suggestion for improvement

SkyChaser said:
That said, I do my absolute best to never post anything I would be ashamed to read fifteen years into the future. I end up deleting far more replies than I actually post, but in my 5.5 years of being here, I can count on one hand the things I wish I hadn't posted.
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:yeahthat:

Back in the day most children had a sense of what shame was because momma would sometimes ask, "have you no shame?" Dad didn't do a lot of explaining ... he'd just give you "the look!" :eek:
 
sarangan said:
I’ve also noticed this kind of behavior is much more common from posters hiding behind unidentifiable screen names. Perhaps one way to increase civility among people is to not hide behind a mask.
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Some of our more informative (and better behaved) posters do not post under their real name as well.

I don't think a handle is any indication of likely behavior and I don't think POA should be in the business of validating identities in the hopes of improving behavior.

Nauga,
who answers to 'Nauga'
 
Dropped in here for a last time, not to pick a fight but as a final note: I think there was a lot of good, trenchant discussion here and at the end of the day one of posters is quite correct, this forum is not for me. I related this fracas to one of my daughters who is gen Z and thus emerged from the womb clutching an iphone and is well versed in all things internetical. She immediately recognized it and said, this is one of the behaviors you see in a dying community, people form groups and exclude the outsiders. She gave me a couple if examples of internet groups where she’s seen this behavior. Food for thought and maybe a bit close to the bone.I wish everyone the best, peace.
 
Iflydogs said:
Dropped in here for a last time, not to pick a fight but as a final note: I think there was a lot of good, trenchant discussion here and at the end of the day one of posters is quite correct, this forum is not for me. I related this fracas to one of my daughters who is gen Z and thus emerged from the womb clutching an iphone and is well versed in all things internetical. She immediately recognized it and said, this is one of the behaviors you see in a dying community, people form groups and exclude the outsiders. She gave me a couple if examples of internet groups where she’s seen this behavior. Food for thought and maybe a bit close to the bone.I wish everyone the best, peace.
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Well, I’m sure a gen z knows more than folks that have been guiding online communities for decades. If you aren’t happy here, then you are correct, it’s not for you. It’s also not about you.
 
I hope this isn't too snarky, but there's a difference between a blog and a discussion forum. There are a number of free blogging platforms that allow the creator to share his thoughts without receiving feedback.
 
It's unfortunate the OP didn't feel like it was a good fit after over 3 years here.

But come on...

PoA is like 20+ years old; ancient by most internet forum standards. It still has active members from the very earliest days when it was launched. And we have long-running threads many of us enjoy, like "Let's Make Friday Joke Day" which go back to 2007 (btw: if that thread was a person, it'd be old enough to vote). We have annual fly ins that members have been attending for well over a decade.

To me, that kind of continuity suggests that PoA and its mods are doing something right to preserve a cohesive community. It's member supported, uses volunteer mods, and is a place with a lot of repeat faces. People routinely help eachother solve maintenance, medical and training problems free of charge. Hell, we even have a page for condolences to members who have passed away. I feel like that's pretty civilized, no?

I was just writing on PoA about AOG. When I had a flat tire in real life in Indiana, you know who flew out to try and help me fix it? Someone from PoA! (Thanks David!). Or when I'm having an alternator problem and Bell206 helped me come up with a test plan to save me time and money (which helped a lot). Another PoA'er helped with my 3rd class medical (you can probably guess the doc :) ). Maybe things like that bias me a little bit, but I think there's some pretty good dudes and dudettes hanging around this place.

Suggesting it's some dying community that's transmutating into an exclusionary hellscape just seems like hyperbole to me. If you have interactions you don't like, just block the people. Voila! Done! You'll never hear from them again.
 
Iflydogs said:
Dropped in here for a last time, not to pick a fight but as a final note: I think there was a lot of good, trenchant discussion here and at the end of the day one of posters is quite correct, this forum is not for me. I related this fracas to one of my daughters who is gen Z and thus emerged from the womb clutching an iphone and is well versed in all things internetical. She immediately recognized it and said, this is one of the behaviors you see in a dying community, people form groups and exclude the outsiders. She gave me a couple if examples of internet groups where she’s seen this behavior. Food for thought and maybe a bit close to the bone.I wish everyone the best, peace.
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IMG_8515.jpeg
 
Nothing is perfect, but this is probably the best peer reviewed forum I've ever seen. If someone says something that's just plain wrong, they're going to get shredded for it. On the downside, if I say something just plain wrong, I'm going to get made fun of for it, too. But that's OK.

Even with the sarcasm, which I kinda find entertaining, and the rambling, which I sometimes do, there is a lot of content that is just people helping out others with problems. Mostly airplane stuff, but sometimes in other areas. The info on here is entertaining, and often will save people time, money, and I believe makes people better and safer pilots.

I don't want to be able to post anything that people can't comment on, because I don't think I can afford to be more sure of myself than I already am.
 
People asked for examples and solutions. For examples your can look at any of the (many) locked threads for the tone & content that people really do find offensive. I don't think they need to be repeated; most content people wouldn't repeat at the dinner table qualifies.

Shouting at a football stadium? Not even remotely close. "We've been the internet version of aviation's front porch for over ten years" that's not a football stadium. We're not talking about the comment section in an online newspaper. This is a moderated forum, not 4Chan. Civil and respectful forums exist and thrive in 2025. This could be one.

What can be done?

Temporarily suspend and then ban users. With most toxic communities a small percentage of users are responsible for most of the inappropriate behavior. I do not think this forum is any different.

