Starting off in a Cherokee 6

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Danny Dub

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Danny Dub
Due to the crazy trainer market, my friends are thinking of buying a Cherokee 6 to learn in and then obviously use after they get their ratings.

I know the obvious downside of more complexity and speed but what other issues are there. I personally think it is a fine idea and they understand that the training progression may be a little slower due to more airplane, but they really don't mind as it is all experience.

Has anyone here learned from the beginning on a big ol bird like a Cherokee 6?

Thanks as always for your thoughts on the situation!

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
I sort of did. Dad had his Turbo Lance when I was knocking out my PPL.

I enjoyed using it as a low-time PPL and simply see a Cherokee Six as a big Archer.

you need to learn to handle the prop and the little-bit larger/heavier airframe. Not a big deal from my perspective.

Carry on, bravely.
 
Keeping the nose wheel from bending is gonna be at the top of the list.....cause it will get beat on. Me.....I'd at least solo in a rental and buy this once you get ready for cross country training.

But....the $6,000 insurance quote should take care of it. lol ;)
 
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Danny Dub said:
I personally think it is a fine idea...
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Have you "personally" seen the mistakes students make while learning to fly? Don't let them beat up a nice plane like that six. Get 'em into something more forgiving, imo.
 
Like all of the above, I would not beat a nice plane during the training phase, rent a trainer!
 
It comes down to you will learn in what ever you will fly. 50-60 years ago cars were more difficult to drive, carburetors, manual trans, etc yet people still learned to drive in them. There isn't that much more complicated about a Cherokee 6. I would even say it's more difficult to break bad habits learned in trainers than to teach proper technique in higher performance aircraft. The challenges will be acquiring insurance, instructor, and paying for the gas bill. Last I checked the air force doesn't start you off in a Cessna 172 so it's not that difficult to master.
 
I did and it worked out fine in my PA-32-300. Some notes:
  • Insurance wasn't terrible. I think in 2019 it was around $4k per year for a 0 hour student pilot. No idea if that's possible now.
  • As someone else mentioned, finding an instructor might be difficult depending on where you are. I'm in a more rural area. I found a CFII who had a ton of PA-28 time but no PA-32 time. Insurance wanted him to have something like 5-10 hours transition training. So we paid for him to meet those requirements.
  • Training will probably take a little longer. I solo'ed at 30.7 hours. However, 10 of those hours were flying the plane back from halfway across the country with my CFII after we bought it. Took my checkride at 83.6 and passed.
  • The biggest challenge for me as a student pilot was dealing with the long nose which limited forward visibility on the landing flare. It took some time for me to get used to that. That combined with the heavier nose.
  • Be sure to have your CFI load it up to gross weight and practice landings. The CG limits are pretty wide and there's a noticeable difference when landing. If you haven't done it before, it might surprise you.
Happy to answer any questions you might have.
 
It’s certainly possible to get a Private license in a Cherokee 6.

I have at least 2 comparable situations that come to mind.

First was an attorney who had just bought a Cessna P210 and wanted to learn to fly it. I strongly encouraged him to learn in a rented 150 or 172 and then transition. Even allowing for transition time to the P210 after the license, I think he saved a lot of money, hours and wear and tear in the P210 doing it that way.*

Second was a fellow who was trying to learn in a purchased Cirrus SR 22 who was frustrated that he didn’t seem to be making progress with his instructor. I took him on, finished him up in reasonably short order, and we later did his instrument rating in the same plane.

My recommendation would be more like the first. Get the license in a smaller, simpler Cherokee, and then transition. Overall you’ll save money and not beat up the bigger plane. But the choice is up to you, and either way will work.


* Here’s that P210:

15157300128_387001336c.jpg


The owner let me borrow it for the price of gas. I heard it later crashed somewhere in Central America, involved somehow with drugs.
 
schmookeeg said:
Get an insurance quote first.
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I’d suggest finding a good instructor and building a training syllabus first if this is a real possibility. Going to the insurance folks with a solid plan of action appropriate to the airplane can make a big difference in rates and/or availability of insurance.
 
Might be a good idea to learn to land first in a smaller lighter plane.
 
Raptor008 said:
I did and it worked out fine in my PA-32-300. Some notes:
  • Be sure to have your CFI load it up to gross weight and practice landings. The CG limits are pretty wide and there's a noticeable difference when landing. If you haven't done it before, it might surprise you.
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AMEN to this! Also with the plane loaded up, do some short field landings with your CFI. The deck angle and power setting you need are very surprising to the newbie Six pilot. But it is a valuable corner of the flight envelope to feel comfortable in.

