Starter repair estimate

RussR

RussR

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Russ
After my starter failing away from home, and having to hand prop the Cherokee three times on Saturday, I decided I might not want to keep doing that for long.

My mechanic took it off and took it to a local engine shop.

The diagnosis is that the Bendix failed (but we kind of figured that) and the estimate to repair it is $298.

Is this reasonable? Seems like a lot more than I was hoping to spend, but hey, it's aviation. It also seems almost as much as buying a new one, but there are so many different types and price ranges (Sky-Tec, etc.) it's hard to tell.

It's an MZ4204R, if anybody's knowledgeable, and has 6 years and about 420 hours on it (I guess that's not really pertinent for starters, though). The engine is an O-320-E3D.

Any suggestions?

Russ
 
get the sky-tec it's a great performer and completely reliable
 
I put a Sky-Tec on my Tampico. O-320-D2A
New starter $305 (Sky Tec 149-24LS)
Removed a Prestolite boat anchor.
Prestolite Starter, MHB-4016, 17.99 pounds
Sky Tec Starter, 149-24LS, 8.25 pounds
 
The repair estimate is appropriate. However, in the long run, I think you'll be happier if you replace it with a new Sky-Tec even if that will cost about $600 installed.
 
RussR said:
After my starter failing away from home, and having to hand prop the Cherokee three times on Saturday, I decided I might not want to keep doing that for long.

My mechanic took it off and took it to a local engine shop.

The diagnosis is that the Bendix failed (but we kind of figured that) and the estimate to repair it is $298.

Is this reasonable? Seems like a lot more than I was hoping to spend, but hey, it's aviation. It also seems almost as much as buying a new one, but there are so many different types and price ranges (Sky-Tec, etc.) it's hard to tell.

It's an MZ4204R, if anybody's knowledgeable, and has 6 years and about 420 hours on it (I guess that's not really pertinent for starters, though). The engine is an O-320-E3D.

Any suggestions?

Russ
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A new Bendix is $95 from Aircraft Spruce, and is easy to replace.

If the problem(s) run deeper than that, it is probably time to invest in a Sky-Tec high torque inline model which will cost you $431 from Spruce.

I made the switch a year or two ago and have been very pleased.
 
kyleb said:
A new Bendix is $95 from Aircraft Spruce, and is easy to replace.
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The fact that you can buy one from Spruce for $95 list price doesn't mean that's all you should expect to pay a shop to replace the one in your plane. Figure the standard parts markup to cover overhead for ordering and handling the part plus shipping cost and the cost of removing the old part and reinstalling the new one, and I think $298 is not an unreasonable price for the job.
 
Is the repair to the starter $298, or the whole job? Because the Bendix job on the starter can be done for $50 at the Autoelectric shop if YOU as the owner take it there. It is a generic part that was $15 last time I bought one. If that is the installed, out the door price to get you flying, it is appropriate.
 
The $298 is for the repair of the starter itself. Since my mechanic took it to another shop, it does not include his time to take it off and put it back on (and de-cowl/re-cowl etc.). However, that cost would be the same regardless of the option chosen at this point.

Do the Sky-tec starters require any more work during reinstallation than putting the original one back on (plus some paperwork)?
 
RussR said:
The $298 is for the repair of the starter itself. Since my mechanic took it to another shop, it does not include his time to take it off and put it back on (and de-cowl/re-cowl etc.). However, that cost would be the same regardless of the option chosen at this point.
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$300 should get you a complete overhaul of the starter, not just a repaired bendix which should run about a third of that.

Do the Sky-tec starters require any more work during reinstallation than putting the original one back on (plus some paperwork)?
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No more physical work -- it's a plug-out/plug-in job. And IIRC, on your Lycoming engine, it's considered a PMA'd replacement so there's no STC's or 337's involved, either -- just a log entry.
 
RussR said:
The $298 is for the repair of the starter itself. Since my mechanic took it to another shop, it does not include his time to take it off and put it back on (and de-cowl/re-cowl etc.). However, that cost would be the same regardless of the option chosen at this point.

Do the Sky-tec starters require any more work during reinstallation than putting the original one back on (plus some paperwork)?
Click to expand...

The only additional work is that the starter cable will need to be "stretched". Sky-tec sells a $14 (or thereabouts) starter cable extension or you can have a new wire fabricated (or DIY). Depending on the cable length, the parts for the DIY approach could be as low as $10 or so for the two ends, two boots, and a length of #2 or #4 wire.
 
RussR said:
The $298 is for the repair of the starter itself. Since my mechanic took it to another shop, it does not include his time to take it off and put it back on (and de-cowl/re-cowl etc.). However, that cost would be the same regardless of the option chosen at this point.

Do the Sky-tec starters require any more work during reinstallation than putting the original one back on (plus some paperwork)?
Click to expand...

No, and if the starter repair is at $298, you can reduce that by picking it up unrepaired and taking it to your local auto electric shop for a $50 repair and handing it back to your mechanic. Or, you can bite the bullet now and spend some extra and get the Sky-TEC which is easier to install to replace that boat anchor POS Prestolite starter which will need repair again. I don't consider the $298 repair a viable option. If it was mine and I wasn't tight for cash, I would buy the Sky-tec, it's a good value and a worthwhile upgrade making starting easier. If rent was due and I was tight, I'd just buy the Bendix and fix it myself.
 
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Henning said:
No, and if the starter repair is at $298, you can reduce that by picking it up unrepaired and taking it to your local auto electric shop for a $50 repair and handing it back to your mechanic.
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But please tell them it's an aircraft starter, just for the look on their faces.

