The incentives young aviators need....or not?

The key is to encourage more young women to become involved. The young men will follow :D
 
Half the world doesn't care about GA and the other half is scared of it.

Not to mention it's expensive as all get out.

You have to have the 'it' factor, the love and need of it. Very few people I've met outside our little group here have it.
 
Total opposite of what it was like when I was learning. Top Gun had just came out and young men everywhere wanted to fly. There wasn't a pilot shortage back then.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
txflyer said:
Half the world doesn't care about GA and the other half is scared of it.

Not to mention it's expensive as all get out.

You have to have the 'it' factor, the love and need of it. Very few people I've met outside our little group here have it.
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This essentially sums it up.
 
Personally, I think the incredibly hostile reception of the pilot community (flying or renting aircraft valued at 5 and 6 figures) to drones (almost universally < $1000) while simultaneously complaining about the high cost of aviation as a barrier to entry is extremely hypocritical.

Without the benefit of experiencing the golden years, I believe there's going to be a lot of future in general aviation as drones continue to evolve, the experimental community thrives, and certification reform chugs along (slowly). If we were to take an educational approach to drones, welcome the pilots into the community, and teach them how they can be a part of a the system instead of an adversary to it, I think that would make a big difference in putting younger kids on a path to bigger and better aviation pursuits. Instead, we are epically squandering this opportunity.

bikert said:
The key is to encourage more young women to become involved. The young men will follow :D
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Good news about that! We at least don't have to look very hard to see why the female half of my generation isn't in a big hurry to invest their time much less spend their lives in an aviation career:

DavidWhite said:
and more hot chicks. aviation definitely needs way more hot chicks.
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mscard88 said:
Especially as Flight Attendants!
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Phoenix said:
1980s TV was full of shows that had lots of cool cars and aircraft. Now it is just dumb white men being saved by women and minorities. Whatever, let GA die, it doesn't deserve to live.
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Getonit said:
It was a Mooney.....(as a new owner of one I think it should get me lots of chicks).....
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Challenged said:
I'd say a plus would be having meaningless sex with flight attendants, but I don't think I can recall seeing an attractive flight attendant in the past 15 years or so.
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Gucci Pilot said:
Went on a few dates with a flight attendant and said she gets hit on by the pilots constantly. And not pilots her age, the older 40-50 year olds as well.
...
I went on a few dates with a low seniority flight attendant and I can tell you she worked every holiday, a pretty ****ty schedule, and definitely didn't make a lot. She agreed the FOs were pretty much in the same boat as her.
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Hey David, I'm curious about your income. Are you making enough to live on your own with an apartment, utility bills, insurance, etc., or are your folks still chipping in?

I know you've been up there for a few years now and are transitioning to a more demanding aircraft and flight regime. Did your income go up substantially, or just a few bucks?

You can generalize as you wish, I don't need hard numbers.
 
I don't know, I think its still the cost of entry and understanding how to get into the game. My experience is very different from Davids with perhaps a one exception. First I always looked to the sky according to my folks I did so even before I can recall. I was a kid obsessed with airplanes.

When I was in Jr. High School back around the Bicentennial I remember we had these ancient computers that would print info about careers, I'd always print the info about being a pilot but it was always stuff like salary etc. I was of the belief right or wrong that the only way to become a professional pilot was through incredibly competitive programs in the Military but I never understood how one went about becoming a pilot.

I didn't even know how to go about learning to fly. I think to Davids point giving kids a better understanding of how one might learn to fly and become a professional pilot that is the first step. the second is actually making it affordable.
 
JOhnH said:
Embry Riddle new graduates earn an average of $63k and have about $47k debt.
:popcorn:
Not great, but not as bad as portrayed.

I still prefer the method I used. Seven years (work & school) to get a 4 year degree at a great school (Not Embry Riddle) and graduated with zero debt.
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Paying off school debt is great fun. Just imagine having all that debt then falling ill, getting into an auto accident or other and not being able to meet FAA medical standards.

Lots and lots of risk there.
 
3393RP said:
Hey David, I'm curious about your income. Are you making enough to live on your own with an apartment, utility bills, insurance, etc., or are your folks still chipping in?

I know you've been up there for a few years now and are transitioning to a more demanding aircraft and flight regime. Did your income go up substantially, or just a few bucks?

