Tesla Pickup Unveil

SoonerAviator said:
Man, I wish I had snapped a picture, but I saw a CyberTruck yesterday. . . Parked at a gas pump. Now, to be clear, it had just started hailing in Tulsa and I had pulled in just as it started and was getting some diesel. Within 30 seconds every open space was packed with cars looking to avoid hail damage, one of them being a CyberTruck. Struck me as funny seeing the ugly EV parked in front of a fuel pump.
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But I thought that the Cybertruck was supposed to be dent-proof.

Oh, wait
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Saw one for the first time in person today, parked at the SNC FBO. All I could think is, "Boy, is that UGLY!" Peeked inside, saw a funky rectangular steering wheel (is that supposed to be "aircraft style"?) and a giant touchscreen displaying the message, "Recording in progress". I turned around and got back in my Jeep, perfectly content with my vehicle purchase decision. :)
 
Dana said:
Peeked inside, saw a funky rectangular steering wheel (is that supposed to be "aircraft style"?)…..
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The yoke made zero sense in prior Teslas, where going “hand-over-hand”, like you do when maneuvering a wheel in low speed maneuvers, is clumsy at best. It was always my opinion that a yoke only makes sense in a car with variable ratio steering that negates the need for hand-over-hand maneuvering. Which the CyberTruck has. So a yoke seems perfectly suited, for the same reasons they’re used in many planes.

Stipulated that the CyberTruck falls very short compared to what was promised. But the drive-by-wire variable ratio steering via yoke has, for the most part, been universally praised.
 
one of my neighbors bought one. Then covered it in a wrap. It actually makes it look less stupid, but considering the thing is really just “art” on wheels, covering it up is kind of an interesting choice. I’ve never agreed with any of other things he’s spent wads of money on either…


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FastEddieB said:
It’s my well reasoned opinion that it’s quite stupid to paint or wrap a civilian car or plane in a camo design.
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Unless you’re an automaker street testing a prototype.
 
I haven't seen an actual military vehicle on the highway in anything but a solid color since the 1980's era Chevy Blazers and pickups that some outfits I think had in woodland. So to me, camo on a vehicle says civilian.
 
All other things aside, if I were designing the Cybertruck I wouldn’t have gone with the yoke style wheel. If it’s all drive by wire, why bother? A side joystick for acceleration, coasting, braking, and turning would make perfect sense. No wheel, no pedals. Completely intuitive. Easy enough to make provision for mounting the stick on either side, so if you were planning to export to a backwards country it’s much easier. I really think they missed an opportunity there.
 
DaleB said:
All other things aside, if I were designing the Cybertruck I wouldn’t have gone with the yoke style wheel. If it’s all drive by wire, why bother? A side joystick for acceleration, coasting, braking, and turning would make perfect sense. No wheel, no pedals. Completely intuitive. Easy enough to make provision for mounting the stick on either side, so if you were planning to export to a backwards country it’s much easier. I really think they missed an opportunity there.
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Yeah, I don't think id want a bunch of yuppies in an 8K lbs "truck" trying to remember to pull a joystick "back" in order to brake is what I want driving next to me. Same goes for using a soft touch in a rapid-steering situation (hydroplaning or obstacle avoidance). Probably best to keep it simple.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Yeah, I don't think id want a bunch of yuppies in an 8K lbs "truck" trying to remember to pull a joystick "back" in order to brake is what I want driving next to me. Same goes for using a soft touch in a rapid-steering situation (hydroplaning or obstacle avoidance). Probably best to keep it simple.
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Don’t think yuppies would fare any worse or better than anyone else. We have over a century of history of a single model on how to control a car. The steering wheel and pedals is so ingrained in our culture, little kids have toys based on it. Changing that up unnecessarily seems like a recipe for disaster for any demographic really.
 
FastEddieB said:
a car with variable ratio steering that negates the need for hand-over-hand maneuvering. Which the CyberTruck has.
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+/- 170° of rotation from neutral. It's received very good reviews, from those who've driven it, for it's maneuverability. And it's triple-redundant.

I agree with you on the yoke in the cars with conventional steering. Now, it's just an option on the S and X. Round steering wheels are standard.
 
AKiss20 said:
Don’t think yuppies would fare any worse or better than anyone else. We have over a century of history of a single model on how to control a car. The steering wheel and pedals is so ingrained in our culture, little kids have toys based on it. Changing that up unnecessarily seems like a recipe for disaster for any demographic really.
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Yuppies are the ones buying the CyberTruck, I'm not speaking of using a sidestick for cars in general. I do agree that it would be a steep learning curve for anyone. Single control stick for accelerate/brake/turn just sounds like a recipe for disaster when evasive maneuvers are needed.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I do agree that it would be a steep learning curve for anyone.
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Allow me to be pedantic for a moment.