Being told to get the hell out is priceless. :)
 
Ron Levy said:
The fact that you can buy one from Spruce for $95 list price doesn't mean that's all you should expect to pay a shop to replace the one in your plane. Figure the standard parts markup to cover overhead for ordering and handling the part plus shipping cost and the cost of removing the old part and reinstalling the new one, and I think $298 is not an unreasonable price for the job.
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How do you know it is a "shop" might be the local tailgater

If he buys the starter, does the job them selves, I'll inspect and sign the log for 50 bucks.

Your local A&P is always cheaper.
 
Tom-D said:
How do you know it is a "shop" might be the local tailgater

If he buys the starter, does the job them selves, I'll inspect and sign the log for 50 bucks.

Your local A&P is always cheaper.
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In Wichita Falls there was an auto electric shop right by Kickapoo Airport, he did all the airplane stuff, no worries.
 
Henning said:
In Wichita Falls there was an auto electric shop right by Kickapoo Airport, he did all the airplane stuff, no worries.
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There's always one right?
 
Henning said:
No, and if the starter repair is at $298, you can reduce that by picking it up unrepaired and taking it to your local auto electric shop for a $50 repair and handing it back to your mechanic.
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...and lie about it in the aircraft maintenance records (assuming your mechanic will go along with it and install an untraceably repaired part in your plane). Or you can do it legally and have it done by a shop with FAA authorization to repair that component and put the Form 8130-3 in your records.
Or, you can bite the bullet now and spend some extra and get the Sky-TEC which is easier to install to replace that boat anchor POS Prestolite starter which will need repair again.
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On that Henning and I agree.
 
Go with the Sky-tech starter ,just for the reliability factor.
 
Tom-D said:
But please tell them it's an aircraft starter, just for the look on their faces.

Being told to get the hell out is priceless. :)
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I did just yesterday when I had them check out my failed alternator. Our guy doesn't care what it came off.
 
Ron Levy said:
IIRC, your aircraft does not have a Standard Airworthiness Certificate, in which case the rules are different.
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Ron, trust me. There are plenty of starters and alternators that he has repaired from many certified aircraft. I don't know first hand if he knows, but when he sends a bill to A&P Aviation I would think he would get the hint. ;)
 
Henning said:
In Wichita Falls there was an auto electric shop right by Kickapoo Airport, he did all the airplane stuff, no worries.
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If asked.. I just say....

It is an "off road application".....:yes:.....:D
 
Another vote for SkyTec.
 
$300 for just the bendix repl is 'go away' price. They don't want to repair it. Either have your A&P do the swap, or go with Sky-Tec. Considering the starter is ~40 years old, and heavy I know what I would.
 
Geico266 said:
Ron, trust me. There are plenty of starters and alternators that he has repaired from many certified aircraft. I don't know first hand if he knows, but when he sends a bill to A&P Aviation I would think he would get the hint. ;)
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It's not his responsibility to know what Part 43 requires, so that's irrelevant. The responsibility for this lies with the mechanic signing the work or the pilot in command who flies the plane.
 
Ron Levy said:
It's not his responsibility to know what Part 43 requires, so that's irrelevant. The responsibility for this lies with the mechanic signing the work or the pilot in command who flies the plane.
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I bring the part to the mechanic, he installs it, no worries, totally legit.
 
N801BH said:
Who writes up the yellow tag>?????:dunno:
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Henning. :rofl:

And yes, I know that "yellow tags" aren't really yellow or actual tags any more.

FAA-Form-8130-3.gif
 
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Not all parts require yellow tags, including on certified aircraft.
 
N801BH said:
Does a yellow tag authorize a "return to service" on a CERTIFIED aircraft???:dunno:
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No, it identifies a part as it moves from plane to plane as one that is available to return to service. When you pull a component off an aircraft, repair it, and return it to service on that same aircraft, there is no yellow tag required, just a log book entry. Any mechanic can change a Bendix on a starter.
 
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Henning said:
No, it identifies a part as it moves from plane to plane as one that is available to return to service. When you pull a component off an aircraft, repair it, and return it to service on that same aircraft, there is no yellow tag required, just a log book entry. Any mechanic can change a Bendix on a starter.
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Define Mechanic....:dunno::dunno::dunno:
 
Henning said:
No, it identifies a part as it moves from plane to plane as one that is available to return to service. When you pull a component off an aircraft, repair it, and return it to service on that same aircraft, there is no yellow tag required, just a log book entry. Any mechanic can change a Bendix on a starter.
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To be a little more specific ... ANYBODY can change a Bendix on a starter. Any powerplant mechanic (the P of A&P) can sign the logbook approving return to service on an aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate.

Elaborating ... suppose the P takes the starter off, puts it on the workbench, and tells the high school automotive whiz he has hired to do simple repairs like this to change the Bendix. The P inspects the work, has the kid reinstall the starter, inspects the installation, and signs the logbook. Perfectly and absolutely legal and is done quite regularly in nearly any small town repair facility

Tell me the difference, please, between giving it to the kid to repair and giving it to the local automotive electrical shop?

Jim
The kid that did this for three years before landing the job with the major airlines doing the same thing for another three years as a college weekend job.
 
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Ron Levy said:
Henning. :rofl:

And yes, I know that "yellow tags" aren't really yellow or actual tags any more.

FAA-Form-8130-3.gif
Click to expand...

Yellow tags are still used every day. They are still tags, or can be printed on anything really. I find them next to the green and red rags.
 
weirdjim said:
Tell me the difference, please, between giving it to the kid to repair and giving it to the local automotive electrical shop?
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The Kid does not have the deep pockets that attract lawyers.
 
Tom-D said:
The Kid does not have the deep pockets that attract lawyers.
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Agreed. :yes:

I should have been more specific. What is the FAR LEGAL difference between giving it to the kid and giving it to the local automotive shop when the inspections/installation are done as I described?

Jim
 
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