You can generalize as you wish, I don't need hard numbers.
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Yes, I make enough to live on my own and support a girlfriend in college (not pay for college, just support) I did get a small bump in pay when I moved to the caravan, but nothing substantial. I will make more money flying a 206 on floats next year than I made flying the caravan this year. If you would like anything more specific you can PM me for my phone #.
 
I am also more than happy to give career advice to anyone who would like to fly in AK. I know of a couple of spots open at good companies.
 
clarkmueller said:
Good news about that! We at least don't have to look very hard to see why the female half of my generation isn't in a big hurry to invest their time much less spend their lives in an aviation career:
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My current girlfriend is the only female in her office, my last one was a nurse that dealt with old men daily. Trust me, it isn't just pilots. It's guys in general.
 
bnt83 said:
Paying off school debt is great fun. Just imagine having all that debt then falling ill, getting into an auto accident or other and not being able to meet FAA medical standards.

Lots and lots of risk there.
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How is this unique to aviation? Falling ill enough to blow a medical is probably enough to lay you up as a engineer, CPA, etc.

Student debt isn't new ether, unless you apprentice yourself into a trade, or are unskilled labor.


clarkmueller said:
Personally, I think the incredibly hostile reception of the pilot community (flying or renting aircraft valued at 5 and 6 figures) to drones (almost universally < $1000) while simultaneously complaining about the high cost of aviation as a barrier to entry is extremely hypocritical.

Without the benefit of experiencing the golden years, I believe there's going to be a lot of future in general aviation as drones continue to evolve, the experimental community thrives, and certification reform chugs along (slowly). If we were to take an educational approach to drones, welcome the pilots into the community, and teach them how they can be a part of a the system instead of an adversary to it, I think that would make a big difference in putting younger kids on a path to bigger and better aviation pursuits. Instead, we are epically squandering this opportunity.



Good news about that! We at least don't have to look very hard to see why the female half of my generation isn't in a big hurry to invest their time much less spend their lives in an aviation career:
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No.

First off drones are not even on my radar, they aren't a factor no matter how much smoke FAA, FOX, MSNBC, congress critters or anyone else blows up your backside.

I fly for a living and sorry I'm just not scared of drones, I'm WAAAY more likely to nail a deer on landing or hit a flock of birds, what's done about this nada, we are allowed to shoot the deer at the field, but have to dress them and donate them to a food bank, way to much work for zero reward, result... Lots of deer and what not on the field.

Also most of the prosumer and pro drones cost well north of 1k.

Again, drones are not a factor.


As for women, most of them just aren't wired to want to get into aviation or many other activities like this, go to any airport, moto cross track, drop zone, etc TONS more men than women. Just differences between the sexes.
 
My girlfriend who I've been dating for 1.5 years and living with for the better part of a year has been flying with me twice I think. She doesn't really care that I'm a pilot, and doesn't care to fly, but it's something cool to tell her friends.
 
Thanks for your reply...good luck and I hope you continue to do well.
 
Seanaldinho said:
Aviation needs more zoom climbs. That'll attract kids.
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Had a Captain flying a Brasilia w/ passengers take off, nose over to build up speed, and at end of runway pulls up for a zoomer. By the time he landed in ATL (it was a short 30 min flight) the tower had called our ops, Delta called ATL, and the flight was met by the Chief Pilot. Fired on the spot. Dude was a real dumbass and no business flying paying passengers, so he got what he deserved. :nonod:
 
bnt83 said:
Paying off school debt is great fun. Just imagine having all that debt then falling ill, getting into an auto accident or other and not being able to meet FAA medical standards.

Lots and lots of risk there.
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Which can all be mitigated by:
1. Short and long term disability insurance
2. Good medical insurance that could help with recovery and therapy so that getting your medical back might not be impossible.
3. Having a backup plan such as a degree in something useful.
4. With your ATP or even CPL knowledge, I believe you could fairly easily become a dispatcher with minimal additional study. That at least would be a job and still in aviation if that is important.
5. Get a deferment on your student loan. I believe they still give those for certain circumstance.

There are always options.
 
James331 said:
I'm WAAAY more likely to nail a deer on landing or hit a flock of birds, what's done about this nada, we are allowed to shoot the deer at the field, but have to dress them and donate them to a food bank, way to much work for zero reward, result... Lots of deer and what not on the field.
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Not sure what your experience is shooting and dressing deer, but it really shouldn't be that much work. You could easily get under 20- 30 minutes from shooting to driving out the airport gate with some much needed protein for the food bank.

If you are even the slightest worried about deer on the field, then the effort is well worth the reward.
 
