First of let me say that if I were to take a drug test, I'd pass with streaming color. It looks like my flight school is trying to implement drug screening not only for employees but also students. I get it for employees but isn't student drug screening a bit much? Any other pilots get drug tested while students and not employees? Am I over reacting or do you think students should be drug tested?
Student drug tests
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pigpenracing
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If you don't have a drug problem why do you care if they drug test or not?
ktup-flyer
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Definitely weird. Why don’t they just require a medical before students start?
Tarheelpilot
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AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
((channels the Church Lady)) Well isn’t that special? Most of us just pee in mono color...
And many of us have two little things known as feet that we can vote with if we don’t like something...
denverpilot
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Drug testing customers... there's a new one I've never heard of...
I assume they're expecting their revenue to drop to zero as people switch to their competitor just out of complete annoyance, correct? LOL...
Please tell me you didn't pre-pay them any money.
I assume they're expecting their revenue to drop to zero as people switch to their competitor just out of complete annoyance, correct? LOL...
Please tell me you didn't pre-pay them any money.
Larry in TN
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Sounds like an aviation university program?
Clark1961
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Do they provide study materials for the test?
Clark1961
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Really? Ever hear of false positives? Why even have any voluntary exposure to a system that has no possible benefit and only null or negative outcomes. It’s like a passing play in football, only three things can happen and two of them are bad.
Ravioli
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Is this one of those all in schools where you will be training up to ATP and doing some instruction for them along the way? If so, I can understand the requirement.
Otherwise, I'd tell them THEY were smoking something.
Otherwise, I'd tell them THEY were smoking something.
James331
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I'd take my business elsewhere.
It's a invasion, it's a insult because it basically is saying I don't believe you're drug free and you're lying, and it also hints that they believe many of their instructors are under the influence.
So yeah, I'd pull the ejection handle without a second thought.
If you have nothing to hide why would you have a problem with the police searching your home at random, or pulling you over for no reason to search you...maybe because some of us like freedom and liberty and don't want to feel like inmates in our country
It's a invasion, it's a insult because it basically is saying I don't believe you're drug free and you're lying, and it also hints that they believe many of their instructors are under the influence.
So yeah, I'd pull the ejection handle without a second thought.
If you have nothing to hide why would you have a problem with the police searching your home at random, or pulling you over for no reason to search you...maybe because some of us like freedom and liberty and don't want to feel like inmates in our country
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And a medical verifies no drug use how?
Well it's not for me or anyone else to tell you why you shouldn't want random police searches etc., but for what it's worth I think you have the wrong reasons. You should have a problem with these things because they actually put you in jeopardy, which is infinitely more important than how they make you feel.
Looking at the drug testing another way, instead of "we don't believe you", couldn't it just as easily be "we value your safety and the safety of our instructors too much to ask you to trust our judgment on the other students that train here". I can't see how there are any consequences other than having to find another flight school, so you're not saving yourself much trouble by looking for another one now.
James331
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Ofcourse it's safety, that's just implied, as anytime you give up your rights you're obviously less "safe" in the real world.
As far as make sure you're safe, just have it on the waiver "no drug use" but by testing people not only is it insulting and intrusive, but the only reason you'd need to is because you think your customers are lying and are drug users. Also if you're demographic is that prolific with drug users, again I don't want to even park my car in your lot.
Ether way, that's not a place I'd want to give my business, let alone trust their staff.
Unfortunately, its a program connected to degree program (using the G.I. Bill) so I have already paid through my instrument rating. I am definitely looking at other schools though. Its been terrible and really the biggest obstacle to my training has been the flight school. This drug test thing is just another step in direction of screwing over their students.
Half Fast
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I don't have a dead body in my car trunk, either, but I'm not going to let you search my car.
OP, I'd walk away. When you're shelling out the bucks it takes to get a pilot certificate, you have every right to expect to be treated like a valued customer. I'd have a hard time restraining myself from pizzing on their office desk.
I have been looking for a new school. My big issue is that Im using the GI Bill and a degree program is my best option. This is the only school in my area with a degree program. Luckily my wife is currently in salary negotiations for a job that will take me closer (2,500 miles from where we are currently) to a different school that has a degree program.
This is also just the most recent step in a pile of bullsh!t from the school.
Half Fast
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Community college but yes. Its the biggest bang for the GI Bill buck.
Half Fast
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And why do drug testing without at least doing a breathalyzer? Lots more people drinking than snorting.
This reeks. I'd venture a wild-assed-guess that they had some sort of incident with a student or employee being high and an insurance company forced this on them.
