Sport Pilot License

[MHarrow]

I posted a week ago about getting my PPL. I have been looking at the Sport Pilot License. It look like it's what I want to do. I love to Camp and a Piper J-3 is exactly what I am looking for. The license is also about 6k cheaper at the place I want to go to.

So my question is does it sound like a good idea? Also what really are the restrictions?

 

[Palmpilot]

No flying at night.
No flying above 10,000 MSL unless you're 2000 feet above the ground or less.
No flying outside the U.S.
You always have to be able see the ground well enough to fly with reference to it.
There are certain types of airspace you can't fly in without an endorsement, but I don't remember the details.

More details are in this FAQ:

https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/advocacy-briefs/frequently-asked-questions-about-sport-pilot

Whether it's a good idea depends on whether the restrictions will be acceptable for the type of flying you want to do.

 

[Cluemeister]

Some will say don't bother with SPL if you can get a medical, go straight to PPL. I disagree. Sport Pilot is fine. Airspace endorsement is a relatively easy add on. If you want to step up later, add some night and hood work, and you're a written and check ride away from a PPL. Go for it!

 

[Cluemeister]

No flying at night.
No flying above 10,000 MSL unless you're 2000 feet above the ground or less.
No flying outside the U.S.
You always have to be able see the ground well enough to fly with reference to it.
There are certain types of airspace you can't fly in without an endorsement, but I don't remember the details.
If I've left out anything, someone will prpobably fill in the details.

Whether it's a good idea depends on whether the restrictions will be acceptable for the type of flying you want to do.

I would add Bahamas is ok with a SPL. On the negative, no flying after civil twilight (can't extend a late day flight and land in the dark), can't rent a 172 while on vacation, can only fly LSA aircraft, can't take two friends with you flying.

 

[N659HB]

If you get your training from a CFI your hours will count toward PPL, should you later want to “upgrade.” I went sport because it made more sense for me, flying recreationally.

 

[Dana]

Go for it. As Cluemeister said, you can always upgrade later if you want to. The biggest problem with SP is the lack of LSA airplanes to rent, but if you have your own plane that's really not an issue. And it seems likely that the LSA definition will be expanded in the near future. I have a PP, but my medical expired and I flew for quite awhile as a SP until this year when I bought a plane that's slightly too heavy for SP.

If you like J-3's look also at the other aircraft in that class, e.g. Taylorcraft, Aeronca, etc... usually cheaper and better performance.

 

[C-1 PILOT]

As rentals, LSA aircraft are harder to find. Your plan is solid, just make sure you take your lessons from a CFI, not SP CFI. This way, should you decide to go PPL, your training counts.

 

[midlifeflyer]

If you get your training from a CFI your hours will count toward PPL, should you later want to “upgrade.” I went sport because it made more sense for me, flying recreationally.

With the regs published in June (I forget the effective date, but it no later than next month), it no longer has to be a "regular" CFI. Training in equivalent areas of operation in the same category/class of aircraft given by a sport instructor—to be credited to the private certificate. New 61.109(l)

 

[frfly172]

If it fits your mission , go for it ,you can always go ppl later.

 

[N659HB]

With the regs published in June (I forget the effective date, but it no later than next month), it no longer has to be a "regular" CFI. Training in equivalent areas of operation in the same category/class of aircraft given by a sport instructor—to be credited to the private certificate. New 61.109(l)

Good to know. Thanks for the update!

 

[rtk11]

i got my sport pilot’s certificate thinking I’d fly a bit then go to a private pilot’s certificate. So far, the Sport Pilot certificate has met my missions and the restrictions aren’t a factor. I say to “go for it” as long as it meets your definition of a mission.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

You can't change the oil, shock cords, cotter keys, light bulbs, etc. in your Cub or other aircraft with a standard type certificate if you have a Sport Pilot certificate. (43.3 g).

 

[Clip4]

I posted a week ago about getting my PPL. I have been looking at the Sport Pilot License. It look like it's what I want to do. I love to Camp and a Piper J-3 is exactly what I am looking for. The license is also about 6k cheaper at the place I want to go to.

So my question is does it sound like a good idea? Also what really are the restrictions?

$6k cheaper? You might want to check you math.

 

[Warmi]

You can't change the oil, shock cords, cotter keys, light bulbs, etc. in your Cub or other aircraft with a standard type certificate if you have a Sport Pilot certificate. (43.3 g).

