The phrase "With You"

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by LongRoadBob, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    3,633
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    Just an observation:

    We make a lot of mountains out of mole hills around here.
     
  2. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    16,957
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    The highest peaks for sure!
     
  3. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    Owensboro, KY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Skyrys62
    lol.. a little altitude mixed with density :lol:
     
    mscard88 likes this.
  4. Ryanb

    Ryanb En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    4,985
    Location:
    SE Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Don’t act like you’ve never said it, because I’m willing to bet you have.
     
    mscard88 likes this.
  5. DoubleD

    DoubleD Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    111
    Location:
    Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    David
    I used to say "with you" in the belief that it was a useful heads up to the controller that I was new on his frequency. After reading the general opprobrium about this on internet forums, I repented.

    As for ATITPPA, I have never said it but can see its usefulness in some situations. Say you're IFR, single pilot, and Approach dumps you off to Unicom 1 or 2 minutes out. You haven't been monitoring Unicom. Asking anyone in the pattern to speak up seems reasonable to me. I don't understand why the FAA would single out this one phrase in the AIM.
     
  6. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    14,480
    Location:
    Behind you!
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James331
    And yet I'd imagine even with my "with yous" my "illiterate" self probably would come off on the radio as much more experienced than some PPL radio nazi.

    In the big picture, if you think "with you" makes that much of a difference, let alone makes someone sound "illiterate" you have much to learn young grasshopper.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
    SoCal RV Flyer likes this.
  7. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    7,929
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jordan
    Why hasn’t the pilot been monitoring Unicom? That’s not my problem. If I’ve been making my position reports, I’m fine. I’m not going to answer any pilot that uses ATITAPA. The “with you” thing really isn’t a big deal. I don’t use it because it’s redundant. The controller obviously knows you’re “with him” if you are talking on his frequency
     
    SoCal RV Flyer likes this.
  8. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    14,480
    Location:
    Behind you!
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James331
    So you're going to degrade saftey to prove a point?


    Because the other guy was acting dumb, I'll show him, I'll act even dumber, do you like law darts, because this is how you turn yourself into a lawn dart.
     
    KA550 and mscard88 like this.
  9. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    3,633
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    <finger snap> That's it! We should just say, "departure, bugsmasher one two three is talking on your frequency."

    Then again, that makes "with you" sound pretty good in comparison. I've recently been subjected to "..and departure, bugsmasher one two three is climbing through three thousand for five thousand."
     
    jordane93 likes this.
  10. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    7,929
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jordan
    The IFR pilot who isn’t monitoring Unicom is causing a safety issue. If I’m making my required reporting points, I’m doing my job. My job isn’t to answer ATITPPA. I’ve already been doing it.
     
  11. ShuRugal

    ShuRugal Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ShuRugal
    Pilot only has one radio
    Second radio is inoperable
    Pilot has been monitoring other frequencies, and doesn't have a third radio

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
     
  12. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    6,016
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PaulS
    I was told that's the way to do it: " Departure, bugsmasher 123, level 3 thousand" or "Departure, bugsmasher 123, 2 thousand, climbing 3 thousand" , is that wrong now?
     
  13. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    14,086
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    No, he's referring to the habit of starting a transmission with the word "AND". It's pretty darned stupid (and ungrammatical as well).
     
    PaulS and denverpilot like this.
  14. DoubleD

    DoubleD Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    111
    Location:
    Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    David
    Pilot has a one channel brain and avoids having two radios chattering at once.
     
  15. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    6,016
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PaulS
    All these things are going to get stuck in my head and come out in the air, lol.
     
  16. danhagan

    danhagan Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,314
    Location:
    El Paso, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    danhagan
    +1 I'm "with you" as well :eek::confused::D

    Why else would be here?;)
     
  17. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    8,981
    Location:
    Lee's Summit, MO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Greg Bockelman
    Wow. Just . . . Wow.
     
    Palmpilot likes this.
  18. ShuRugal

    ShuRugal Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ShuRugal
    "aaand attention to any traffic in the pattern, bug smasher 12345 is with you on 123.00, please advise if the FBO restaurant is serving pork or fish today, I've just come in from far away, and I'm starving."

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
     
    PaulS likes this.
  19. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    14,480
    Location:
    Behind you!
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James331
    If he made that call he's at least monitoring it part time

    I'd personally announce my position, at least that way I know I did everything I could do to help with everyone's situational awareness.


    The logic is along the same lines as someone who pushes their right of way with a semi truck, even if you're right, there's a chance you're going to loose
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
    mscard88 likes this.
  20. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    7,659
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    VisitedStatesMap.gif <--------here in 'this part' of the US it's "I reckon I'm with y'all"
     
  21. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    847
    Location:
    Illinois
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kevin
    I'm far from an expert in the field of what makes one sound like a "loser" on the frequency. I'm guessing I have somewhere over 25,000 hours of flying, instructing and on frequency ATC. Pretty much none of the minor things listed on this thread bothers me as a pilot or as a controller.... especially "with you".
     
  22. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    5,373
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pilawt
    He: "Honey, I'm home!"
    She (a graduate of University of POA): "Look, moron, you're obviously here in this house so you don't need to tell me that. You're wasting my time and our acoustic bandwidth if you say anything more than who you're addressing and who you are. So let's practice: 'Honey ... I.' 'Honey ... I.' Got that, you loser?"

    :confused:
     
    flyingcheesehead and James331 like this.
  23. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    6,016
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PaulS
    I'm "with you" on that.

