Sport Pilot License

SkyDog58 said:
And as long as the aircraft is equipped as per 91.209 that is fine. There’s a bit of a gotcha in the regs. A sport pilot can’t fly at night and as you note, night is defined by civil twilight however the lighting requirements start at sunset. So if you are flying an aircraft not equipped with lights, you lose that last little bit of flying time each day.
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That's why I just put lights on my E-LSA.
 
SkyDog58 said:
It can actually be a major consideration when deciding what airplane to buy as well as what certificate to pursue. As a Sport Pilot you can perform preventive maintenance on a LSA which carry a Special Airworthiness Certificate but you cannot do it on the Sport Pilot eligible aircraft that carry a Standard Airworthiness Certificate such as Cubs, Champs, Taylorcrafts, Luscombes, etc. For a pilot looking to reduce the total cost of his flying and ownership experience, it is not nonsensical. It is an important consideration.
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Make friends with an A&P. You can do any maintenance, not just peventive mx, under the supervision of an A&P. For something like an oil change, I wouldn't need to be constantly over your shoulder if I was confident you were properly shown how to do it once in order for me to check your work and to sign the return to service.
 
Witmo said:
Make friends with an A&P. You can do any maintenance, not just peventive mx, under the supervision of an A&P. For something like an oil change, I wouldn't need to be constantly over your shoulder if I was confident you were properly shown how to do it once in order for me to check your work and to sign the return to service.
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Legally, a SP would need your oversight just to add air to a tire, or add a glug of oil if the engine were a bit low. Seems just a tad excessive, especially since a SP can do PM to an SLSA.
 
If the medical isn't a concern, I would stick with the PPL route. You can fly LSA and under those rules with a PPL. The training, based on rentals near me,is the same per hour. There might be a few more hours, but I'd be surprised if it was 1/2 (most non- university type PPLs take more than 40 hours and I "assume" most SPLs take more than 20).

More flexibility. Less time to do the PPL now Ryan it will take to add it later and getting the medical now sets you up for basic Med.

Optionality. You can fly LSA with a PPL. You can't rent even a 152 solo with a SPL.
 
Half Fast said:
Legally, a SP would need your oversight just to add air to a tire, or add a glug of oil if the engine were a bit low. Seems just a tad excessive, especially since a SP can do PM to an SLSA.
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You're mistaken on what constitutes maintenance and preventive maintenance. Servicing an aircraft with a quart of oil or putting air in the tires or fueling an aircraft are not maintenance activities and would not require any supervision by an A& P. Do any of the activities I listed get logged in the maintenance records and do they require a signed return to service--no.
 
Witmo said:
You're mistaken on what constitutes maintenance and preventive maintenance. Servicing an aircraft with a quart of oil or putting air in the tires or fueling an aircraft are not maintenance activities and would not require any supervision by an A& P. Do any of the activities I listed get logged in the maintenance records and do they require a signed return to service--no.
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I'd like to believe you're right, but if adding a quart of oil isn't preventive maintenance then what is it?

The definition in 14 CFR 1.1 is pretty vague. "Preventive maintenance means simple or minor preservation operations and the replacement of small standard parts not involving complex assembly operations."
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Appendix a of part 43 gives the list of what falls under preventive maintenance.
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So if an item isn't specifically listed, like replenishing the oil reservoir, how is it treated? The closest thing I can find is:

(6) Lubrication not requiring disassembly other than removal of nonstructural items such as cover plates, cowlings, and fairings.​

Replenishing the hydraulic reservoir is specifically mentioned (item 8) as preventive maintenance, and thus is not allowed for a SP flying a certificated aircraft.

IANAL, but it appears to me that the regs are written in a positive fashion, so that if something isn't explicitly permitted it would be prohibited by default.

Realistically, no one will know (and likely no one will care) if a SP adds a few glugs of oil to his vintage Aeronca, but I'm sorta curious regarding how the regs are interpreted.
 
Half Fast said:
Realistically, no one will know (and likely no one will care) if a SP adds a few glugs of oil to his vintage Aeronca, but I'm sorta curious regarding how the regs are interpreted.
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This. In the end, who cares? we're talking about oil and air in the tires here. It doesn't require any specialized knowledge, and more to the point -- there is no training that a Private Pilot receives that a Sport Pilot does not that would make the slightest difference in their ability to perform these basic pre-flight tasks.

Maybe I added oil to a certificated airplane when I was a student pilot. Without the supervision of an A&P, or even my CFI. Shall I turn myself in to the nearest FSDO for disciplinary action?
 
If it takes a change of the oil to get up to the "preventative maintenance" level, then my take on it would be that adding a quart would fall under the same category as washing the airplane. But, I ain't no A&P and, thus, not an expert on what is and is not allowed.
 
DaleB said:
This. In the end, who cares? we're talking about oil and air in the tires here. It doesn't require any specialized knowledge, and more to the point -- there is no training that a Private Pilot receives that a Sport Pilot does not that would make the slightest difference in their ability to perform these basic pre-flight tasks.

Maybe I added oil to a certificated airplane when I was a student pilot. Without the supervision of an A&P, or even my CFI. Shall I turn myself in to the nearest FSDO for disciplinary action?
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There isn't any training a PPL receives that a SP doesn't for preventive maintenance at all, so the reg really makes zero sense in the first place. Why in the world a SP can do preventive maintenance on a Tecnam P92 but not on a (much simpler) Piper Cub is beyond me.
 
The adding oil part of this thread is funny. If that requires at least a private certificate, I guess so does adding fuel. Hope those line guys driving the fuel trucks are private pilots, although since it's not their airplane, they probably need to be mechanics. :D
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Adding oil is not "Preventative maintenance" and does not require a log entry and, thus, can be done by anyone.
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Pretty much. I'd only add a qualifier and make it "... anyone authorized by the owner/operator".

I've added oil as a fueler/lineman while going to school. I made no entries of any sort.
I've added oil as a pilot. Only entry was in flight log but none in maintenance log.
I've added oil as an A&P Mechanic. The entries made depended on the operator and ranged from nothing to an entry in the journey log or maintenance log.
 
MHarrow said:
I posted a week ago about getting my PPL. I have been looking at the Sport Pilot License. It look like it's what I want to do. I love to Camp and a Piper J-3 is exactly what I am looking for. The license is also about 6k cheaper at the place I want to go to.

So my question is does it sound like a good idea? Also what really are the restrictions?
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Cost was a consideration when I elected SP. Turned out cost was probably higher. We have one DPE who is booked solid. I cancelled my first check ride (freaked out...not ready) but was ready for the next (weather) and the next (weather) and the next (weather). The DPE had an 8 week lead time so by the time I got a good day, I was approaching 100 hours. When you miss a check ride and have to wait 6-8 weeks for the next shot, you still need to fly to be current. It wasn't a deal killer for me; I was flying so it was all good. Plus by the time I did my checkride, I was really REALLY ready. If cost is a big part of your decision, you may want to see how quickly you can get a checkride rescheduled or if you have multiple options for DPEs and how likely weather is to inhibit your schedule.

FWIW, I'm totally happy with SP. I have no desire to fly nights, IFR, bad weather, or fast with a plane full of people. I may add an endorsement for towered fields just to give me better options when flying longer distances.

Like everybody has said, if you go SP you can always add PP any time.
 
Adding a quart of oil is exactly the same as adding a gallon of fuel. No return to service signature in any maintenance record is required because it's servicing not maintenance. Adding a quart of oil is not the same as doing a complete oil change which would usually include decowling and recowling the engine and installing a new filter and cutting open the old one to inspect it among other things.
 
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