"I was treated poorly so it should be fine for other people" is an excuse I wouldn't accept from an 11 year old.

As a final note, people come back because there is value here in spite of the bad faith actors, not because of them. I first came because I got much deeper understanding of mishaps - even if every fifth post was nasty, or threads regularly devolved into shouting matches. There really isn't a better place yet. Eventually the demographic balance will tip away from vitriol and we won't have to wade though this nonsense to talk about planes.
 
Hengelo said:
What can be done?

Temporarily suspend and then ban users. With most toxic communities a small percentage of users are responsible for most of the inappropriate behavior. I do not think this forum is any different.
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I don't think anyone disagrees with this. Except for the toxic users, of course. But nobody thinks they are that guy. Maybe I am that guy.

However, there needs to be balance. Heavy handed mods drive away just as many new users as under-moderation, IMO. I think our mods get it about right.

Go look at the thread the OP is upset about. It is titled REMOVED. He was so bothered by people discussing his post that he deleted it and changed the title to try to STOP the discussion. :rolleyes:

That thread was tame by any standard. There were no attacks and little sarcasm. Some people did not fully agree with him, and others wanted to make silly puns. But he thought that was HIS thread and he wanted to control the conversation. Doesn't work that way.

When you post something on a public forum like PoA, literally the whole WORLD can read and comment on it.
 
Here's the deal...right now about half the users complain about over-moderation, and half complain that there isn't enough. That's about as good as it gets. There are a few regular grumps, but as long as they don't violate the rules of conduct, we can't ban them for being grumpy. Sometimes they contribute useful comments. Sometimes we get people who refuse to follow the rules. There's a process. Sometimes new users get their hands smacked and learn where the line is. Sometimes they don't and they end up getting banned after several chances.

We can't ban people for one mean comment, because then there would be no one left. 75% of the posters on this page of this thread have warnings (including me). It would get real quiet around here, and we'd miss out on a lot of useful comments.

This place is a lot like a group of pilots sitting around a campfire. Someone brings up a topic, everyone discusses. Sometimes the conversation drifts. Sometimes the original idea gets made fun of. Sometimes someone says something just to get a laugh. Sometimes we make fun of each other. Sometimes people show up who you'd rather not be around. Sometimes, you get some new ideas you hadn't heard before, or you get your question answered, or you make a new friend.

I'm on a couple other aviation forums, and I think we have the best balance here of moderation and personalities, seriousness and fun. I don't think the OP is going to like ANY online forum if he is upset about this thread. And God forbid he go on Facebook or Reddit. Yikes.
 
Jim K said:
right now about half the users complain about over-moderation, and half complain that there isn't enough. That's about as good as it gets.
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Let me see if I can clarify that a bit for you, Jim.

My posts are over-moderated; other members' posts are under-moderated.

I appreciate your efforts as a moderator, and I hope that simple explanation will ease your job a bit.
 
Half Fast said:
Let me see if I can clarify that a bit for you, Jim.

My posts are over-moderated; other members' posts are under-moderated.

I appreciate your efforts as a moderator, and I hope that simple explanation will ease your job a bit.
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Proper moderation is critical to steady state forum function.
 
Hengelo said:
People asked for examples and solutions. For examples your can look at any of the (many) locked threads for the tone & content that people really do find offensive. ….
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What content people find offensive is irrelevant. The ROC governs what’s prohibited, and threads are locked, posts deleted, and/or banhammers dropped after a post/thread is reported and the MC (generally) dialogs on the report.

Personal attacks are prohibited. …
Trolling is prohibited. …
Pilots of America is an inclusive community. Exclusionary comments will not be tolerated This includes discrimination based on religion, race, sexual orientation, or gender.…
Political/Religious discussions are prohibited. …
Solicitations and Advertisements are prohibited, except when posted in The Classifieds section.…

www.pilotsofamerica.com

Rules of Conduct

www.pilotsofamerica.com www.pilotsofamerica.com

As for tone, the ROC says this:

It is not our goal to be the thought police. It is our goal to make this a welcome place for anybody that shares our passion for the skies.

Having pasted all that, all I can say is if a user finds something offensive, there’s always the report button.
 
TCABM said:
Personal attacks are prohibited. …
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This is the one where gray zone exists. There are some users who have found the fine line between disagreement and insult, and can't resist nudging it. Tone is awfully hard to police, though. The Ignore and Unwatch functions allow us all to personalize that.

On that note, I'm going to ignore someone again. Ahhh, better.
 
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Ed Haywood said:
This is the one where gray zone exists. There are some users who have found the fine line between disagreement and insult, and can't resist nudging it. Tone is awfully hard to police, though. The Ignore and Unwatch functions allow us all to personalize that.
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There's also those that think because you criticize/attack what they say that it's also personal attack. Not saying you are in that group, I've just seen it.
Person A says X
Person B says X is wrong/stupid (and even says why)
Person A whines "personal attack!"

Yeah, no, saying what you said is stupid is not the same as saying you are stupid. (The general you, not you personally)
 
Running or moderating a forum is a largely thankless, back breaking job. I appreciate the folks that run this one.

That written, “we’ve got it just right, there is nothing we could improve” rings hollow.

There is always room for improvement.
 
I've often said it......free beer from our moderators would certainly be an improvement. even just once a year. preferably when I'm not out of town.
 
Jim K said:
right now about half the users complain about over-moderation, and half complain that there isn't enough. That's about as good as it gets.
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I think it was Walter Cronkite who said that if you're being criticized by both sides, you're probably doing something right.
 
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