Tales of my CFI checkride (long)

kath

Administrator
Management Council Member
PoA Technical Administrator
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
1,871
Location
Anchorage, AK
Display Name

Display name:
Katherine
DAY ONE

First, the Oral. I arrived at 9:00am and we finished a little before 5:00pm. For the mathematically challenged, that's eight hours. (My PhD defense only took three hours, maybe a little less!) Minus about a half an hour break in the middle.

I'd given the DPE a heads-up that I'm a college professor and would be coming to the checkride exempt from the FOI knowledge test, and once meeting me I'm sure he had me "figured out" within 10 minutes of me walking through the door. He seemed to already know my strengths (pedagogy!), and my weaknesses (regulations!), and he wasted no time on the stuff I was good at. All my cool computer animations and toys from the physics lab stayed in the box. He "stumped the chump" until I was royally stumped and/or feeling like a chump. Endorsements: I had thought this was a pretty straightforward topic that I was well-prepared for... boy was I wrong! Having AC 61-65G on hand was a lifesaver. But he also helped me, doing a lot of teaching me himself right then and there, to be a better instructor once I get out there. He would say things like, "Everything you've just said is correct, BUT..." and then school me about something I hadn't thought of, or that he thought was more important. (That phrase came up a lot.)

Eight hours is plenty of time to make a lot of mistakes, and admit to them, and admit to not knowing a lot of things. I was VERY thankful for all the colored bookmark-tabs I'd stuck on my FAR book so I could find regs quickly, but even then, I had to hunt for some things (how to endorse for an add-on rating??) on the spot. When I'd say something like, "I don't know, but it's in here somewhere <thumping at the FAR book on the table>", he'd respond with "Okay. FIND IT. I'm going to stretch my legs for a bit..." and walk out of the room. (That phrase came up a lot too.)

I know that one of the standard pieces of checkride advice generally is: "Never volunteer extra information - when the examiner wants to move on, just let him." I did *not* follow this advice for my oral; I pretty much bared everything. But then again, a CFI oral is supposed to be a little different, isn't it? Take, for instance, this fun exchange:

DPE: "Is survival gear required to be in the airplane? If so, where you can find that written?"
<I ponder, racking my memory, for a little while.>
Me: "Y'know, I've always heard this rumor that it's required in Alaska, but I've never seen that written anywhere and I have no idea where it comes from or if it's even really a thing."
DPE: <chuckling> "Yeah, that's pretty much right! Okay, moving on..."
Me: "Wait... wait... no... What's the answer? Is it required or not?"
DPE: "It's not required in the FAR's. But it's required by Alaska state law. Couldn't tell ya exactly where!"
Me: "You mean it's buried somewhere in Alaska statute or something?"
DPE: "Yup."
Me: "Oh. Huh."

...Or, after the oral was over (yes, OVER!), I couldn't resist a gesture at the box of physics toys in the corner of the room, saying: "Gee, and I didn't even get to play with any of the toys that I brought!"
DPE: <eyeing the enormous bicycle-wheel thing> "Yeah. I *was* kinda wondering what *that* thing was for."
Me: "My gyroscopic-precession demo? Well, I'm *so* glad you asked! Here, hold this end... now this represents your propeller, I'm going to get it spinning...."

Try as we might to seem smart on the outside, one can't maintain any kind of facade in there after eight hours. Your DPE knows this. It's impossible to be anyone but your own flawed self at that point, so just own it. I think I might've gotten points for honesty, when he asked "Tell me about your technique for doing power-off 180's", and I responded by heaving a resigned sigh and saying "Well, I gotta be honest... every one I do is different." "Good answer," he said. This was at about Hour Seven.

At Hour 7.5, he asked me whether you can slip with flaps. :)

The weather had been marginal all day, and I was exhausted, so needless to say we discontinuanced the flight portion. As I was packing up my stuff, some of the flight instructors in the building gave me congratulatory high-fives and said things like "Hey, the oral is the HARD part! Now, all you have to do is FLY! Easy!" Oh, you don't know me, I thought to myself. Remember, I'm an academic. Surviving tests is kind of my thing. Flying, on the other hand, is a completely different skill that does not translate...

