SR22T down outside Raleigh

Would the “Straight and Level” button simply not fly straight and level without any autopilot adjustments for wind? That might explain the slight left right track. Just spitballing. I have never really used it other than to make sure it works. But I’m assuming it would fly straight and level til it ran out of fuel. Maybe someone was told if ever I’m out hit that button. But I would also hope they would slow down and pull the chute…this is a real head scratcher.
 
midwestpa24 said:
The oddity is why they lost ADS-B early in the flight, and how they maintained (if it is not a tracking quirk) 11,700 so precisely, but the aircraft seemed to have slow oscillations left and right.
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Mode C only reports in 100' increments, right?
 
TRC1969 said:
Would the “Straight and Level” button simply not fly straight and level without any autopilot adjustments for wind? That might explain the slight left right track. Just spitballing. I have never really used it other than to make sure it works. But I’m assuming it would fly straight and level til it ran out of fuel. Maybe someone was told if ever I’m out hit that button. But I would also hope they would slow down and pull the chute…this is a real head scratcher.
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Straight and level holds the wings level and pitch neutral per the ADAHRS (Air Data Attitude Heading Reference System). It will not guarantee a heading/track nor a set altitude. The yaw damper will be active.
 
midwestpa24 said:
The oddity is why they lost ADS-B early in the flight, and how they maintained (if it is not a tracking quirk) 11,700 so precisely, but the aircraft seemed to have slow oscillations left and right. I suppose you could have altitude hold engaged without steering, but why?
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The Altitude is controlled by the ADAHRS the heading is controlled by either HDG or NAV mode. If you are in NAV mode and lose GPS the autopilot drops back in to ROL (Roll Mode) and keep the wings level. Altitude mode is not affected and will be held. Loss of GPS will also inhibit ADSB. WAAS GPS is part of the ADSB spec. If the GPS signal degrades ADSB out doesn’t transmit (at least the way I read it) Mode C will still function.

The AutoPilot will also drop out of HDG or NAV mode to ROL mode if the fuel imbalance exceeds 13 gallons or the aileron trim is far enough off that the servos cannot overcome the imbalance. I think ROL mode gives up at some point and the AP will kick off all together. The autopilot will operate in Rol and Altitude mode although ROL/PIT (roll and pitch mode) are more commonly paired.
 
Would the straight and level button explain the left and right movement of the track. Wouldn’t It simply try to fly straight and not stay on any type of heading? I have never really used it other than to make sure it works.
 
and wow it took 2 hours for your response about straight and level to show up. I wouldn’t have asked the same question again..
 

TRC1969 said:
and wow it took 2 hours for your response about straight and level to show up. I wouldn’t have asked the same question again..
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I don’t post much. Maybe I’m still in some post delay/review. I’m also not a CFI or expert so my posts/opinions should be viewed with a bit of skepticism.
 
Kelvin said:
Local news is reporting the pilot reported both navigation and engine issues....FWIW.
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I'm gonna be sick if the magic smoke left the panel and he ran it out of fuel trying to get the family home on that long of a cross country.
 
Racerx said:
I'm gonna be sick if the magic smoke left the panel and he ran it out of fuel trying to get the family home on that long of a cross country.
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The flight was 2.5 hrs till the crash. I doubt he ran out of fuel. even if he did, why would he not have deployed the chute? this is a weird one.
 
All souls on board had to be incapacitated. There is no way an experienced pilot could make that many errors. There is also no way a person in the copilot's seat would let the thing nose dive into the ground. They may pull the chute at 190 KTS but they would have pulled it.
 
One would think you would err on the side of caution. Especially with your family on board. It is a mystery.
 
Rule out incapacition. Somehow they were in contact with the fbo

 
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GLMS_NC said:
We know a little more.

www.wral.com

Deadly Sanford plane crash: NTSB says pilot reported engine issues, communication loss

The pilot of a plane that crashed Monday in Sanford reported engine trouble along with a loss of communication and navigation equipment, according to the National Transportation Safety Board. A family of four people died in the plane crash.
www.wral.com www.wral.com

Still - why didn't he pull the chute?
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Field under him and didn't want to write it off? Perhaps he was unaware how the system works and thought he needed electric to fire it?
 
Wow. Pull the chute! That is so sad and I want to say preventable, but I wasn’t there. I’m sure the man made the decision he felt was the correct one.
 
If he has Cirrus Embark he would know the pin coming out fires the rocket. It’s a mechanical system at that point.
 
This one bothers me. I have thinking about it all day.
 
But it does explain holding on to all that altitude.
 
I wonder if there was a failure in the altitude reporting system, and altitude was varying throughout the flight. The plane may have made a normal descent without reporting a change.

The radio conversation with the destination airport may have been when the pilot first realized that he had serious electronic problems, and they were soon followed by engine control problems.

How much electric/electronic control is there in the engine controls of an SR 22?
 
I don’t know the answer to this, but initially the CAPS system rocket ignition was mechanical. A while back they went to electrically fired chute. By now I think all the the repacks have converted the entire fleet to the electronically ignited solid fuel rocket. I do know there is a connector to the Chute that is separated and the appropriate voltage on each of the connectors pins is verified every annual inspection. What I do not know and have not been able to verify is if that connector is left disconnected would the pilot have any indication? I fear that it would go undetected. It is not (to my knowledge) a pre-flight detectable item. The electronic ignition is not reliant on the aircraft’s electric busses.

