Tesla Model 3 - Finally.

[flyingcheesehead]

Model 3 performance is 60K.

Yeah, you said AWD was 60K. It's not. Of course performance is expensive. It's still cheaper than a base model BMW M3.

 

[EdFred]

Yeah, you said AWD was 60K. It's not. Of course performance is expensive. It's still cheaper than a base model BMW M3.

Why would I get one of those to save fuel? I mean isn't that the whole point of going EV?

 

[Larry in TN]

Why would I get one of those to save fuel? I mean isn't that the whole point of going EV?

If your priority is the save fuel, i.e. economy, the standard Model 3 is the most efficient. That costs $44,990.

Step up to the Model 3 LR to add AWD and more range at the cost of a small decrease in efficiency (due to the heavier battery and weight of the second drive motor). That costs $50,990.

You are looking at the Model 3 Performance which does zero to 60mph in 3.1 seconds and has a top speed of 162mph. That is the least efficient of the three (due to the battery and extra motor of the LR plus larger wheels, 20" vs 18"). That costs $58,990.

As I've said before, EVs aren't for everyone. If you don't like them then don't get one. Penty of others do, and they're waiting weeks (or months) in line to buy them. None of the EV manufacturers can make them fast enough to keep up with demand, even at Tesla's current rate of nearly one-million during last quarter.

 

[wayne]

None of the EV manufacturers can make them fast enough to keep up with demand, even at Tesla's current rate of nearly one-million during last quarter.

Well, only Tesla really has enough demand to make that statement meaningful; outside of China. Ferrari just barely keeps up with demand too. Oh, I see Volkswagen sales are up, which I think is largely in Europe at this point.

Let's see if they can't "keep up with demand" when the volume is cranked up. Right now EVs are under 4% of vehicle sales in the US. That's a niche market. Tesla is cranking them out. The legacy car manufacturers are playing catch-up and still in very low volume.

 

[Larry in TN]

Well, only Tesla really has enough demand to make that statement meaningful

Long lines for Ford's Mach E and F150 Lightning. So much so that dealers are adding $5,000 or $10,000 additional mark-up above MSRP.

I'm not aware of any EVs that are in stock on dealership lots. They all require ordering and waiting.

 

[FastEddieB]

Step up to the Model 3 LR to add AWD and more range…

Some wag has made the point that “I wish I had less range” is something said by no one ever.

That was the model we chose, and the extra range adds flexibility, especially in parts of the country where Superchargers are few and far between. We did pay an extra $2,000 for red, but that’s it. Why? Because it pleases us, and that’s reason enough.

Again, we’re on a Florida trip and so far have hit 3 Superchargers - in Newnan, GA, Columbus, GA and Tallahassee. Plus we’ve overnight charged on 120v twice at a friend’s in Tallahassee. We’re new at this, and gradually learning how to get a handle on range anxiety. Other Tesla owners say it’s something you get over pretty quickly once you establish good charging habits.

 

[EdFred]

Long lines for Ford's Mach E and F150 Lightning. So much so that dealers are adding $5,000 or $10,000 additional mark-up above MSRP.

I'm not aware of any EVs that are in stock on dealership lots. They all require ordering and waiting.

The same goes for ICE vehicles. Maybe you heard of the chip shortage and why only certain models are being shipped.

And I already addressed the 50k model.

But you conveniently ignore things...again.

 

[Velocity173]

Some valid points in sticking with Tesla over the other guys. At least for the foreseeable future.

 

[Larry in TN]

But you conveniently ignore things...again.

No need to be rude.

You were complaining that the Model 3 Performance wasn't practical. I agree. It's not intended to be practical. It is intended to be very fast, and it is. The standard Model 3 and the Model 3 LR are the practical options.