DAY TWO

The Anchorage weather has been dominated by clouds and occasional rain for most of this month.
Flight day dawned with a pretty decent forecast: SCT low stuff dissipating, and BKN or OVC at 4000 or 6000 ish depending on the airport. Well, it was that over the *airports*, but (as it turns out) there was an imposing cloud layer blanketing my normal practice area starting at 1500 feet. I learned this only after takeoff, when we had a clear view across the Cook Inlet to the other side. As we discussed what to do about the clouds, we also spotted some F22's heading into Elmendorf, and Tower called to say they were no longer able to give us the Part 93 altitude deviation we'd previously been granted. So the flight started with a diversion, on climbout, and boxed in the middle of a complex airspace. Less than five minutes in. Okaaaaaay. Roll with it! We had to fly about 30 NM away to find a place with a hole in the ceilings big enough to do our airwork, and stayed there to do landings at an airport I've only been to a handful of times.

Just as with the oral, my DPE took a "That was OK, but let me show you something..." approach to all my maneuvers. We did most of the maneuvers twice, once done by me teaching, and once with him at the controls teaching me something. We did steep turns, stalls, a cross-controlled stall, lazy 8's, short and soft takeoffs and landings, a power-off 180, a surprise engine-out on the upwind leg of the pattern, and a soft-field takeoff with reduced power, before heading back to my home field for a no-flaps landing, doing some 8's on pylons along the way. (Maybe I'm missing one? It was all such a blur...)

I had never done a reduced-power takeoff before... the reason the DPE asked for it is that our particular plane (a 180-HP C-172) is so well-horsepowered, and we're at sea level in a cool place and under gross, that the classic "look how she struggles, gotta keep it in ground effect" speech is actually a difficult thing to demonstrate convincingly to students in this particular plane. "You can do this to simulate high density altitude," the DPE said, "Here, you do the takeoff. I'll control your throttle..." That was interesting. And a good tip for instructing.

Just as with the oral, there was plenty of opportunity to make mistakes (boy, howdy!), and to acknowledge and describe them, which I tried to do whenever they happened. When the flight was over, the DPE said I had done fine and passed. "If you'd done anything to fail, I'd have told you immediately," he said. Before doing paperwork, we did sit down for a thorough debrief; he discussed again pretty much ALL of my maneuvers with me again, especially the ones that weren't as pretty, and the one major humiliating Brain Fart I'd had during the ride, with tips and warnings and advice.

Overall, I'd say the whole experience was really humbling, but really positive.

Now that it's over, I'm struck with all kinds of additional questions. Like, where can I get freelance-CFI insurance? And how can I sign a logbook with my certificate number when my temporary certificate just says "Pending"? And what will *students* be like? Surely, they will all be just like me, and never do anything crazy.... right? right? right?!?
 
Congratulations! Man am I glad I do not have to get one in today's environment. I doubt mine lasted more than 3 hours total, it was with the FAA back in the late 70's.
 
Congratulations! Man am I glad I do not have to get one in today's environment. I doubt mine lasted more than 3 hours total, it was with the FAA back in the late 70's.

Yep same here. 8 hour oral is ridiculous IMO.

Oh, forgot to add, congrats @kath! Well earned.
 
Last edited:
Yep same here. 8 hour oral is ridiculous IMO.

Well, take a cloudy day... combine a DPE who likes to talk, with a candidate who likes to talk, and...... :)
 
Do you think teaching (at any level) made the oral and/or the flying easier?
 
Cool. We now have a new CFI that someone with 2 hours as a student pilot can cast aspersions about.

:D

Congrats!
 
Cool. We now have a new CFI that someone with 2 hours as a student pilot can cast aspersions about.

:D

Congrats!
But it's possible that his first student has more hours as a student than he does as a CFI!
 
DAY ONE



Eight hours is plenty of time to make a lot of mistakes, and admit to them, and admit to not knowing a lot of things. I was VERY thankful for all the colored bookmark-tabs I'd stuck on my FAR book so I could find regs quickly, but even then, I had to hunt for some things (how to endorse for an add-on rating??) on the spot. When I'd say something like, "I don't know, but it's in here somewhere <thumping at the FAR book on the table>", he'd respond with "Okay. FIND IT. I'm going to stretch my legs for a bit..." and walk out of the room. (That phrase came up a lot too.)

