T-Hangar neighbor. WWYD?

Used to be a flight school at VKX. They're still around (initials are AA) that were a complete pain in the ass to the other airport users. First, they decided that they wanted their planes all parked together, so me and a couple of others got kicked out of our tie down space so they could have the ones up front. The instructors would regularly leave the plane at the pump between students (or while debriefing one I guess) which bogged things up when the place was busy. Then, despite being given prime parking with plenty of room to pull through, their yahoo flight instructor decided to swing wide and clipped a pristine O-2 sitting on the maintenance ramp.
 
flyingron said:
First, they decided that they wanted their planes all parked together, so me and a couple of others got kicked out of our tie down space so they could have the ones up front.
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That's such a weird thing. I had that happen at the airport that my plane got totaled at. Transient parking had been the easily accessible parking right in front of the door. Flight school decided they wanted it, so they took it and everyone else had to park in the boonies. It wasn't the end of the world, of course, but I had never heard of such a demand before.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Is it a little rude? Sure. I'm not sure it is quite elevated to calling them "a bunch of lazy 20 somethings".
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Maybe I should have said Discourteous instead of lazy. Or Rude. Either way, I disagree with dismissing one's frustration with bad behavior by calling him old. If you must dismiss one's thoughts, feelings, or opinions, please reference something other than age. Fair?

(Put another way, Before we argue laziness against discourtesy, we don't know the reasons for their poor behavior, just that (at least) one member of this board considers it to be bad behavior (and that it frustrates him) and regardless of the validity of his feelings it is my position that dismissal of his frustrations should be done using something other than age...)
 
If nothing else is going to work out, maybe talk to your neighbor on the other side who never flies and see if he'll trade hangars.
You might even request a different hangar, if they allow that, and I'm not sure why they wouldn't, other than lease issues or doing paperwork.
I was able to secure a better hangar by adding my name to the list of hangars I wanted when they came open.
But, if someone next to you starts the same thing, well...

And if you did trade, and the flight school also moves... next to you... then you know you really ****ed em off ;)
 
Mtns2Skies said:
... And to be clear - he expressly stated he wouldn't have had an issue with his neighbor if they were in their 80's.
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let me correct your wrongness......"if my neighbor was an 80 year old guy that couldn’t close his door without help". THAT was his comment, not what you said.

not that I'm sticking up for the OP, because christ, just close the friggin door, but you magically forgot a critical portion of his comment in an attempt to support your "but I'm a millennial and you're an ageist boomer" view.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
what if it was a 20 year old guy that couldn't close his door? to @2-Bit Speed 's point... why does age matter?
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I don't know and I don't particularly care. I'm not sticking up for his comments or anyone else's. I'm just pointing out your attempt to lie by omission, er, use typical mainstream media tactics to sway the idiot public (not that PoA folks are idiots), um, omit twist facts. I'm not trying to be dooshy, I just don't like seeing this, even if it really wasn't your intention.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Point is:

If the OP's neighbor was 80 (AND UNABLE TO CLOSE HIS DOOR) = that's not problem, let's be heroic and help him out
If the OP's neighbor was 20 (AND UNABLE TO CLOSE THE DOOR DUE TO TIME CONSTRAINTS) = Lazy disrespectful
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FTFY
respect your neighbors (and your elders) and close the door. young slackers who don't have or haven't learned respect don't get the benefit of the doubt (this is why I recommended actually talking to the students, maybe they just need to hear a point of view other than the CFI's). old timers with limited physical abilities do. but I PERSONALLY don't think this is about time or money or age. it's about respect.
 
eman1200 said:
FTFY
respect your neighbors (and your elders) and close the door. young slackers who don't have or haven't learned respect don't get the benefit of the doubt (this is why I recommended actually talking to the students, maybe they just need to hear a point of view other than the CFI's). old timers with limited physical abilities do. but I PERSONALLY don't think this is about time or money or age. it's about respect.
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so....maybe it was a bald, fat, white guy? :) ....just say'n
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Point is:

If the OP's neighbor was 80 (AND UNABLE TO CLOSE HIS DOOR) = that's not problem, let's be heroic and help him out
If the OP's neighbor was 20 (AND UNABLE TO CLOSE THE DOOR DUE TO TIME CONSTRAINTS) = Lazy
Mtns2skies (CALLS THIS OUT) = Bad

better? @eman1200

But yah. This is silly. Just close the stupid door.
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I don't know for sure, but I suspect that if, say, the 20 year old student was also physically unable to close the door without help, no one would have an issue with it, either.

