Starter repair estimate

[Tom-D]

Agreed.

I should have been more specific. What is the FAR LEGAL difference between giving it to the kid and giving it to the local automotive shop when the inspections/installation are done as I described?

Jim

Who can sign it off. and the reference to how it was done.
Is the auto shop going to give you a description on how it was repaired, If not, the return to service person must make the decision if it was proper and legal. to do that, they must determine where the parts were bought, and if they were installed properly and take the liability for it.

 

[Tom-D]

For those who would use an auto repair shop to repair appliances, How would you comply with this?

43.3 Persons authorized to perform maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alterations.
(a) Except as provided in this section and §43.17, no person may maintain, rebuild, alter, or perform preventive maintenance on an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part to which this part applies. Those items, the performance of which is a major alteration, a major repair, or preventive maintenance, are listed in appendix A.

(b) The holder of a mechanic certificate may perform maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alterations as provided in Part 65 of this chapter.

(c) The holder of a repairman certificate may perform maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alterations as provided in part 65 of this chapter.

(d) A person working under the supervision of a holder of a mechanic or repairman certificate may perform the maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alterations that his supervisor is authorized to perform, if the supervisor personally observes the work being done to the extent necessary to ensure that it is being done properly and if the supervisor is readily available, in person, for consultation. However, this paragraph does not authorize the performance of any inspection required by Part 91 or Part 125 of this chapter or any inspection performed after a major repair or alteration.

If you are going with the supervision part of this FAR, the A&P better be involved with the repair.

 

[Henning]

Who can sign it off. and the reference to how it was done.
Is the auto shop going to give you a description on how it was repaired, If not, the return to service person must make the decision if it was proper and legal. to do that, they must determine where the parts were bought, and if they were installed properly and take the liability for it.

Are you responsible for maintaining records of the provenance of the parts on a Pt 91 Aircraft? To the best of my knowledge under Owner Produced Parts rules that liability is on the owner. If you can find case law or anything to the contrary, I'd like to read it.

 

[Tom-D]

Are you responsible for maintaining records of the provenance of the parts on a Pt 91 Aircraft? To the best of my knowledge under Owner Produced Parts rules that liability is on the owner. If you can find case law or anything to the contrary, I'd like to read it.

Then you should read this,
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC 21-29C CHG 2.pdf


and ask yourself who's ticket is at stake?

When you ask me to approve the repair you best be able to show me that the parts are in compliance with Part 21, owner produced or not.

 

[weirdjim]

For those who would use an auto repair shop to repair appliances, How would you comply with this?

(d) A person working under the supervision of a holder of a mechanic or repairman certificate may perform the maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alterations that his supervisor is authorized to perform, if the supervisor personally observes the work being done to the extent necessary to ensure that it is being done properly and if the supervisor is readily available, in person, for consultation.

Real simple. The first time I sent them a (use a part here) for repair, I was with them from the getgo and watched them do it. From then on I stopped around every now and again to watch. FInally I said that they knew it cold and inspected it when it got to me fixed. "To the extent necessary" is a weaselword that the Feds inserted to let me watch from the comfort of my easy chair if I wish.

Of course my ticket is on the line. So is your ticket. These ain't Boeings that are going to crash and burn killing hundreds of innocent children on the playground. These are bonehead simple electrical repairs that the worst that can happen is that a generator fail in flight or the starter refuse to turn the engine over.

Risk is a calculated thing. What is the problem here?

Jim

 

[kyleb]

What is the problem here?

Jim

Pedantry?

 

[Tom-D]

Pedantry?

To some, self-preservation to others.

 

[Tom-D]

Risk is a calculated thing. What is the problem here?

Jim

the problem isn't the emending accident, or the lack of it.

It's the owner telling how cheap he got the starter repaired. Some one calls FSDO to see if that is legal, and the emending investigation places you under the microscope.

 

[Richard]

Real simple. The first time I sent them a (use a part here) for repair, I was with them from the getgo and watched them do it. From then on I stopped around every now and again to watch. FInally I said that they knew it cold and inspected it when it got to me fixed. "To the extent necessary" is a weaselword that the Feds inserted to let me watch from the comfort of my easy chair if I wish.

Of course my ticket is on the line. So is your ticket. These ain't Boeings that are going to crash and burn killing hundreds of innocent children on the playground. These are bonehead simple electrical repairs that the worst that can happen is that a generator fail in flight or the starter refuse to turn the engine over.

Risk is a calculated thing. What is the problem here?


Jim

If it were as you allude then bailing wire and Juicy Fruit would be all that is needed. But it isn't that. Instead it is the regulatory arm of an enforcement agency (or, the enforcement arm of a regulatory agency) which must be satisfied. And that satisfaction comes through copious amounts of paperwork and smooth talking the inspectors. And that comes by the holder of the Ticket On The Line taking an active part. Granted, the regs may allow for you in your La-Z-Boy to provide 'supervision'.

Every annual on my various aircraft has been 'owner-assisted'. Sometimes, most times, that was me doing the work and him sitting in the corner sipping his rank day old coffee. But he kept a keen eye which gotten of experience kept me on the right path, if even to provide the insipid comment here or there. But I trusted him and he felt comfortable enough in my abilities to not jeopardize his credentials

The 'problem' is the regs are written in a manner (in spite of legions of regulatory wordsmiths, aka, attorneys) which allow for varying means to accomplish the same.

I don't know you but I have met Tom...face to face. I have seen the work he does and I have spoken with him at length. On that basis I would have zero problem going to Tom to build/restore/maintain my aircraft. Perhaps I would feel the same of others 'cept I haven't met those others. This isn't simply pedantic BS.

Myself, I'm no sizzle in the pan. I was bucking rivets before airplanes, I had worked in fine fitting sheet metal and cloth and wood on boats and cars well before I got into aviation. I've staked my livelihood on the same for a large number of years.