Larry in TN
En-Route
It's a university (community college) program, not a local flight school. They are training people for piloting careers where they will be subject to pre-employment, random, and post-incident drug and alcohol testing. They probably see it as a protecting the reputation of their program by weeding out any drug users and possibly a benefit in marketing as some parents may like the idea of their kids being tested to verify/encourage that they stay clean.
denverpilot
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As an aside, I love you people who want constant intrusive drug testing everywhere. You’re making one of the companies I work for, very rich. Growth industry with all the people willing to pee in cups for anything. All your willingness to pee in things all the time, is paying for my airplane. Hahaha. Keep peeing, serfs. We even sell the pee cups! Y’all are awesome.
My first thought was to pee all over the cup and make a mess but that would only effect the tech and janitor. Not the people that actually make the decisions.
James331
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You're 100% right!
And in many of those careers they'll also be paid over 6 figures and have insurance and benefits, so following your logic that flight school should pay me $120,000 a year to study with them and also provide me with insurance and a matching 401k.
And if your kids need a reason to "stay clean" you already failed as a parent.
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Larry in TN
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It's not my logic. I was speculating on their logic.
I haven't expressed any of my own opinions on the practice.
Since drug and alcohol testing is required in the industry for which their students are training, I'm not surprised to learn that collage aviation programs have incorporated it.
James331
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True, you didn't state your opinion, which I'm curious of.
I think it's a cultural erosion thing, seems like modern society wants a prison inmate lifestyle, they want others to have control, they want to submit, to random tests of their honor, to proving their loyalty like dogs, to letting others be responsible for their safety vs themselves, so peeing into little cups on demand and so on.
I mean let me put it this way, do you think these guys would come back home, spend their money on flight training and while working on learning how to fly, some manager asks one of them if he was on drugs, then said well prove it and go pee in a cup, write your name on the cup, and fetch it here.
Now how exactly do you think that conversation would go?
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Larry in TN
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Drug and alcohol testing is mandated by Federal law for airline pilots. Since the college programs are training people to enter that industry I don't find it surprising that some college programs would require testing for the reasons that I outlined above. No one should find it surprising that drug use occurs among college students.
My opinion on it? Mostly indifference. If you're going to be a professional pilot it's just a fact of life. If you don't like the requirement then find a different college program. There is no shortage of other options.
My opinion on it? Mostly indifference. If you're going to be a professional pilot it's just a fact of life. If you don't like the requirement then find a different college program. There is no shortage of other options.
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mscard88
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Always ticked me off as our drug screens were at the completion of say, a 3 or 4 day trip when you're trying to catch a flight home. Never understood the logic, seems it'd be better to test at the start of the trip. Part of the deal though.
As a controller in the Air Force we were tested quite often.
As a controller in the Air Force we were tested quite often.
Clark1961
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Do college aviation programs require collages?
Larry in TN
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We aren't limited to the end of a trip. They'll frequently get us at the end of a flight mid-trip. Always seems to be at an inconvenient time, though.
Ok then why not start drug testing people before they start collaging? Many people I know started wanting to fly at a very young age? Why not start drug testing them when they first look up to the sky and saying " I want to be up there"? Am I not cut out for an aviation career if I havent been wearing 4 bars since I could drive a car? Should we start doing genetic testing soon to determine whether peoples kids would be a good fit for airlines? Why not get the selection process underway before conception? Im starting to think 10 year background checks arent enough. When I start applying for regionals Ill be sure to include my great grandparent's records on down.
I got tested a few times in the AF as well and I would be fine with it if it were an employment condition. Id be fine to sign a document saying upon any accident or incident id submit to a drug screen but as a student random drug tests seem a bit much. Also part of it says that upon cause, they would be able to search our vehicles if on their property. Definitely exploring other options for school. Unfortunately awith the GI Bill, they prepaid for my training and its too late to withdraw without penalty.
denverpilot
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Seems rather stupid that anyplace charging four times as much as necessary to get an airline job, would annoy their golden calfs.
James331
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Airline pilots also stay in crash pads, have standby, deal with unions and so on, thing is this is pilot training, not make believe airlines.
Ravioli
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Clark beat me to it. The first collage had me thinking, okay, typo, but it was spelled the same way every time.
I started wondering if there were any flying decoupage programs out there.
Larry in TN
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You seem to be confusing me with someone who is an advocate for this plan. As I said above, I'm indifferent. If applicants don't like it they'll find another aviation program to attend. If they drive away too many prospective students they'll either change their policy or end their aviation programs.
Maybe you should tell that to this school instead of me. Touting an aviation program that mirrors airline training and operations seems to attract more applicants than it dissuades, though, so I'm not convinced this hurts their enrollment figures.
Larry in TN
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Maybe.
I'm pretty good with my you're/your, then/than, and to/too/two, though. Would you like me to start proofreading your posts for those common errors?
I'm always typing 'visibility' wrong, too, but spellcheck catches that mistake. I could use a good trick for remembering affect vs. effect, too, if you know one.