Indeed, ha ... I wonder if anyone actually gives a damn about nonsensical BS like that ...

 

[Half Fast]

If you get your training from a CFI your hours will count toward PPL, should you later want to “upgrade.” I went sport because it made more sense for me, flying recreationally.

Rules changed a few months ago. Training from a sport CFI also counts toward an upgrade now.

 

[ja_user]

Sport pilot is more useful than recreational pilot.. No doubt about that one. We had something like 200-300 people obtain that rating..

But with the restrictions, I wonder why bother with sport? Unless there is an outside influence... Like the medical, work reimbursement, etc....

 

[Warmi]

It is the medical - that’s the only reason making this cert useful to thousands of people.

There are only 10 000 or so actual cert holders but many more flying under SP privileges having their medical expired.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

But with the restrictions, I wonder why bother with sport? Unless there is an outside influence... Like the medical, work reimbursement, etc....

For a lot of people, going low and slow is all they want to do. Spend an hour in the evening when it is calm and smooth in their airknocker hitting the local grass strips with or without a friend along. No point in going full PPL if that is all they want to do.

 

[James331]

I posted a week ago about getting my PPL. I have been looking at the Sport Pilot License. It look like it's what I want to do. I love to Camp and a Piper J-3 is exactly what I am looking for. The license is also about 6k cheaper at the place I want to go to.

So my question is does it sound like a good idea? Also what really are the restrictions?

Sound good, but it’s not a savings really

Unless it’s a medical issue, I’d just get a PPL and medical, then go basic Med after.

Real world you’re going to want a little night and instrument, because stuff happens, might as well get the PPL

A PPL is also a international cert

 

[bflynn]

Good to know. Thanks for the update!

At the same time, remember that there are requirements for training in specific areas for upgrading SP to PPL. You have to have 3 hours of training in simulated IFR, night, cross country and test prep, topics you won’t cover in SP training. The previous requirement was only 20 and from a practical matter, you will still probably co,e close to that anyway.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

For a lot of people, going low and slow is all they want to do. Spend an hour in the evening when it is calm and smooth in their airknocker hitting the local grass strips with or without a friend along. No point in going full PPL if that is all they want to do.

Well, I used to fly a Cessna 120, now a Merlin GT. The big difference is that I now have to hit the ground when the sun does. Snot a big deal.

 

[James331]

Also being able to do some owner MX is a big deal if you fly long enough, especially if you’re flying backcountry.

I’ve heard of SPLs who wish they got their PPL, but never a PPL who wished he got his SPL.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Also being able to do some owner MX is a big deal if you fly long enough, especially if you’re flying backcountry.

I’ve heard of SPLs who wish they got their PPL, but never a PPL who wished he got his SPL.

Oh, yea, that's the other difference from the 120 - my current ride is E-AB so I only see the A&P once a year. (Well, I see him all the time, but I only pay him once a year.)

But, I suspect that by the time the fat lady sings, the actual difference in cost will be significantly less than the O.P. is thinking.

 

[SkyDog58]

Indeed, ha ... I wonder if anyone actually gives a damn about nonsensical BS like that ...

It can actually be a major consideration when deciding what airplane to buy as well as what certificate to pursue. As a Sport Pilot you can perform preventive maintenance on a LSA which carry a Special Airworthiness Certificate but you cannot do it on the Sport Pilot eligible aircraft that carry a Standard Airworthiness Certificate such as Cubs, Champs, Taylorcrafts, Luscombes, etc. For a pilot looking to reduce the total cost of his flying and ownership experience, it is not nonsensical. It is an important consideration.

 

[SkyDog58]

It is the medical - that’s the only reason making this cert useful to thousands of people.

There are only 10 000 or so actual cert holders but many more flying under SP privileges having their medical expired.

Not true. Not true at all. I know someone who lives near Broken Bow, NE who recently inherited a J3 Cub from his father who was a friend of mine. He just wants to learn to fly the Cub. He has no desire at this time to fly anything else and as the Cub does not have an electrical system, he does not plan on flying at night or into larger airports. He just wants to beat around the wide open spaces going low and slow as he had often done as a kid with his dad. Going Sport Pilot will allow him to do that and get his certificate quicker. He is in his early thirties with no known medical issues so the medical has nothing to do with his decision making process. And I do not believe his story is all that uncommon.

When it comes to the question, why sport pilot? There is more than one answer.