Very sad. It seems everyone was conscious. Just horrible.
 
geezer said:
I wonder if there was a failure in the altitude reporting system, and altitude was varying throughout the flight. The plane may have made a normal descent without reporting a change.

The radio conversation with the destination airport may have been when the pilot first realized that he had serious electronic problems, and they were soon followed by engine control problems.

How much electric/electronic control is there in the engine controls of an SR 22?
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The adsb going out in Daytona tells me he carried on NORDO the rest of the trip. Lack of autopilot as well, which alone isn't an issue. But it's telling the failure happened pretty early on.
 
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This video confirms by ATC comms he was having radio issues, starting early in the flight. The destination FBO mentions they were in touch with someone (the pilot or ATC via phone?) and mentions an alternator failure. So, running on battery power for part or most of the flight or some other electrical issue?

 
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I left my plane at KSHV last week after diverting for an alternator out condition 45 minutes from my destination and 55 minutes from my home base. Once I confirmed the issue could not be resolved from the air I immediately called for a diversion. VMC all the way but I have no desire to turn an urgency into an emergency. I had an urge to turn back to home for convenience but, fortunately, I was able to quell it quickly. It sucked from a logistics standpoint but safety first, safety last, safety always.
 
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The pattern at TTA was extremely busy. Planes were having enough trouble getting spacing with functional radios. But still, the field was wildly VMC and the plane had 11,000’ of altitude, engine problems or not.
 
Racerx said:
The adsb going out in Daytona tells me he carried on NORDO the rest of the trip. Lack of of autopilot as well.
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I agree with Racerx. Why???? So many other options (as far as we know).
 
If the pilot was reducing electrical load from early on in the flight, some possibilities:

-- without the LOP cyan stripe on the fuel flow bar, the pilot may have been running ROP (e.g. not being comfortable with the old-school leaning to roughness, then a slight enrichening to smoothness)... the pilot may also have not been getting Switch Tank messages and lost track of fuel management.

-- of course, landing first possible airport would have been, admittedly in hindsight, prudent... thereby avoiding 2.5 hours in the air with an electrical problem.

-- once battery power got low enough (or for reducing electrical load), the "reversionary mode" may have triggered and caused the MFD (and the full engine display) to morph into a PFD with significantly reduced engine and fuel management data.
 
This is just terrible.
Do you suppose he stalled and spun it because he got too distracted?
 
midlifeflyer said:
That’s standard at TTA but it’s hard imagine a realistic situation where that would make a difference even with wild speculation.
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Nothing speculative regarding causation at all, it’s just something that struck me in the bigger picture of ADM.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Suddenly feeling reassured that I kept my mechanical analog gauges.
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Being that my above mentioned flight was the first XC after installation of the Garmin EIS, I was also questioning my decision after my PFD/MFD's went dark. ;) Fortunately, transition to the back-up GI275's was natural as I had these installed as ADI/HSI in my previous plane. Like the 80's song..."Things that make you go Hmmm".
 
Flying Keys said:
As a thought exercise - you’re 11nm from the field at over 11,000’ above the airport elevation. Lack of chute-pull SOP aside, how would someone end up 4 miles short of the field from that point, even if the engine was no longer working?

A quick check makes it sound like an 8:1 glide ratio in the SR22T - that should have theoretically gotten him halfway to RDU from that altitude, again chute (or lack thereof) notwithstanding. Winds aloft were out of the west at 10-15kts at 12,000, backing slightly to west-southwest and lighter toward the ground.
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I believe it's closer to 10:1 on the SR (a Skyhawk is ~8) but in any case, this a curious one.
 
ahmad said:
This is just terrible.
Do you suppose he stalled and spun it because he got too distracted?
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I’m wondering if there was a power reduction/loss while altitude-hold was still engaged, thus causing the plane to pull itself into a stall. If the plane stalled and spun, the victims may have been too distracted, panicked, or physically unable to pull the chute.
 
If electric trim were inoperable for any reason, what are the reversionary modes?
 
Half Fast said:
I’m wondering if there was a power reduction/loss while altitude-hold was still engaged, thus causing the plane to pull itself into a stall. If the plane stalled and spun, the victims may have been too distracted, panicked, or physically unable to pull the chute.
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I was thinking same thing. Do autopilots not have a shutoff for approaching stall?
It would take some serious talent to spin in from 11,000 feet without finding a way to accidentally recover. Most aircraft will eventually recover on their own if controls are relaxed from pro-spin inputs. Spins are mostly a low altitude hazard.
Spin recovery can result in a very steep dive, almost straight down. If grossly over controlled, a ham-handed pullout could result in structural failure. If that were the case, it will be apparent from the wreckage.
Even if not the cause, definitely a good argument for getting some UPRT. Or flying in your buddy's Decathlon once in a while.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Is it possible to pull and not deploy?
I can't fathom any other scenario that makes any sense.
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I recall at least one such case. CAPS was pulled and somehow trailed uselessly behind the plane, which landed successfully anyway. I’ll see if I can dig it up.

Edited to add:

avweb.com

First Engine, Then Parachute Failed In Cirrus Incident

A Cirrus SR22 pilot's really bad day ended with a relatively safe emergency landing on a dirt road after first the engine, then the emergency parachute failed
avweb.com avweb.com

Pretty sure there’s at least one more, but they are exceedingly rare.
 
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