I'm not concerned with efficiency. I drive less than 7,000 miles per year so it makes very little difference to me. I bought the long range model because that's what was more important to me. I see very little value in the performance version. For me, it would be a waste of money. I like the car for the technology. I grew up in the early 1970s watching The Jetsons, Lost in Space, Star Trek, and Battlestar Galactica. This is the car I wanted when I was a kid. It's nice that charging at home costs me about 25% of what it would cost me in gasoline to drive the same trips in one of my Mazda3s, but I'd pay more in electricity to drive the Tesla, if that's what it took. Owners who drive a lot of miles are probably on the other end of that scale than me.

And I already addressed the 50k model.

You said you wanted AWD. The 50k ($50,990) M3LR is AWD. It also has the longest range of the three.

If you don't want an EV then don't get an EV. Should work out fine that way all around.

 

[Velocity173]

Practical is in the eye of the beholder. There’s practical for all situations and practical for a particular mission. I was looking at getting a Smart Car EV. 76 miles range definitely isn’t practical for a road trip. Neither is it’s hauling capacity but a 31 mile trip to work, charge it, and 31 miles home? That’s definitely practical for what I needed.

At 230 ish miles, my S will more than meet my daily commute and possibly light road trip with maybe one charge. Won’t be long before battery swaps are available anyway.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/our-next-energy-tests-750-mile-prototype-battery-in-a-tesla-model-s/

 

[wayne]

Long lines for Ford's Mach E and F150 Lightning. So much so that dealers are adding $5,000 or $10,000 additional mark-up above MSRP.

I'm not aware of any EVs that are in stock on dealership lots. They all require ordering and waiting.

Because the runs were so small. Easy to sell out of a small run.

Demand is certainly higher than they expected.

Plus there are big price increases on most cars, including used cars. Heck, I can get as much as I paid for my car that I bought 5 years ago. That's just nuts.




Wayne

 

[EdFred]

No need to be rude.

You were complaining that the Model 3 Performance wasn't practical. I agree. It's not intended to be practical. It is intended to be very fast, and it is. The standard Model 3 and the Model 3 LR are the practical options.

I'm not concerned with efficiency. I drive less than 7,000 miles per year so it makes very little difference to me. I bought the long range model because that's what was more important to me. I see very little value in the performance version. For me, it would be a waste of money. I like the car for the technology. I grew up in the early 1970s watching The Jetsons, Lost in Space, Star Trek, and Battlestar Galactica. This is the car I wanted when I was a kid. It's nice that charging at home costs me about 25% of what it would cost me in gasoline to drive the same trips in one of my Mazda3s, but I'd pay more in electricity to drive the Tesla, if that's what it took. Owners who drive a lot of miles are probably on the other end of that scale than me.


You said you wanted AWD. The 50k ($50,990) M3LR is AWD. It also has the longest range of the three.

If you don't want an EV then don't get an EV. Should work out fine that way all around.

Again, you ignored what I stated even in regards to the 50k model out of either ignorance or convenience when I stated the reason for buying an EV. I'll be nice and grant you it's convenience, and not that you have trouble with reading comprehension.

 

[JOhnH]

Why would I get one of those to save fuel? I mean isn't that the whole point of going EV?

NO.

 

[EdFred]

Because the runs were so small. Easy to sell out of a small run.

Demand is certainly higher than they expected.

Plus there are big price increases on most cars, including used cars. Heck, I can get as much as I paid for my car that I bought 5 years ago. That's just nuts.

Wayne

Dad bought an 18 or 19 Sierra brand new. A deer punched through the front end in the fall. Insurance gave him more for the truck than what he paid for it. Of course it was still less than what he can buy a replacement for. But it's only the EVs that are in demand if you ask some people.

 

[EdFred]

NO.

So, owning an EV is just status and about being able to keep up with the vegans? Because if it's not about fuel and money savings, it certainly isn't about saving the planet.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

How are the sound systems in the Teslas?

 

[brcase]

You guys are scarin' me. I have never gotten in a car or a plane and not know where I was or what I was in.

I will admit that those first few flights as a student I would get into the plane and look to the left and right to check the rear view mirrors, but after solo even that stopped.