It's a lot of work for nothing as far as most who are able to shoot and dress and transport a deer.

If the local goberment said if its on the airport it's free game, finders keepers, just get it off the airport, you can keep it or donate it, well we wouldn't have a single deer on airport grounds.
 
Now this is interesting... I was a longtime fan of Miss Leeward on Instagram until she unfollowed me one day. Sounds petty, I know, but it's something I have yet to forget since, as a young female pilot myself, I expected to have a sort of camaraderie there. And now here she is, promoting herself as a friend to other social networkers.

If anything, social networking is killing aviation. It's a competition for who's the prettiest and most popular female pilot and the winner gets friends with nice planes they can fly for free. I wish I could speak for everyone but I'm afraid I've been driven into a pigeon hole. You're either a female pilot or a young aviator, but never both.

I was fortunate enough to have parents willing to pay for most of my initial license since I was in high school at the time. Since being kicked off that gravy train, it has been incredibly difficult finding a way to afford the time and money for continued training. The best way to get young people to fly is probably to just give them a work ethic!
 
rachelk.tailwinds said:
If anything, social networking is killing aviation. It's a competition for who's the prettiest and most popular female pilot and the winner gets friends with nice planes they can fly for free. I wish I could speak for everyone but I'm afraid I've been driven into a pigeon hole. You're either a female pilot or a young aviator, but never both.
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I've noticed a lot of this through "friends of friends" on Facebook. There seems to be quite the group of attention-whore female pilots whose entire narrative is about looking pretty and making a big deal of the fact that they are female and therefore deserve super special treatment. Then there's plenty of idiotic middle-aged men fawning over them and trying to be the next to offer them rides in fancy airplanes.

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of attention-whore male pilots too, but they tend to get rightly ignored.

Contrasted against that are several young ladies in my flying club who are all about the flying; dedicated, competent, and in it for the sake of the aviation. Those are the people that I admire, based on their achievements rather than their gender/appearance.
 
Always thought the opposite, met fellow pilots around the corner from me who I never even knew about, found out about fly ins I probably wound have known about until after the fact.

Facebook and especially meetup have been great for GA in my opinion.

Of course as dudes we don't really think about which one of us is the prettiest, well minus the dudes in SoCal and NYC :wink2:
 
Our flying club has 4 152's, theyre getting 400+hrs per year on them and they rent for $65/hr. Dues are $65/month and a $300 refundable deposit plus $200 non refundable initiation fee.

When I was training it was $75 or $80/hr and I still did the whole thing for around $5k.

My point is that its cheap enough if you fly an old spam can in a club or partnership.
 
Katamarino said:
There seems to be quite the group of attention-whore female pilots whose entire narrative is about looking pretty and making a big deal of the fact that they are female and therefore deserve super special treatment.
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You wouldn't believe how many scholarships are out there strictly for females. There is a large mass of people out there who are under the impression that females are at a disadvantage. In reality, they are at the advantage for having access to these scholarships and (I believe) are given preferred positions to their Y-chromosomes counterparts of equal qualification.

Katamarino said:
Contrasted against that are several young ladies in my flying club who are all about the flying; dedicated, competent, and in it for the sake of the aviation. Those are the people that I admire, based on their achievements rather than their gender/appearance.
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I, too, admire these people, and I bet you they aren't blasting their accomplishments all over the internet.
 
Katamarino said:
I've noticed a lot of this through "friends of friends" on Facebook. There seems to be quite the group of attention-whore female pilots whose entire narrative is about looking pretty and making a big deal of the fact that they are female and therefore deserve super special treatment. Then there's plenty of idiotic middle-aged men fawning over them and trying to be the next to offer them rides in fancy airplanes.
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There has always been this, but I'm sure social media has made it 100 times more noticeable.
 
Females are treated differently than males in society. Whenever a female programmer, pilot, mechanic, physicist, etc. enters the room, I can count off the handful of seconds before a man makes a comment about her appearance or her gender. It doesn't matter what the reason is or how right or wrong it is -- it's just a fact that women are generally pieces of meat first and whatever else they do second.

I think the aforementioned social media whores are just exploiting that fact, and it's not them who are the vapid idiots but the drooling men who hurl gifts and money at the bouncing perky titties and smiling teeth they don't stand a chance of ever fondling.