I know that one of the standard pieces of checkride advice generally is: "Never volunteer extra information - when the examiner wants to move on, just let him." I did *not* follow this advice for my oral; I pretty much bared everything. But then again, a CFI oral is supposed to be a little different, isn't it? Take, for instance, this fun exchange:

DPE: "Is survival gear required to be in the airplane? If so, where you can find that written?"
<I ponder, racking my memory, for a little while.>
Me: "Y'know, I've always heard this rumor that it's required in Alaska, but I've never seen that written anywhere and I have no idea where it comes from or if it's even really a thing."
DPE: <chuckling> "Yeah, that's pretty much right! Okay, moving on..."
Me: "Wait... wait... no... What's the answer? Is it required or not?"
DPE: "It's not required in the FAR's. But it's required by Alaska state law. Couldn't tell ya exactly where!"
Me: "You mean it's buried somewhere in Alaska statute or something?"
DPE: "Yup."
Me: "Oh. Huh."

...Or, after the oral was over (yes, OVER!), I couldn't resist a gesture at the box of physics toys in the corner of the room, saying: "Gee, and I didn't even get to play with any of the toys that I brought!"
DPE: <eyeing the enormous bicycle-wheel thing> "Yeah. I *was* kinda wondering what *that* thing was for."
Me: "My gyroscopic-precession demo? Well, I'm *so* glad you asked! Here, hold this end... now this represents your propeller, I'm going to get it spinning...."

Try as we might to seem smart on the outside, one can't maintain any kind of facade in there after eight hours. Your DPE knows this. It's impossible to be anyone but your own flawed self at that point, so just own it. I think I might've gotten points for honesty, when he asked "Tell me about your technique for doing power-off 180's", and I responded by heaving a resigned sigh and saying "Well, I gotta be honest... every one I do is different." "Good answer," he said. This was at about Hour Seven.

At Hour 7.5, he asked me whether you can slip with flaps. :)

The weather had been marginal all day, and I was exhausted, so needless to say we discontinuanced the flight portion. As I was packing up my stuff, some of the flight instructors in the building gave me congratulatory high-fives and said things like "Hey, the oral is the HARD part! Now, all you have to do is FLY! Easy!" Oh, you don't know me, I thought to myself. Remember, I'm an academic. Surviving tests is kind of my thing. Flying, on the other hand, is a completely different skill that does not translate...

DAY TWO

The Anchorage weather has been dominated by clouds and occasional rain for most of this month.
Flight day dawned with a pretty decent forecast: SCT low stuff dissipating, and BKN or OVC at 4000 or 6000 ish depending on the airport. Well, it was that over the *airports*, but (as it turns out) there was an imposing cloud layer blanketing my normal practice area starting at 1500 feet. I learned this only after takeoff, when we had a clear view across the Cook Inlet to the other side. As we discussed what to do about the clouds, we also spotted some F22's heading into Elmendorf, and Tower called to say they were no longer able to give us the Part 93 altitude deviation we'd previously been granted. So the flight started with a diversion, on climbout, and boxed in the middle of a complex airspace. Less than five minutes in. Okaaaaaay. Roll with it! We had to fly about 30 NM away to find a place with a hole in the ceilings big enough to do our airwork, and stayed there to do landings at an airport I've only been to a handful of times.

Just as with the oral, my DPE took a "That was OK, but let me show you something..." approach to all my maneuvers. We did most of the maneuvers twice, once done by me teaching, and once with him at the controls teaching me something. We did steep turns, stalls, a cross-controlled stall, lazy 8's, short and soft takeoffs and landings, a power-off 180, a surprise engine-out on the upwind leg of the pattern, and a soft-field takeoff with reduced power, before heading back to my home field for a no-flaps landing, doing some 8's on pylons along the way. (Maybe I'm missing one? It was all such a blur...)

I had never done a reduced-power takeoff before... the reason the DPE asked for it is that our particular plane
.

Now that it's over, I'm struck with all kinds of additional questions. Like, where can I get freelance-CFI insurance? And how can I sign a logbook with my certificate number when my temporary certificate just says "Pending"? And what will *students* be like? Surely, they will all be just like me, and never do anything crazy.... right? right? right?!?
 
Congragulations

Sounds like he was just enjoying the exam and the opportunity give you some additional tools for instructing.

Your CFI # will be your pilot Certificate # with CFI on the end. Unless perhaps your pilot certificate # is your Social security #.
NAFI/Avemco have pretty good Non-owned CFI Insurance.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
DAY ONE

First, the Oral. I arrived at 9:00am and we finished a little before 5:00pm. For the mathematically challenged, that's eight hours. (My PhD defense only took three hours, maybe a little less!) Minus about a half an hour break in the middle.