I did get pulled over once driving home after about an 8 hour day at the airport. The office asked why I was driving over the center line.
Not sure he fully understood that I had inadvertently reverted back to taxing down the center line. But he didn’t cite me for it.

Brian

 

[JOhnH]

So, owning an EV is just status and about being able to keep up with the vegans? Because if it's not about fuel and money savings, it certainly isn't about saving the planet.

There is no single reason that people buy Teslas.
I haven't bought one yet because I already own one transportation vehicle that is even more illogical and less justifiable. It's called a Bonanza! I could save tons of money if I sold the bonanza and bought an ICE car. But that's not my choice, and it's not your choice to make for me.

 

[Ted]

How are the sound systems in the Teslas?

They all come pre-programmed with a soundtrack of meditative chants that go along the lines of:

"You are awesome
Everyone who drives a normal car is a loser
You are so much better than all of them
Don't let them put you down for being a vegan
Everyone at parties wants to hear that you're a vegan who drives a Tesla"

 

[Zeldman]

Why do I hear that in Artie Ziff's voice.?? (voiced by Jon Lovitz)

"You are awesome
Everyone who drives a normal car is a loser
You are so much better than all of them
Don't let them put you down for being a vegan
Everyone at parties wants to hear that you're a vegan who drives a Tesla"

 

[Chip Sylverne]

I did get pulled over once driving home after about an 8 hour day at the airport. The office asked why I was driving over the center line.
Not sure he fully understood that I had inadvertently reverted back to taxing down the center line. But he didn’t cite me for it.

Brian

At least you weren't wearing foggles.

The Kia EV6 looks pretty cool, but don't know a thing about it.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

They all come pre-programmed with a soundtrack of meditative chants that go along the lines of:

"You are awesome
Everyone who drives a normal car is a loser
You are so much better than all of them
Don't let them put you down for being a vegan
Everyone at parties wants to hear that you're a vegan who drives a Tesla"

In fairness, you can also program the horn to make a fart noise. I'd consider buyi g one just for that.

 

[Velocity173]

They all come pre-programmed with a soundtrack of meditative chants that go along the lines of:

"You are awesome
Everyone who drives a normal car is a loser
You are so much better than all of them
Don't let them put you down for being a vegan
Everyone at parties wants to hear that you're a vegan who drives a Tesla"

It’s interesting when it comes to “fanboy” comments. I see the same thing on DeLorean sites.

Basically two types. The first is the passionate ones who don’t want to admit to the vehicle’s shortcomings. They’re in denial. They have a special car and it makes them feel special and the car is perfect in every way. In my opinion, they’re the same type who’ll never admit they made a wrong decision in life. That would mean they’re imperfect. It’s always what they planned.

Second, and I fall in this category, is the fanboy who’ll freely talk about the car’s shortcomings. There’s nothing wrong with buying a car based on passion. Heck, doesn’t even have to be practical (DeLorean). But at the end of the day, just admit the issues with the car. Not just the car but customer service. No secret, fit and finish and customer service aren’t high points with Teslas. But I get it, you love the car anyway.

 

[Ted]

It’s interesting when it comes to “fanboy” comments. I see the same thing on DeLorean sites.

Basically two types. The first is the passionate ones who don’t want to admit to the vehicle’s shortcomings. They’re in denial. They have a special car and it makes them feel special and the car is perfect in every way. In my opinion, they’re the same type who’ll never admit they made a wrong decision in life. That would mean they’re imperfect. It’s always what they planned.

Second, and I fall in this category, is the fanboy who’ll freely talk about the car’s shortcomings. There’s nothing wrong with buying a car based on passion. Heck, doesn’t even have to be practical (DeLorean). But at the end of the day, just admit the issues with the car. Not just the car but customer service. No secret, fit and finish and customer service aren’t high points with Teslas. But I get it, you love the car anyway.

I definitely agree that this is the case with, well, pretty much anything.