I recent learned that most folks use “steep learning curve” improperly. A “steep” curve would imply something that one can be learned quickly.

From Wikipedia:

The common expression "a steep learning curve" is a misnomer suggesting that an activity is difficult to learn and that expending much effort does not increase proficiency by much, although a learning curve with a steep start actually represents rapid progress.
 
FastEddieB said:
Allow me to be pedantic for a moment.

I recent learned that most folks use “steep learning curve” improperly. A “steep” curve would imply something that one can be learned quickly.

From Wikipedia:

The common expression "a steep learning curve" is a misnomer suggesting that an activity is difficult to learn and that expending much effort does not increase proficiency by much, although a learning curve with a steep start actually represents rapid progress.
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So one should say, "High skill-floor" instead?
 
FastEddieB said:
Allow me to be pedantic for a moment.

I recent learned that most folks use “steep learning curve” improperly. A “steep” curve would imply something that one can be learned quickly.

From Wikipedia:

The common expression "a steep learning curve" is a misnomer suggesting that an activity is difficult to learn and that expending much effort does not increase proficiency by much, although a learning curve with a steep start actually represents rapid progress.
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Flip the X-Y axes (learning on X and effort on Y) and keep the curve shape the same and it makes sense. :)
 
FastEddieB said:
Allow me to be pedantic for a moment.

I recent learned that most folks use “steep learning curve” improperly. A “steep” curve would imply something that one can be learned quickly.

From Wikipedia:

The common expression "a steep learning curve" is a misnomer suggesting that an activity is difficult to learn and that expending much effort does not increase proficiency by much, although a learning curve with a steep start actually represents rapid progress.
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To me "steep learning curve" means you gotta learn it fast or bad things are coming your way.
 
Salty said:
To me "steep learning curve" means you gotta learn it fast or bad things are coming your way.
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I've always heard it used in a manner that meant it was particularly complex/difficult to learn (like climbing a steep hill) in order to be functional or proficient.
 
Salty said:
I'm getting rid of my Tesla first chance I get. I'm totally and utterly infuriated that I have to choose between FSD, which I paid $12,000 for and normal cruise control. I mostly just use cruise control. FSD was a cool toy I would occasionally use. Especially in construction, it's a frustrating piece of garbage - and everything within 15 miles of me right now is under construction. Two releases ago they introduced "single push" which means I have to choose before my drive if I want to use adaptive cruise, or FSD. Can't change your mind without putting the car in park. ABSOLUTE BS. I really thought they would fix it after a release or two, but nope. I really can't believe I'm the only one bothered by this theft of value by an intentional software change.

I have to choose between not having a feature I use 90% of the time or not using a feature I paid $12,000 for.

Anybody want a Tesla?
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Isn't there an option in the menus that you can turn off? That's what I did, and I still have single pull for adaptive cruise and double pull for autopilot.
StraightnLevel said:
How do I buy the vehicle without paying for all of the hardware that has been built into it for that feature?
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You don't, because every vehicle includes Autopilot (not FSD) in the purchase price, and it uses the exact same hardware. Only the software is different.
Zeldman said:
If I ever get to the point where I can't drive myself, I'll turn in my license.

I enjoy, I mean I really enjoy driving.
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I do too... And even more so now that I have a Tesla. Now, I can drive because I *want* to, not because I *have* to. Commuting in traffic on the interstate? Autopilot all day long (and I arrive a whole lot more happy and refreshed than I used to). Tearing up the curves on a country road? I'm absolutely driving myself. Something in between? Depends on my mood.
OneCharlieTango said:
ISTM that a fully autonomous car would be able to take the kids to school without me. It also seems that it would mean there’s no such thing as DUI.

Are we anywhere near that level of autonomy?
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90% done, 90% to go, as they say. Shuttling kids and taking drunk people home are excellent use cases for FSD once it's fully autonomous. Another is for older people to not lose their freedom of movement and be able to get around even when they can no longer safely drive themselves. It will happen for me, but I hope it even happens for my parents. Dad is 82 and mom is 77; they already have a Tesla.
AKiss20 said:
Don’t think yuppies would fare any worse or better than anyone else. We have over a century of history of a single model on how to control a car. The steering wheel and pedals is so ingrained in our culture, little kids have toys based on it. Changing that up unnecessarily seems like a recipe for disaster for any demographic really.
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Yes. Even the single-pedal driving that can be done in many EVs, a very minor change to the control paradigm, has led to some accidents - People are conditioned to slam on the brakes when they get in trouble, but then they train themselves to only use the one pedal the vast majority of the time. They get in trouble, and they slam on the accelerator instead of the brake.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Isn't there an option in the menus that you can turn off? That's what I did, and I still have single pull for adaptive cruise and double pull for autopilot.
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Nope. That’s for auto steer. Not for full self drive. The double pull option grays out in fsd.

