Stupid stuff Mechanics find.

Cap'n Jack said:
At least the fuel didn't have too much conductivity.
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Fuel has almost zero conductivity in the liquid state. As a matter of fact, it is a good enough insulator to use it with epsilon~2.0 as the dielectric in a capacitive probe for fuel quantity.

Jim
 
GlennAB1 said:
When I was in the Air Force, it was both, damage and debris. Loved Monday morning FOD walk.
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Yep I was in the control tower and watched the FOD walk everyday. ;):)
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I have a bunch of tools that were given to me by other mechanics. Some of them came from Cessna. I got a nice bucking bar from Cessna. They shipped it to me in the wing of a 206.
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Hey that just happened to me. My first annual on my 1957 182 was last June. The IA found a bucking bar in the right wing that appeared to have been in there a long time. Probably from the factory. He was amazed no other mechanic had spotted it. Fortunately, no damage occurred.
 
Clark1961 said:
So far it’s been mostly tools that techs have left for me. 1 cleco and one nice T-handle Allen wrench. Leaving thermocouple wires disconnected doesn’t really count does it?
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Not aviation, but I found a pair of slip joint pliers inside the driver's door on a 1954 Buick Special back in 1975/6. A bit rusty, but some quick work in the solvent tank and a wire brush and it was quite serviceable. It must have been left from the factory. It's still in my tool box.
 
weirdjim said:
Fuel has almost zero conductivity in the liquid state. As a matter of fact, it is a good enough insulator to use it with epsilon~2.0 as the dielectric in a capacitive probe for fuel quantity.

Jim
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Sorry, Jim- I should have provided this link: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/an-entire-countrys-avgas-supply-killed.108889/

Here's the context of that statement.
Clark1961 said:
From the article:
“ During the quality control process, it was discovered the conductivity level of the fuel did not meet specifications. ”

Of course conductivity can have several meanings and I am not familiar with the spec for avgas.
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Avgas has a lot of toluene in it and I was surprised at the amount of acetic acid (which is conductive) I was able to dissolve into toluene for an experiment a couple of years ago.
 
saddletramp said:
Hey that just happened to me. My first annual on my 1957 182 was last June. The IA found a bucking bar in the right wing that appeared to have been in there a long time. Probably from the factory. He was amazed no other mechanic had spotted it. Fortunately, no damage occurred.
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About 10 years ago I Found a 727 horizontal stab lower skin to be beat all to hell, from the inside. It was from a bucking bar left inside. The owner was identified, and it was returned to the vendor that performed the last C check, heavy maintenance visit.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I think I understand where you both see it differently. I personally know one person in the airlines who does a tool inventory before he considers his task complete. FOD is probably more of a military term?
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No, it's not. I've been in the military, too. Tom considers tools FOD. Tools are potential FOD. They may become FOD. But they aren't FOD just by being in your work area. FOD is items that are somewhere they don't belong.
 
mscard88 said:
In the Air Force I always heard it as damage. Debris makes more sense in the hope of finding it before it causes damage.
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The NAVY went with that idea a long time ago, The FOD program includes several parts, tool control is one, Finding and eliminating debris anywhere it can get into engines is another. This PROGRAM is huge, it includes every thing that will prevent ingestion of material that will cause engine failure.

I could rant on about the work station concept, but I won't... Simply because every one would critique it.

I'm gone thread creep has gone far enough.
 
GlennAB1 said:
No, it's not. I've been in the military, too. Tom considers tools FOD. Tools are potential FOD. They may become FOD. But they aren't FOD just by being in your work area. FOD is items that are somewhere they don't belong.
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NIT - PIC
 
after an early launch pad test of appallo killed 3 astronauts ,,,
a new term popped up,,
FOT,,, foreign, object, TOOL..
 
Air Force guy here - As others have said, FOD means two things depending upon context. If they do a FOD walk in the morning, they are looking for foreign objects and debris. After a mishap with a jet engine eating a socket it becomes Foreign Object Damage and yes, tools are considered foreign objects. I remember several occasions where we did not go home until someone found a missing tool. Most of the time it was in someone's pocket. Other times it was on the engine and at least one time it was never found.
 
GlennAB1 said:
If you were as experienced as you claim,
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I'm sorry To have to post stuff like this, .... but what the hell is that? do I really have to put up with **** like that?
 
Not Aviation (or a foreign object), but my dad went to replace the shocks on his 91 Silverado after it was a few years old and found that on the right front, there wasn’t one. Purchased the truck new from a dealer lot, apparently the suspension was assembled on a Friday afternoon...
 
GlennAB1 said:
Tools can be FOD, but, FOD is much more than just tools. If you were as experienced as you claim, you'd know that a FOD check includes looking for tools as well as debris left in the work area.
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For all who know me, know I was the supervisor of three 400 division work centers at Whidbey repair center, We did not have debris in our work spaces.
If Glen does, I think he has a problem.
I've been gone from the Repair center for over 10 years, But when I left you could eat off any work space in my division, floors included.
 
Tom-D said:
I'm sorry To have to post stuff like this, .... but what the hell is that? do I really have to put up with **** like that?
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I suggest you report to mods instead of acting out your teenage angst in public.
 
Tom-D said:
For all who know me, know I was the supervisor of three 400 division work centers at Whidbey repair center, We did not have debris in our work spaces.
If Glen does, I think he has a problem.
I've been gone from the Repair center for over 10 years, But when I left you could eat off any work space in my division, floors included.
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And those that know the military, know what enlisted "supervisors" do. Lotta coffee.
Your divisions must have not done much maintenance, because maintenance can generate a lot of debris.
 
d.grimm said:
We found a ballpein hammer in the wing/fuel tank on a Hawker. Boss was off that day so we took a wood burner and put his name on the handle. Next day when he saw it he was really mad.
Dave
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On first C inspection that required opening the fuel tanks on my old Falcon, Falcon Jet in LIT found a wrench. It had the mechanics initials on it and traced him down. Turned out he had retired so they shipped it to him in France. It had been the wing since new.
 