Some on here may recall that I used to own a Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 for something around 5 years. I bought it when I was in PA because it was a bucket list car that I'd wanted since high school, I wanted to play around with turbos, and (practical part) it was all wheel drive and the snow in PA meant an AWD fun car would be nice. I added studded snow tires in the winter and it was pretty unstoppable in any weather.

It was a terrible car with so many design flaws. I still (mostly) enjoyed it while I had it, but it really was not a well-designed car at all. VR-4 fans were mostly in that first category of "Deny all problems". I've always felt you can love and enjoy something while also admitting it's flawed.

 

[EdFred]

I've always felt you can love and enjoy something while also admitting it's flawed.

Not if it's Apple, Tesla, or Mooney!!!

 

[Larry in TN]

How are the sound systems in the Teslas?

It's pretty good for a factory system. Not as good as what you can get by spending an AMU, or two, at the car stereo shop. I've seen some talking about upgrading amps, speakers and subwoofers but haven't paid too much attention as I'm happy with the stock premium system.

The standard Model 3 has the base system. The Model 3 LR and Performance have the premium system. I've never driven the standard version so can't compare.

Strangely, there is no AM radio, only FM. Bluetooth pairing to your phone, of course. The primary audio source is streaming. You can log into your Spotify, and other, accounts or use the car's included streaming service. If you want an AM station, you have to stream it.

I was mostly streaming from my phone in my previous cars. Now, I'm usually streaming through the car or listening to FM.

 

[Salty]

It's pretty good for a factory system. Not as good as what you can get by spending an AMU, or two, at the car stereo shop. I've seen some talking about upgrading amps, speakers and subwoofers but haven't paid too much attention as I'm happy with the stock premium system.

The standard Model 3 has the base system. The Model 3 LR and Performance have the premium system. I've never driven the standard version so can't compare.

Strangely, there is no AM radio, only FM. Bluetooth pairing to your phone, of course. The primary audio source is streaming. You can log into your Spotify, and other, accounts or use the car's included streaming service. If you want an AM station, you have to stream it.

I was mostly streaming from my phone in my previous cars. Now, I'm usually streaming through the car or listening to FM.

nowadays most AM stations simulcast on an FM frequency as well. Coverage isn't always as good though.

 

[Velocity173]

I definitely agree that this is the case with, well, pretty much anything.

Some on here may recall that I used to own a Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 for something around 5 years. I bought it when I was in PA because it was a bucket list car that I'd wanted since high school, I wanted to play around with turbos, and (practical part) it was all wheel drive and the snow in PA meant an AWD fun car would be nice. I added studded snow tires in the winter and it was pretty unstoppable in any weather.

It was a terrible car with so many design flaws. I still (mostly) enjoyed it while I had it, but it really was not a well-designed car at all. VR-4 fans were mostly in that first category of "Deny all problems". I've always felt you can love and enjoy something while also admitting it's flawed.

Another thing that makes me laugh is how the fanboys treat Musk and DeLorean like gods. Don’t say anything bad about them or they’ll jump all over you.

People like Musk, DeLorean, Jobs, Bezos, etc., are smart, driven people but they didn’t do it own their own. They had an idea, in some cases not even their own but were smart enough to sell that idea and put the right people in place to bring it to market.

They aren’t (weren’t) saints either. DeLorean in particular. Jay Leno refuses to buy a DeLorean because of JZD’s reputation. He was a cutthroat businessman and would do anything to keep his dream alive…including a drug deal. Thing is, Jay speaks highly of Teslas and Musk. In reality, I have no doubt that all of these guys would have done something similar as JZD if in his shoes. Look at Musk, he wasn’t even one of the two founders of Tesla. They needed Musk because of his capital infusion to keep the company running. How he became CEO and the other two left (forced) is kinda shady. One of them even sued and settled out of court. While they both think Musk was the perfect one of the job, you can tell in interviews that they don’t like how it went down.

Always like the 3000GT but I leaned more towards the Stealth. Little sleeker looking in my opinion.