    I've been taught clear concise language on the radio, better to leave extra words out, especially on initial contact to a frequency where you have no idea how busy the controller is. I have no where near the experience you have, just over 200 hours, rusty pilot coming back at it in the past few months. I will say that "with you" was not the only phrase, there were a couple other things that we discussed then, and the gist of the conversation was not that someone who uses those phrases is a loser, the point was that if you behave professionally and project that you know what you are doing you will end up with a controller who is more comfortable with you and more trusting that you will not screw up, if you sound amateur you will be handled like one.

    It's funny, at least I think so, that I commented to that instructor when I was told that, WTF do I care if a controller thinks I'm a loser, at which point the lesson was driven home.

    It's my belief that if we are nervous about saying the wrong thing on the radio, we, as pilots need to study more and get it down. Again, I haven't dealt with the system as much as you, but my experience is that most controllers are great, like anyone else, sometimes you hear one having a bad day, but even then are still pretty good. There was one, a long time ago, who would lose it sometimes at a busy field I used to fly in, even then, a supervisor would just step in .
     
  24. Rory

    Rory Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages:
    124
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Rory
    You’d lose the bet.

    And this is not the only jargon phrase that grates on me. I also refuse to say “airspeed alive”, which sounds like a line from a 1950s grade B movie :)

    We all have our pet peeves, and pilot jargon is one of mine. As a student pilot, I would already love to see a moratorium on “glass cockpit”, “steam gauges” and a bunch of other expressions that might have been original when coined but have quickly become, for me at least, beyond tiresome.
     
  25. iamtheari

    iamtheari Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    886
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ari
    We’s fixin’ to turn base, y’all.
     
  26. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    847
    Location:
    Illinois
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kevin
    I mean you absolutely no disrespect but how do you already have established pet peeves as a student pilot still? As a student pilot I was still so enthralled by becoming a pilot and all things aviation that I didn't have a single pet peeve (thought of terms being tiresome) of any of the people that were already aviating.

    Do you say anything verbally to allow your instructor to know that the ASI is indeed working properly and you referenced it on departure roll? "airspeed active", "airspeed working", etc
     
  27. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    3,633
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    It would seem to me that as a student, perhaps you're focusing on the wrong part of flying.

    I would like to see anything in reference to a red handle here on POA become a banable offense but I doubt that would happen.
     
  28. Rory

    Rory Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages:
    124
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Rory
    It’s news to me that one is supposed to be so enthralled with flying that one is supposed to leave one’s views on plain language behind, although that is clearly what happens to people who jump on the jargon.

    I think you’ll find that people outside the U.S. are able to express the concept behind “airspeed alive” without sounding like a B-Movie starring Tom Cruise.

    “Do you say anything verbally to allow your instructor...”.

    Off hand, I can’t think of any way to say something without being verbal, unless I’m doing something like playing the piano, which I don’t typically do in an aircraft cockpit.

    “the people that were already aviating”

    Are these the same people who in plain English go flying?

    Maybe I’m not sufficiently indoctrinated yet, but I can’t quite see myself saying to a friend “Let’s go aviating this weekend”. Unless I want to see him go into a paroxysm of laughter while spitting out his coffee.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  29. 35 AoA

    35 AoA Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,192
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    35 AoA
    I don't say "with you", but I do normally say "(callsign) checking in FLXXX" or something during center or approach handoffs. Probably just as irritating to some. "Aaaaand" is both something that irritates me, as well as something I sometimes say....I then hate myself for several seconds. Seriously though, I don't think any of this really matters as long as you aren't the person who takes 12 sentences and 30 seconds of frequency time to say 5 words worth of information. Then again, I have a backseater now, who does all the "talking" for me......so I'm just the annoying peanut gallery these days :)
     
  30. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    847
    Location:
    Illinois
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kevin
    At least you are consistent. Please do let us know when you become a pilot as I'd like to be able to congratulate you on your achievement.

    Enjoy your endeavor (*training to become a pilot).
     
    CJ Rader and mscard88 like this.
  31. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    14,480
    Location:
    Behind you!
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James331

    What do you even need a CFI for, you already know it all, thank you for your excellence
     
  32. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    16,957
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    Rory you must be a peach of a student is all I have to say. Do you have a CFI that's willing to even fly with you?
     
  33. Rory

    Rory Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages:
    124
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Rory
    I need a CFI to learn how to fly a plane. I don’t need a CFI to teach me how to speak in plain English. I especially don’t need to learn how to speak in plain English from people steeped in jargon.

    Interesting that that proposition has apparently hit a nerve.
     
  34. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    3,633
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    He refuses to say "airspeed alive" but uses words like paroxysm. ;)
     
  35. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    15,693
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Throttle
    How are ya doin’ Steve?
     
  36. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    3,633
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    What you you say to indicate that the airspeed indicator is working? How would you feel if you were sitting in the right seat and not able to see the airspeed so that you can make sure your student is able to tell when to rotate (sorry, more jargon) the aircraft?

    What would you call "steam gauges"?

    Glass cockpit?
     
  37. Rory

    Rory Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages:
    124
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Rory
    There’s this concept called irony.

    That aside, the word “paroxysm” in the phrase “he fell into a paroxysm of laughter” has become so common that it should be understood by anybody at roughly junior high school reading level.
     
  38. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    14,480
    Location:
    Behind you!
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James331
    Hit a nerve? Dude you live or die it means nothing to me, it's just comical reading your "expertise" on matters you have very little experience in. Good luck youre going to need it
     
    CJ Rader, SoCal RV Flyer and Ryanb like this.
  39. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    6,016
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PaulS
    Airspeed alive, I say that, at least in my head, every time. Pretty important.
     
    Kritchlow and CJ Rader like this.
  40. Ryanb

    Ryanb En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    4,985
    Location:
    SE Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    You'd be annoying to fly with. I can tell.
     
    KA550, Kritchlow, CJ Rader and 2 others like this.