It's not like it's a level playing field and if I could get away with such antics, I surely would use my looks to my advantage.
 
ollopa said:
Females are treated differently than males in society. Whenever a female programmer, pilot, mechanic, physicist, etc. enters the room, I can count off the handful of seconds before a man makes a comment about her appearance or her gender. It doesn't matter what the reason is or how right or wrong it is -- it's just a fact that women are generally pieces of meat first and whatever else they do second.
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I work in a engineering environment (an oil and gas major). We have plenty of both male and female colleagues; more males, certainly, but it's not unusual for women to make up a third or more of the people in our meetings. Admittedly, it's a world leading company, so we have a pretty high calibre of people which may make discrimination less likely.

In my eight years here I have never once seen or heard anyone making that kind of a comment in that kind of situation, and honestly haven't seen a single case of people disparaging someone because of their sex. I'm not just ignoring it, I truly have not seen it. The same goes for female pilots at my flying club. Maybe you're just surrounded by douchebags? :dunno:
 
Whatever the case may be about how women are treated in society, they have an obvious leg-up in aviation. The girl who wrote the article mentioned in the OP might not even be aware of it, but she is indeed taking advantage of her genetics. So in her unique situation, all it takes to make her want to stay in aviation is, "fast planes, new friends and good food." For more introverted, less fortunate people, it takes a little bit more than the communal organization of like-minded peers to keep them going.
 
Females have made huge gains in our society, even in the more highly paid professions. My own is now largely female (at one point my Chair, Dean, Provost and President were all female). When I was young medicine was an all boys club, now its half female and climbing. Veterinary medicine is mostly female, girls are doing great in my end of things.

The only places females are not doing that well are Engineering and Physics. Females still only make up a single digit percentage in the pilot school.
 
Insert obligatory Global Girl (nee Gulfstream Girl) comment here.
 
steingar said:
Females have made huge gains in our society, even in the more highly paid professions. My own is now largely female (at one point my Chair, Dean, Provost and President were all female). When I was young medicine was an all boys club, now its half female and climbing. Veterinary medicine is mostly female, girls are doing great in my end of things.

The only places females are not doing that well are Engineering and Physics. Females still only make up a single digit percentage in the pilot school.
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Which is just because females CHOOSE to not go down those paths. Heck if you're a minority female there are tons of doors which will open for you compared to a white male. It's kinda gone 180, now days it's just a choice.
 
James331 said:
Which is just because females CHOOSE to not go down those paths. Heck if you're a minority female there are tons of doors which will open for you compared to a white male. It's kinda gone 180, now days it's just a choice.
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Exactly! I agree with James.
 
One thing I'll say is that a female pilot will be noticed more than a male pilot. Anything you do, good, bad, or otherwise, will be remembered. I know some of my male counterparts are disappointed when people (passengers, FBO personnel, training center employees, etc.) remember me but don't remember them. It's sometimes a little awkward for me, because I'm someone who would ordinarily like to blend into the background. Not only that, people will say they remember me but I have no clue who they are...
 
steingar said:
Welcome to my world. Happens a lot when you teach thousands of students a year.
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I can see that, but I was comparing two people with the same job description, one being male and the other being female.
 
I love it when an airline crew is all female, pilots and flight attendants. You should hear the passenger comments boarding and when they realize BOTH pilots are female!

Western Mich has a program with Delta for minorities and women that I believe Delta pays for to get their degree and certificates, fly at a Regional to gain experience, and then move to Delta mainline. Flew with one woman once who was almost embarrassed to tell me she went through the program, My comment was, good for you, I'd do it too if it had been available to men.

Most of the women at the Regional I flew was competent pilots and fun to fly with. Of course there were a few that were in lust with their selves but they were the minority. We had a few female flight attendants that took a leave of absence to get their certificates and are now flying with the airline. Always encouraged them.
 
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rachelk.tailwinds said:
<SNIP> The best way to get young people to fly is probably to just give them a work ethic!
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Umm, no, the best way to get young people to fly is to remove their common sense.

Can we talk? Private aviation, for the most part, is impractical. It is hideously expensive. The airplanes that most of us can have a hope to fly are derivatives of sixty year old designs, and look primitive compared to a modern car. Until you get to the Skylane class or better, you can't carry an entire family for much of a cross country. Aviation is commonplace today and has no real cachet, it has nothing new to offer.

There are exactly two reasons to learn to fly, either because you love it, or because you hope to do it for a living. Barring either of those, why would someone go to the trouble and expense?

There's no reason to diss an entire group of people just because they don't love your hobby.
 
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