-Skip
 
MauleSkinner said:
I’d suggest finding a good instructor and building a training syllabus first if this is a real possibility. Going to the insurance folks with a solid plan of action appropriate to the airplane can make a big difference in rates and/or availability of insurance.
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I'd love to understand this more. Are you saying "3 dudes and a Cherokee Six" will pay more for insurance than "3 dudes, a Cherokee Six, and an instructor's plan" ?? When I've added zero-ME-time dudes to my twin, I was never asked for my instructional plan. Maybe from-zero-time-at-all is different?
 
Danny Dub said:
I know the obvious downside of more complexity and speed
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I have met, literally, hundreds of pilots who got their start in an airplane that was twice as fast, twice as heavy, and more complex than a Cherokee 6. Totally doable. In fact, starting off complex might yield a better pilot because you get to skip the bad habits phase that "trainers" allow you to get away with.
 
Thanks guys for the comments. I think none of your are wrong. The insurance guy acted like I was inquiring about having them solo in the space shuttle! But he is working up a quote.

I am a CFI (good one? well who knows) and I understand the challenges for a new pilot in a HP airplane, but I do not think they are insurmountable. It is never a bad idea to get that first dozen or so hours in someone else's beater, but I really hope this will work.

The market for typical trainers is a bit on the rediculous side and for just a touch more, they have the chance to buy an airplane that will be something they can use for a nice long time.

There are just a lot of moving elements and I appreciate the insite from others who have either done this or been an instructor in this situation.

Thanks a bunch!

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
Does the T-35 Pillán count as a Cherokee 6?
 
schmookeeg said:
I'd love to understand this more. Are you saying "3 dudes and a Cherokee Six" will pay more for insurance than "3 dudes, a Cherokee Six, and an instructor's plan" ?? When I've added zero-ME-time dudes to my twin, I was never asked for my instructional plan. Maybe from-zero-time-at-all is different?
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Very possible that it might be the difference between getting insurance and not getting insurance, or it might mean nothing at all. As you suggested, this is more about primary training than additional ratings/certificates.
 
I helped a couple of guys earn their private certificates in a Cherokee Six. I also helped a guy learn to fly in an A36 Bonanza. Neither of the Cherokee 6 students were exceptional; if they could learn to fly in the six then I’d expect most students could figure it out with a little extra work over what it would take in a typical trainer.

Insurance will likely be the biggest problem. Back when I helped my students with this an insurance policy was relatively easy to get and not too cost prohibitive. Times have changed however, and policies are probably still available but they will likely have a handsome price tag attached to them.
 
You know what, if you're itching to learn in what you own, and you're doing private pilot, I'd go the complete other way. Buy a light sport, conventional gear. You might have a bit of trouble getting an instructor who will do primary training in a tailwheel, but it could work. You'd learn a lot more, in my view, from doing your primary in a champ or a cub than a cherokee 6...and it'll be cheaper. When you're done with the plane, you can sell it if you want to...but I'd bet one of the three will want to keep it.
 
I have successfully trained pilots through their PPL in a few 182’s, a Cherokee 235, and a Bellanca Cruise master. The poster that said it took him about 83hrs sounded like it would be about typical to me in a Cherokee 6. I started a guy in a 206, he was doing fine but then stopped and didn’t tell me why, I suspect medical or Legal issues.
My main concerns with teaching someone in a Cherokee 6 would be fuel management, Engine Managment, emergency procedures, and Weight and Balance issues (plane flys different when loaded). These would get more emphasis than if flying a 172.

Brian
 
I began my training in 172s, but not long before I was ready to solo, I knew I was committed to getting my license and purchased my own 182. There is no question that switching to that plane slowed down my training, since I had to build enough hours in the new plane before I could solo in the 182 (both for my insurance company and also my CFI's willingness to endorse me) -- however, I also finished all my training in the plane I am still flying to this day, which I think was invaluable. As an added kicker, once I was endorsed to solo in my 182, it was an absolute joy to be able to head to the airport and fly whenever I wanted to, without having to schedule a plane through my flight school. I've only flown in a Cherokee 6 as a passenger, so I can't comment on how different it is than a 172 or 182, but it seems like a manageable plane to learn in if you know you're committed to flying that same model plane once you get your license.
 
I had an opportunity to join a 4 way partnership on a Cherokee 6 early in my primary training for a really reasonable price.

I really regret that I didn't buy that share and do that. It would have been cheaper than training in the 172 and I'd own 1/4 of a plane that actually would fit my missions. I love the club I'm in, but that really would have been a practical way to do it.

You also might find that you get through training faster not juggling scheduling. I know that my primary training took months longer due to how hard it was to schedule plane+instructor+weather. with the partnership, the plane was almost always available and the other partners would have had no problem with me sneaking a training flight in during their "week" with the plane, except for the rare times they were taking family trips in it.
 
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