 

[bnt83]

Google "tesla wheel crack"

 

[Ted]

Another thing that makes me laugh is how the fanboys treat Musk and DeLorean like gods. Don’t say anything bad about them or they’ll jump all over you.

People like Musk, DeLorean, Jobs, Bezos, etc., are smart, driven people but they didn’t do it own their own. They had an idea, in some cases not even their own but were smart enough to sell that idea and put the right people in place to bring it to market.

They aren’t (weren’t) saints either. DeLorean in particular. Jay Leno refuses to buy a DeLorean because of JZD’s reputation. He was a cutthroat businessman and would do anything to keep his dream alive…including a drug deal. Thing is, Jay speaks highly of Teslas and Musk. In reality, I have no doubt that all of these guys would have done something similar as JZD if in his shoes. Look at Musk, he wasn’t even one of the two founders of Tesla. They needed Musk because of his capital infusion to keep the company running. How he became CEO and the other two left (forced) is kinda shady. One of them even sued and settled out of court. While they both think Musk was the perfect one of the job, you can tell in interviews that they don’t like how it went down.

I'd agree. One thing that you notice with Jay is that while he's not afraid to give his opinion, it's also pretty clear that there's a relationship aspect to it. I've heard him talk about not buying a DeLorean. But if I've noticed any consistency with his collection it's that there's an interesting story backed up with some sort of interesting achievement, usually in technology, performance, efficiency, something like that. The DeLorean is really none of those. Its performance and handling were lackluster, and really if it weren't for the Back to the Future series, it probably would've been as forgotten as the Bricklin.

Always like the 3000GT but I leaned more towards the Stealth. Little sleeker looking in my opinion.

It was just as bad of a car.

 

[wayne]

Long lines for Ford's Mach E and F150 Lightning. So much so that dealers are adding $5,000 or $10,000 additional mark-up above MSRP.

I'm not aware of any EVs that are in stock on dealership lots. They all require ordering and waiting.

Small numbers of Niro EV and EV6 cars are now in the Atlanta area. Usually only one to three per dealer. Not a lot, but then they haven't made many of either model.

If they are still around next week I may go check them out, mostly to see them in-person and to check out sizes. We have a major work event this weekend, so I'll be busy over the weekend. We rented an CUV (forget the model) last year and it took a little work to get the luggage in for four people; my wife's CX-5 had more room. So, I want to check out the storage space in them with the back seats upright for passengers.

Not sure if I'll buy one this year. Not sure buying version 1.0 is a great idea, and the EV6 (the 1.0 car) looks better than the Niro EV.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Always like the 3000GT but I leaned more towards the Stealth. Little sleeker looking in my opinion.

Both of them were always staring at the taillights of the Fairlady Z.

 

[Velocity173]

Small numbers of Niro EV and EV6 cars are now in the Atlanta area. Usually only one to three per dealer. Not a lot, but then they haven't made many of either model.

If they are still around next week I may go check them out, mostly to see them in-person and to check out sizes. We have a major work event this weekend, so I'll be busy over the weekend. We rented an CUV (forget the model) last year and it took a little work to get the luggage in for four people; my wife's CX-5 had more room. So, I want to check out the storage space in them with the back seats upright for passengers.

Not sure if I'll buy one this year. Not sure buying version 1.0 is a great idea, and the EV6 (the 1.0 car) looks better than the Niro EV.

Never fly the A model of any aircraft…wait it out.

 

[chartbundle]

I'm certainly starting to consider an EV. Especially with the rumors of a 400 Mile range on the new Chevy Pickup. That makes it so I can do my one horrible trip(Portland, about 300 miles round trip) without charging and my more regular trips as well. And since I'm a one car person and I hate pulling a trailer it would have to be a pickup.

We'll see how it goes as they get closer to reality.

 

[wayne]

Never fly the A model of any aircraft…wait it out.