In other words, it has absolutely nothing to do with age, and everything to do with the "why". It's the assumption that the CFI/student's time is somehow so much more valuable and important than a "non-revenue" flier. If the student doesn't have two minutes to operate the door, he doesn't have 50 minutes to fly, either...and no, it wouldn't be the end of the world for him to fly for 48 minutes every day instead of 50. And the CFI only loses 20 minutes a day at most...assuming he stands beside every student each time they operate the door. (Unless I'm a magic exception, the only time the CFI has ever had to wait for me to get the plane out was my first flight in the plane and she was helping me get it out and preflight it...so there is literally zero time for most CFIs, as they make their students do it while they debrief their last student.)
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Umm see below:

But that's not what the OP said. The OP said Lazy, which in of itself is disrespectful to his neighbors. Respect has to be a two way street. And if it were, maybe closing a door once a week or so wouldn't have had to be a thread.
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not sure how I said anything different. if the people, young or old, aren't closing the door because they're lazy, that is no doubt disrespectful.
 
Bob Noel said:
If it only takes a few seconds to close the door, then the CFI and student won't be inconvenienced at all by closing the door.

If the CFI and student is so rushed for time that a few seconds to close the door would be a burden, then what other shortcuts are they taking?
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I had one of these guys for a neighbor. Except he always slid his door open hard and far enough it would bend the lock pins on my doors (in the same track) at a wonky angle and jam them. Repeatedly.

So I had to close his door, then get airport maintenance to push mine back into position with the airport tug's bumper so I could get my doors open. Then sledgehammer my locking pins back straight.

Some people just don't care.
 
What is the reason for inconveniencing someone? Is it valid?

The original poster has implied that the reason this flight school inconveniences him is because they value their time more than his. He considers this selfish.

Mtns2Skies said:
So the OP disparages and insults his neighbors because they're in their 20's.
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No, he did not. Their age was tangential to his complaint, which is why I didn't address it.

I believe the reference to their age was only to indicate that they were (or presumably should be) able-bodied, thus distinct from an octogenarian who might not have the strength (due to his age) required to move a heavy, cumbersome door. It was not an attempt to call everyone under the age of thirty lazy. At least, that was how I read it.

@cowtowner Please correct me if I'm wrong in the above lines.

Mtns2Skies said:
And to be clear - he expressly stated he wouldn't have had an issue with his neighbor if they were in their 80's [and unable to operate the door].
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FIFY

Mtns2Skies said:
you're upset that I dismiss his thoughts due to age because he dismissed people's actions due to age... Man I love standards, but I think you've got me beat since you've got two of them! ;) :p
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Maybe I should have used words like "just" "only" or "solely." As expressed above, I do not believe I have been applying a double-standard.
 
since we're talking about hangar neighbors.....I had one who would let his dog take a dump in front of my hangar. This went on for a while before I caught on. Being the good Christian upstanding citizen that I am....I gathered up all his fecal mater and hung it in a plastic bag on his hangar door. It stopped.

He laughed about it....and from then on he always waved when he saw me. ;)
 
Persistence and courtesy. Be kind to your enemies--it drives them crazy.

Every time there's an issue and when you can, walk up in person, shake hands in a friendly greeting and ask again that they see about their hangar door. If they don't, next time it happens, repeat the process. Always smile real big if you possibly can. Maybe throw in a Bible verse.

Keep it up and I promise you will get results. Why? It weirds them out and wears them down. After a while they don't want to see your friendly face yet again.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
what if it was a 20 year old guy that couldn't close his door? to @2-Bit Speed 's point... why does age matter?
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Age matters because that is who they are. A bunch of lazy early 20 something’s that feel their time is more important than mine

Are you one of the people in the world that feel we shouldn’t release a full description of a perp wanted for a crime, because god forbid, it might hurt a segment of the populations feeling?
 