I resolved my problem today by trading for a very nice lightly used Mach-e. It’s actually insane how much nicer the ford is.
 
Salty said:
Nope. That’s for auto steer. Not for full self drive. The double pull option grays out in fsd.

I resolved my problem today by trading for a very nice lightly used Mach-e. It’s actually insane how much nicer the ford is.
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My first electrified vehicle was a Ford. They're very well-engineered, and it'd be my second choice behind a Tesla. What do you like better about it?
asicer said:
In an EV? It'll get the job done, I guess. But wrong tool for the overall mission, I say.
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Have you driven an EV? Well, a Tesla anyway? It's absolutely the right tool. Don't get me wrong, it's a certain brand of fun to do a roller-coaster road in an ICE with a manual transmission, but it is *also* super fun (more so, IMO) to add the Tesla acceleration to the equation.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
My first electrified vehicle was a Ford. They're very well-engineered, and it'd be my second choice behind a Tesla. What do you like better about it?
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Honestly, nearly every single thing about the car is better.

* Fit and finish - The paint job on my Tesla was awful and only got worse over the two years I owned it. I've never owned a new car with such a crappy paint job, let alone a car with the price tag of the Tesla.
* Ride and comfort - The Mach-E is smoother and road noise is remarkably quiet compared to the Model 3. The interior is much nicer and seats are more comfortable.
* Handling - I could give the Tesla a slight edge here. Even in the worst conditions, I never once had a wheel lose traction in the Model 3. On my first drive of the Mustang, I broke the rear wheels free. I only make this a slight edge because, it's a freaking mustang, a little controllable oversteer is almost a requirement of the breed. I'd have been disappointed if I couldnt get that to happen.
* Acceleration - Total draw. Now, I did luck into a totally maxxed out GT performance edition, at an insanely good price, otherwise the 3 would have won this one.
*Auto pilot / self drive - The Tesla does better on unimproved roads and for full navigation in FSD mode (when not in a construction area), however, the Ford "Bluecruise" is a far better match for me. It does a decent job of true hands-off when on limit access roads, and best of all, you can make manual adjustments any time without turning it off and it rolls with the punches and just takes back over when you're done with whatever you were doing. With the Tesla, it's all or nothing. If you're in FSD and it does something stupid (a frequent event), you have to fight it to correct, then it gives up and you swerve like a drunken sailor when it finally lets go of the controls. Then, of course, you have to turn FSD back on again manually and wait until the next time it tries to kill you. Don't get me wrong, the blue cruise tries to kill you now and again also, but you can correct it gently and without appearing like you're drunk out of your mind to the drivers around you. In general, the Ford does a better job of keeping you engaged, but lightening the load.
* Other tech - The Mach-E has its own navigation system and media and such, comparable with Tesla, but also supports android and car play. So you aren't locked into Elonworld. It has phone as a key like Tesla, in addition, unlike Tesla, it has a real key if you prefer that.
* Range - My Mach-E has about 25 miles less range than my long range model 3 had. It has a huge battery, but it's also lugging around a lot more weight. That means charging is slower than it was on my model 3. The non-performance Mach-E's fare better on range.

The bottom line is that there are a lot of flaws in the Tesla. I was able to overlook them when they lowered the price right after I purchased, and screwed my value. I was able to overlook them as the paint started looking worse and worse. When they took away my ability to use a feature I paid $12,000 for (they had already devalued that by lowering the price to $8,000 months after I bought it) I couldn't ignore any of the flaws anymore and the whole thing just ****ed me off every time I got in it.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
Have you driven an EV? Well, a Tesla anyway? It's absolutely the right tool.
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Yes, a dual motor, week in and week out. Give me a mountain road and I'll take the European RWD MT ICE coupe with an engine note like that every day of the week and twice on Sunday. That's what that kind car was designed for. If you think otherwise then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
The Ford Mach-E and F150 Lightning are two of the best Tesla alternatives. They should particularly appeal to EV buyers who want a more conventional design. Ford's NACS adapter is now available which gives these cars access to the Supercharger network, in addition to CCS charging.
 
I also looked at resale and the Tesla used prices are tanking like mad. The two dealerships I talked to had 6 of them to get rid of, and they weren’t excited about buying mine. I’m not convinced Tesla is going to survive the cybertruck either. Eventually, a pedestrian is going to get killed by one in a gruesome way and sentiment will shift quickly. I’m relieved to get out without losing more than I did, and I did take a shellacking.