While I'd like to get one, I'm thinking both that, plus the demand versus the supply will not make this year a good year to buy.

 

[Velocity173]

While I'd like to get one, I'm thinking both that, plus the demand versus the supply will not make this year a good year to buy.

Understand. I was actually looking at the EV6 myself before I got my S. Great Super Bowl commercial. Nice car and I prefer it over the Ioniq 5 but the final tally with everything I want would be over $50K. Just a bit outside of my budget,

 

[wayne]

Understand. I was actually looking at the EV6 myself before I got my S. Great Super Bowl commercial. Nice car and I prefer it over the Ioniq 5 but the final tally with everything I want would be over $50K. Just a bit outside of my budget,

That's the other thing holding me back. It's double or more what I paid for my Mustang Convertible. Fortunately with used car prices I can sell it for pretty much what I paid for it.

Still. Eek!



Wayne

 

[FastEddieB]

I'm certainly starting to consider an EV. Especially with the rumors of a 400 Mile range on the new Chevy Pickup. That makes it so I can do my one horrible trip(Portland, about 300 miles round trip) without charging and my more regular trips as well.

As mentioned, we’re on our first road trip in our Tesla Model 3 Long Range. So far, Knoxville-Tallahassee-St. Augustine. Pleasantly surprised at how many Supercharger stations there are along the route. All have been dedicated stations in shopping center parking lots except for one on I-10 east of Tallahassee at a gas station. All had the majority of stalls open. Plus, each night at a friend’s house in Tallahassee we picked up about 60 miles of range just plugged into 120v. Leaving St. Augustine there’s a Supercharger right before I-95. We’re headed to St. Simon’s Island later today, and there’s one nearby there outside of Brunswick, again near the interstate.

We’re new at this, and generally have been charging to 300 miles when we charge, about 80% of our maximum. Charge rate slows down a lot beyond that point. Once we get the hang of it, we’ll probably just charge to the range required to get to the next station with a nice safety margin.

I mention this because even on your Portland round trip, you might find it convenient to stop at a Supercharger at some point for a very quick charge of 10 to 15 minutes while you stretch or have coffee or whatever. It’s more expensive than home charging, but still less than gas in an equivalent ICE car. So far this trip…

That quick charge in Columbus gave us a little breathing room - with that we arrived at Tallahassee with 16% (61 miles) remaining. An ICE car wouldn’t typically even warn LOW FUEL at that point, but of course gas stations are still way more numerous than Superchargers. For now!

 

[Larry in TN]

We’re new at this, and generally have been charging to 300 miles

I would encourage you to tap the [miles] readout, next to the battery symbol at the top of the screen, to change it to percentage. That figure displays the EPA range rating for your current state of charge. It's next to useless. It's calculated using an average wH/mi figure that the EPA came up with as a compromise between city and highway driving and will almost never match the type of driving you're doing. All it does is lead to range anxiety when it decreases at a rate faster, or slower, than the miles you are driving.

For an accurate range figure, use the Energy screen. It shows range based on your actual wH/mi consumption over the past 5mi, 15mi, or 30mi period. Even better, when you're navigating to a destination, the Energy screen shows the prediction based on the roads, speeds, and elevation changes that you will be encountering. This is very accurate and is usually slightly pessimistic which is exactly what you want.

when we charge, about 80% of our maximum. Charge rate slows down a lot beyond that point. Once we get the hang of it, we’ll probably just charge to the range required to get to the next station with a nice safety margin.

Exactly that! It's just like flight planning. When you are doing charge-and-go, charge enough to make it to your next charging stop plus reserve. That minimized the overall time spent charging. If you're making an extended stop, for a meal, etc., charging longer will shorten the next charging stop and/or extend the next leg to a Supercharger farther away.

When we took our trip to the mountains of East Tennessee, bypassing Supercharger after Supercharger was a big confidence builder. The more you drive, the less you worry about range.

 

[Salty]

Sounds like a right pain in the ass to me. I’m not planning on using mine for long trips.