2-Bit Speed said:
What is the reason for inconveniencing someone? Is it valid?

The original poster has implied that the reason this flight school inconveniences him is because they value their time more than his. He considers this selfish.



No, he did not. Their age was tangential to his complaint, which is why I didn't address it.

I believe the reference to their age was only to indicate that they were (or presumably should be) able-bodied, thus distinct from an octogenarian who might not have the strength (due to his age) required to move a heavy, cumbersome door. It was not an attempt to call everyone under the age of thirty lazy. At least, that was how I read it.

@cowtowner Please correct me if I'm wrong in the above lines.



FIFY



Maybe I should have used words like "just" "only" or "solely." As expressed above, I do not believe I have been applying a double-standard.
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You are correct. I used an 80 year old guy, because that is who my other hangar neighbor is. He has a hard time with the door and asks politely if I can help him.

Now when I see him pull up I go open the door for him without him having to ask

See. I’m not a a$$ to everyone.
 
I've known plenty of jerks of all ages, and also plenty of genuinely nice, helpful people. Some people start out as arrogant jerks, and grow into thoughtful people as they mature. Others turn into bigger jerks as they age. IMO innate traits of narcissism and kindness overpower whatever generational traits may be present.
 
Half Fast said:
I feel bad for some of you folks. I guess I'm just lucky, but so far all my hangar neighbors have been friendly, courteous, helpful, just generally overall good people, whether old, young, or everything in between. The atmosphere is much like an SCCA race paddock.
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It's almost like niceness tends to produce a similar response.
 
Eh - it's probably not that the CFI is a guy in his 20's. It's probably because he's a pilot. Seems that the index of "I'm God's gift to all mankind" attitude is rather high with pilots. Of all ages.

And.... got to admit, private airplane at a private hangar at a private airport. Kind of pegs the needle on "First World Problem".

I do like the persistent, lay siege by "Be nice, keep asking him to shut the door". Don't be petty, block his door, etc. Lord knows we have enough Drama Kings and Queens in the pilot world.
 
We have a problem at our untowered airport with a local helicopter school landing on the runway and sitting there, hovering, for minutes on end. When we complain, we're told that their students pay a lot of money for their instruction and that gives them the right.

For the original problem, I've reconsidered. Get a bunch of twist ties (Amazon sells them) and if you have to close their doors, twist-tie the latch or whatever closed. They probably won't see it on their first tug on the door to open it, and if they complain, just tell them you were worried about the doors sliding back and hitting your plane as you rolled it out.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Showed up to fly

My side door was closed. The other is open (they are on the end so no biggie)

Maybe they got that I was ticked off
 
I have often wondered for the past 40 years of flying WHY pilots leave their hangar doors open while they are out on joyrides. I see it all the time. Don't understand it at all.
 
cowtowner said:
Showed up to fly

My side door was closed. The other is open (they are on the end so no biggie)

Maybe they got that I was ticked off
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Maybe one of them is a POAer and saw the thread. Anyway, congrats on moving-neighbor-door-free flying. Hope it becomes a pattern.
 
midwestpa24 said:
After reading most of this thread, all I can add is thank God for bi-fold doors.
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And it's not just for prevention of interference with neighboring hangars. You get to push a button instead of the actual heavy sliding door which depends on grease to even work . . .
 
dbahn said:
And it's not just for prevention of interference with neighboring hangars. You get to push a button instead of the actual heavy sliding door which depends on grease to even work . . .
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True, but I have rented seven different hangars over the years. All were bifold doors, but a couple of them had chains you needed to pull to move a counterweight.

As for leaving the hangar door open, sure, I have done that many times. Why not? But these days I am flying airplanes I don't own, and out of respect for the owners and their possessions, I close and lock the door when leaving the hangar area.
 
midwestpa24 said:
After reading most of this thread, all I can add is thank God for bi-fold doors.
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Guy kiddie corner from me a few weeks ago who I've never seen before. Left his bi fold open while he ground ran with the cowl off right in front of my hangar. I'm an end unit and park in the grass next to the hangar. Where he was running I couldn't even park. Would have had to walk in front of the wing to unlock the hangar. 15 minute little yuk yuk.
 
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