I'd given the DPE a heads-up that I'm a college professor and would be coming to the checkride exempt from the FOI knowledge test, and once meeting me I'm sure he had me "figured out" within 10 minutes of me walking through the door. He seemed to already know my strengths (pedagogy!), and my weaknesses (regulations!), and he wasted no time on the stuff I was good at. All my cool computer animations and toys from the physics lab stayed in the box. He "stumped the chump" until I was royally stumped and/or feeling like a chump. Endorsements: I had thought this was a pretty straightforward topic that I was well-prepared for... boy was I wrong! Having AC 61-65G on hand was a lifesaver. But he also helped me, doing a lot of teaching me himself right then and there, to be a better instructor once I get out there. He would say things like, "Everything you've just said is correct, BUT..." and then school me about something I hadn't thought of, or that he thought was more important. (That phrase came up a lot.)

Eight hours is plenty of time to make a lot of mistakes, and admit to them, and admit to not knowing a lot of things. I was VERY thankful for all the colored bookmark-tabs I'd stuck on my FAR book so I could find regs quickly, but even then, I had to hunt for some things (how to endorse for an add-on rating??) on the spot. When I'd say something like, "I don't know, but it's in here somewhere <thumping at the FAR book on the table>", he'd respond with "Okay. FIND IT. I'm going to stretch my legs for a bit..." and walk out of the room. (That phrase came up a lot too.)

I know that one of the standard pieces of checkride advice generally is: "Never volunteer extra information - when the examiner wants to move on, just let him." I did *not* follow this advice for my oral; I pretty much bared everything. But then again, a CFI oral is supposed to be a little different, isn't it? Take, for instance, this fun exchange:

DPE: "Is survival gear required to be in the airplane? If so, where you can find that written?"
<I ponder, racking my memory, for a little while.>
Me: "Y'know, I've always heard this rumor that it's required in Alaska, but I've never seen that written anywhere and I have no idea where it comes from or if it's even really a thing."
DPE: <chuckling> "Yeah, that's pretty much right! Okay, moving on..."
Me: "Wait... wait... no... What's the answer? Is it required or not?"
DPE: "It's not required in the FAR's. But it's required by Alaska state law. Couldn't tell ya exactly where!"
Me: "You mean it's buried somewhere in Alaska statute or something?"
DPE: "Yup."
Me: "Oh. Huh."

...Or, after the oral was over (yes, OVER!), I couldn't resist a gesture at the box of physics toys in the corner of the room, saying: "Gee, and I didn't even get to play with any of the toys that I brought!"
DPE: <eyeing the enormous bicycle-wheel thing> "Yeah. I *was* kinda wondering what *that* thing was for."
Me: "My gyroscopic-precession demo? Well, I'm *so* glad you asked! Here, hold this end... now this represents your propeller, I'm going to get it spinning...."

Try as we might to seem smart on the outside, one can't maintain any kind of facade in there after eight hours. Your DPE knows this. It's impossible to be anyone but your own flawed self at that point, so just own it. I think I might've gotten points for honesty, when he asked "Tell me about your technique for doing power-off 180's", and I responded by heaving a resigned sigh and saying "Well, I gotta be honest... every one I do is different." "Good answer," he said. This was at about Hour Seven.

At Hour 7.5, he asked me whether you can slip with flaps. :)

The weather had been marginal all day, and I was exhausted, so needless to say we discontinuanced the flight portion. As I was packing up my stuff, some of the flight instructors in the building gave me congratulatory high-fives and said things like "Hey, the oral is the HARD part! Now, all you have to do is FLY! Easy!" Oh, you don't know me, I thought to myself. Remember, I'm an academic. Surviving tests is kind of my thing. Flying, on the other hand, is a completely different skill that does not translate...

DAY TWO

The Anchorage weather has been dominated by clouds and occasional rain for most of this month.
Flight day dawned with a pretty decent forecast: SCT low stuff dissipating, and BKN or OVC at 4000 or 6000 ish depending on the airport. Well, it was that over the *airports*, but (as it turns out) there was an imposing cloud layer blanketing my normal practice area starting at 1500 feet. I learned this only after takeoff, when we had a clear view across the Cook Inlet to the other side. As we discussed what to do about the clouds, we also spotted some F22's heading into Elmendorf, and Tower called to say they were no longer able to give us the Part 93 altitude deviation we'd previously been granted. So the flight started with a diversion, on climbout, and boxed in the middle of a complex airspace. Less than five minutes in. Okaaaaaay. Roll with it! We had to fly about 30 NM away to find a place with a hole in the ceilings big enough to do our airwork, and stayed there to do landings at an airport I've only been to a handful of times.