I've had numerous tools left in my planes over the years also.

I've always been amazed that the FAA doesn't require A&Ps to "shadowbox" or use some other tool accountability method.
 
timwinters said:
I've had numerous tools left in my planes over the years also.

I've always been amazed that the FAA doesn't require A&Ps to "shadowbox" or use some other tool accountability method.
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I’m amazed pilots aren’t required to shadowbox their flight bags.

:D
 
I guess maybe I can chime in because I'm the only one who ever does maintenance and repairs on my own plane. I didn't build it, so the first two condition inspections were fun. I found a nice mini Mag Lite when I removed the wing inspection cover to disconnect the stall warning vane and install the AoA port. It got two new batteries and now lives in the glove box. I found a socket and something else (don't remember what, but it was small - maybe an Allen wrench) rolling around under the right seat floor pan.

I do worry about leaving stuff in there when I'm working on it. I often wind up with half my tool box scattered all over the floor or behind the panel. It takes me half an hour of inspecting before I'm satisfied it's OK to put everything back together. Now that I have a good idea of which tools I need to have to maintain the airplane, I really should just build a dedicated toolbox for the hangar and shadowbox everything.
 
DaleB said:
I'm the only one who ever does maintenance and repairs on my own plane.
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nope.

Most of what I've found is trash. I did find one of my Swiss army knives and a couple pens that somehow got dropped in the cockpit and found their way aft behind the baggage area.
 
timwinters said:
I've had numerous tools left in my planes over the years also.

I've always been amazed that the FAA doesn't require A&Ps to "shadowbox" or use some other tool accountability method.
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Usually the monetary loss of buying a new tool is enough incentive

Would you like to have the FAA dictate what tools you must carry? that's probably what this would lead to. "never allow the camel get its nose under your tent".
 
Tom-D said:
Usually the monetary loss of buying a new tool is enough incentive.
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Safety of flight should be the only incentive required. Very often, I'm the last person in an area of an airliner in check. I always give a good once over before I'm done. I almost always find something to remove.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
nope.

Most of what I've found is trash. I did find one of my Swiss army knives and a couple pens that somehow got dropped in the cockpit and found their way aft behind the baggage area.
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Oh my.....the humanity. :eek:

I've yet to find any of my missing tools.....o_O
 
GlennAB1 said:
Safety of flight should be the only incentive required. Very often, I'm the last person in an area of an airliner in check. I always give a good once over before I'm done. I almost always find something to remove.
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Wow, that's a pretty poor culture of safety if you find something almost every time.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Waste of time. All that is necessary is a thurough FOD check at the completion of a job.
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GlennAB1 said:
No. A thorough FOD check should be accomplished before any close up.
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As a Maintenance Officer, unfortunately I know first-hand that this is insufficient. Example would be the audible “tink, tink, tink “ of a wrench falling down into the engine bay. A thorough FOD check post MX action probably wouldn’t identify this loose gear. Therefore, not only do we require a beginning and end of shift ATAF of our tool boxes with a work center supervisor, we also require a beginning and end of work (I.e. job) ATAF by the maintainer with a CDI AND a logging of which boxes were used on which aircraft. Obviously this crushes productivity, but it’s much faster than downing the fleet while every aircraft is inspected vs starting with the last aircraft the tool box was used on. We also do 2 FOD walks per day...
 
Can anyone confirm that a very well washed vacuum cleaner was found in a fuel tank of a Lockheed Electra during an engine mount rebuild?
 
AKBill said:
What squadron and what do they fly?
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Harriers. Common to all of them. In fact, I think those procedures are a CNAF requirement that would make it SOP for all of Naval Aviation, but would have to look at the pub to be sure.
 
Banjo33 said:
Harriers. Common to all of them. In fact, I think those procedures are a CNAF requirement that would make it SOP for all of Naval Aviation, but would have to look at the pub to be sure.
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It’s been a couple of years, but I do not recall two FOD walkdowns per day on any of the LHDs I was on as standard assuming the deck was in continuous operation through the day. If we did early morning ops and then shut down the deck for a couple hours, we’d do another full walk down when we remanned.
 
1981, first flight ops out of the yards, the Indy FODed 14 engines by flight deck nonskid peeling up from the cat tracks. during throttle up prior to launch.
 
Dave Theisen said:
Wow, that's a pretty poor culture of safety if you find something almost every time.
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May just be a screw, washer, safety wire, end of a cotterpin, plastic insulation retainer. There was a time I filled up a kitchen size trash bag from stuff left under the avionics racks in a 727. These aren't fighters, aerobatic, or the space shuttle, must be what some people think, not I, I come from an Air Force background. Ive worked for several airlines, its the same everywhere.
 
Fearless Tower said:
It’s been a couple of years, but I do not recall two FOD walkdowns per day on any of the LHDs I was on as standard assuming the deck was in continuous operation through the day. If we did early morning ops and then shut down the deck for a couple hours, we’d do another full walk down when we remanned.
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That very well could be the case and makes sense as FOD can migrate from other areas too (airfield vehicles, fuel trucks, tugs operating off the flightline, etc.) so wouldn’t be as necessary on a ship. For us, it was every shift change. Granted extra FOD walks could be directed via an LCP (local command procedure) directed at the squadron level or higher. Wouldn’t matter much to us as they are just as applicable as the CNAF instruction itself.
 
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