EVs in general are tanking, but it works for my use case right now so I figured moving to a used one from Ford would help reduce the pain. I got a crazy good deal on a lightly used 2023 for less than 70% of the original sticker price. There isn’t a flaw on it, the previous owner must have really babied it. There’s no way I would have bought another new EV right now. I had already picked out a gas replacement, but noticed a LOT of EVs on the Ford lot, so I figured I’d see how much they were discounting to ditch them. Just lucky that the one I bought had just come in and nobody else had seen it yet. More than $20k more for a new equivalent to my used one that’s less than a year old.
 
Salty said:
I also looked at resale and the Tesla used prices are tanking like mad. The two dealerships I talked to had 6 of them to get rid of, and they weren’t excited about buying mine. I’m not convinced Tesla is going to survive the cybertruck either. Eventually, a pedestrian is going to get killed by one in a gruesome way and sentiment will shift quickly. I’m relieved to get out without losing more than I did, and I did take a shellacking.

EVs in general are tanking, but it works for my use case right now so I figured moving to a used one from Ford would help reduce the pain. I got a crazy good deal on a lightly used 2023 for less than 70% of the original sticker price. There isn’t a flaw on it, the previous owner must have really babied it. There’s no way I would have bought another new EV right now. I had already picked out a gas replacement, but noticed a LOT of EVs on the Ford lot, so I figured I’d see how much they were discounting to ditch them. Just lucky that the one I bought had just come in and nobody else had seen it yet. More than $20k more for a new equivalent to my used one that’s less than a year old.
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Yep. A lot of people on the FB Model X page are furious about the depreciation. Combined with all the Model X issues, Tesla is going to lose some die hard fans. Got my X for a steal so I’m not complaining. I’d never buy one new though.

Aggressive Tesla Price Cuts Pummel the Used EV Market - iSeeCars.com

The average used car price is down 3.6 percent, but used EV prices have fallen 31.8 percent since last year. Used Tesla prices have fallen 28.9 percent,...
www.iseecars.com www.iseecars.com
 
Velocity173 said:
Yep. A lot of people on the FB Model X page are furious about the depreciation. Combined with all the Model X issues, Tesla is going to lose some die hard fans. Got my X for a steal so I’m not complaining. I’d never buy one new though.
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Used Tesla prices were artificially inflated during the Pandemic. For a while you could buy one, drive it for a year, then sell it for a profit. That was never sustainable.

I would buy another new 3 or Y without hesitation. I keep my cars for 12-15 years so I don't much care about resale price.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Used Tesla prices were artificially inflated during the Pandemic. For a while you could buy one, drive it for a year, then sell it for a profit. That was never sustainable.

I would buy another new 3 or Y without hesitation. I keep my cars for 12-15 years so I don't much care about resale price.
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Just pray nothing ever goes wrong with it. I’m not taking that chance.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Used Tesla prices were artificially inflated during the Pandemic. For a while you could buy one, drive it for a year, then sell it for a profit. That was never sustainable.
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All EVs are depreciating for a few reasons.

The inflated prices during the pandemic, as you mentioned, due to the supply chain issues causing a mismatch in supply and demand, the expanded Federal tax credits lowering the cost of new EVs, and the drop in EV prices due to production ramps and technology improvements lowering the production costs as the cars moved from specialty toward mainstream cars. That, at least, was always expected and was Musk's stated goal from the start.

Funny that Salty criticizes the depreciation on his Tesla but seems quite happy with the deal he got on his used Mach-E due to it's own depreciation.

Hertz got hit very hard by the depreciation. They bought a large fleet of EVs, mostly Teslas, during the post-pandemic peak in prices. For the Teslas, at least, they did not get fleet discounts. Now they're having to book the depreciation each quarter from the falling value of the cars that they bought at temporarily inflated prices.

Salty said:
Just pray nothing ever goes wrong with it. I’m not taking that chance.
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Consumer Reports just ranked Tesla as the lowest total cost of ownership for both 0-5 years and 6-10 years.

www.consumerreports.org

Four of the Five Least Expensive Car Brands to Maintain Are American - Consumer Reports

In this look at the cost of car ownership, CR reveals the difference in maintenance and repair costs among 29 car brands at 5 and 10 years of ownership, based on member data.
www.consumerreports.org www.consumerreports.org

That link may require a subscription. This one doesn't but summarizes their findings.

 
Larry in TN said:
Funny that Salty criticizes the depreciation on his Tesla but seems quite happy with the deal he got on his used Mach-E due to it's own depreciation.
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How is that funny? It was my point. I intentionally sought out a used EV to buffer my own loss. The guy that sold the one I bought is no less screwed.

Consumer Reports just ranked Tesla as the lowest total cost of ownership for both 0-5 years and 6-10 years.
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True. Unless you have an issue. Then you are totally screwed. JMO
 
I saw one of these going down the road a few days ago. It looks like a shipping container on wheels. I hope the rest of the industry doesn’t adopt this design language. I think this is worse than the Pontiac Aztek.
 
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