerve? Dude you live or die it means nothing to me, it's just comical reading your "expertise" on matters you have very little experience in. Good luck youre going to need it
Airspeed alive, I say that, at least in my head, every time. Pretty important.
You'd be annoying to fly with. I can tell.