Just as with the oral, my DPE took a "That was OK, but let me show you something..." approach to all my maneuvers. We did most of the maneuvers twice, once done by me teaching, and once with him at the controls teaching me something. We did steep turns, stalls, a cross-controlled stall, lazy 8's, short and soft takeoffs and landings, a power-off 180, a surprise engine-out on the upwind leg of the pattern, and a soft-field takeoff with reduced power, before heading back to my home field for a no-flaps landing, doing some 8's on pylons along the way. (Maybe I'm missing one? It was all such a blur...)

I had never done a reduced-power takeoff before... the reason the DPE asked for it is that our particular plane (a 180-HP C-172) is so well-horsepowered, and we're at sea level in a cool place and under gross, that the classic "look how she struggles, gotta keep it in ground effect" speech is actually a difficult thing to demonstrate convincingly to students in this particular plane. "You can do this to simulate high density altitude," the DPE said, "Here, you do the takeoff. I'll control your throttle..." That was interesting. And a good tip for instructing.

Just as with the oral, there was plenty of opportunity to make mistakes (boy, howdy!), and to acknowledge and describe them, which I tried to do whenever they happened. When the flight was over, the DPE said I had done fine and passed. "If you'd done anything to fail, I'd have told you immediately," he said. Before doing paperwork, we did sit down for a thorough debrief; he discussed again pretty much ALL of my maneuvers with me again, especially the ones that weren't as pretty, and the one major humiliating Brain Fart I'd had during the ride, with tips and warnings and advice.

Overall, I'd say the whole experience was really humbling, but really positive.

Now that it's over, I'm struck with all kinds of additional questions. Like, where can I get freelance-CFI insurance? And how can I sign a logbook with my certificate number when my temporary certificate just says "Pending"? And what will *students* be like? Surely, they will all be just like me, and never do anything crazy.... right? right? right?!?

Congrats. Something like 18 percent of applicants for CFI pass on their first go!
 
Do you think teaching (at any level) made the oral and/or the flying easier?

YES, absolutely... mostly for the oral, for which you have to prepare lesson plans and deliver a "mini-lecture" to your examiner on a topic of his or her choice. This is way easier (both to prepare, and to do) if you've already done it many times in a classroom. I can see how it might seem like a very foreign and nerve-wracking experience to someone who's not used to it. Like when I was a grad student and had never taught before, and it was all very intimidating.

Less helpful for the flying. Although for that portion too, you have to "talk through" everything you do, as you do it, and to use words that are appropriate to your audience (for beginning students, plain English not too jargony, and with a friendly tone, etc.). Having a lot of practice at this, even from outside aviation, helps a lot.
 
I'm prepping for my CFI initial, and am really hoping it doesn't turn into an 8 hour oral.
 
Congratulations! I think the CFI is THE hardest certificate to acquire. I think the examiners try their best to try to mess with your mind,which after 8 hours is like putty.
 
If you can count that high, you're obviously too smart to be a CFI!

(No offense, Kath!)
 
Physicist here who just did Private checkride. 8am to 2pm. Having done a PhD defense and gone far enough in the field to be presenting experimental results/interpretations to one of the people who won the Nobel Prize in the field I was presenting, it takes a lot to make me feel stressed by any test.

All that said, I was so worn out after just a Private checkride andI wasn't sure I'd passed since there is no clarity on what the actual functional standard for passing is, so the "I think we can call that satisfactory" handshake at the end gave me a much bigger emotional rush than I remember from my dissertation defense.

It sounds like CFI checkride might be an even bigger roller coaster...or is it easier to do later checkrides because maybe you've developed a sense for where the functional pass level is?

Oh, and BTW, I too was unable to abide by the "don't answer more than the minimum" thing. Curse of the physicist brain.
 
Last edited:
Congratulations! Keep it current if you can. (Wish someone would have told me that 30 years ago!)

Was the question, Can you slip with FLAPS, or Can YOU slip with flaps? :)
 
Congratulations!!! Proud of you girl :D;)
 
8 hour oral? Jesus...

Congrats!
 
Back
Top