 

[Warmi]

It can actually be a major consideration when deciding what airplane to buy as well as what certificate to pursue. As a Sport Pilot you can perform preventive maintenance on a LSA which carry a Special Airworthiness Certificate but you cannot do it on the Sport Pilot eligible aircraft that carry a Standard Airworthiness Certificate such as Cubs, Champs, Taylorcrafts, Luscombes, etc. For a pilot looking to reduce the total cost of his flying and ownership experience, it is not nonsensical. It is an important consideration.

No, the point is that people don’t give a damn about this silly rule and go ahead and change oil and do similar simple maintenance on their certified LSAs anyway ..

 

[N659HB]

No, the point is that people don’t give a damn about this silly rule and go ahead and change oil and do similar simple maintenance on their certified LSAs anyway ..

Scofflaws! The horror!

 

[Warmi]

Not true. Not true at all. I know someone who lives near Broken Bow, NE who recently inherited a J3 Cub from his father who was a friend of mine. He just wants to learn to fly the Cub. He has no desire at this time to fly anything else and as the Cub does not have an electrical system, he does not plan on flying at night or into larger airports. He just wants to beat around the wide open spaces going low and slow as he had often done as a kid with his dad. Going Sport Pilot will allow him to do that and get his certificate quicker. He is in his early thirties with no known medical issues so the medical has nothing to do with his decision making process. And I do not believe his story is all that uncommon.

When it comes to the question, why sport pilot? There is more than one answer.

Yes, there folks like that but when you look at who was buying and flying ( and crashing, most of busted LSAs our there were due to PP ( or higher ) pilots transitioning to LSAs that they , foolishly, thought were much easier to fly than their Cessnas) LSA planes it was pretty much high time pilots with no medicals.
I myself went for the SP cert and I have no problem admitting that it was a stupid choice - you don’t save any money really ( given that it is mostly your invidual abilities/preferences that dictate how many hours you have to put in into training and not the official minimums ) and the actual training is pretty much the same as for the PP cert.

 

[Ravioli]

Yesterday @flyin'gator took me along for a BBQ run to 50R (Lockhart, TX). That was unremarkable, but while we were there someone who wasn't in our group showed up with an Eclipse E-10 Gyroplane.

He told us he's a Sport pilot with less than 2 years experience and he has already flown it to California and Maine! That is remarkable.

He said he usually flies ~1000' AGL at about 90-100 MPH, and that he and his wife can usually bring enough gear for 2-3 days in it. Longer trips they ship things ahead.

The Bahamas are on his list for the coming year.

[Our group was a couple of 182's, an SR22, a Matrix... so PPL or better for all. We all thought this guy and his bird were cool]

 

[ja_user]

For a lot of people, going low and slow is all they want to do. Spend an hour in the evening when it is calm and smooth in their airknocker hitting the local grass strips with or without a friend along. No point in going full PPL if that is all they want to do.

Hey Greg,

Of course. I"m not trying to say don't do it, but just go in with eyes wide open. Rental of light sport isn't really possible around here anymore, or very limited. Other areas could be different.
At least they finally got some light sport DPE's, that used to be a pain as well....

 

[Half Fast]

It doesn’t have to be an either / or decision. Getting SP does not preclude PP, and all SP training counts toward private.

Look at SP like getting an Associates degree en route to your Bachelors. If you’re at, say, 25 hours and have met all the SP criteria, all you need is a written and a checkride to lock down a pilot’s certificate. If for some reason you don’t finish your private (and the dropout rate is high) you will at least be a legal pilot and able to fly LSAs anytime and anywhere you like. And if you do continue, you can fly more on your own and with a passenger, building experience while you finish the PP.

Of course, it depends on LSA availability in your area, but since you posed the question I assume that’s not an issue.

 

[Clip4]

Not true. Not true at all. I know someone who lives near Broken Bow, NE who recently inherited a J3 Cub from his father who was a friend of mine. He just wants to learn to fly the Cub. He has no desire at this time to fly anything else and as the Cub does not have an electrical system, he does not plan on flying at night or into larger airports. He just wants to beat around the wide open spaces going low and slow as he had often done as a kid with his dad. Going Sport Pilot will allow him to do that and get his certificate quicker. He is in his early thirties with no known medical issues so the medical has nothing to do with his decision making process. And I do not believe his story is all that uncommon.

When it comes to the question, why sport pilot? There is more than one answer.

While there is an exception to every rule, new sport pilots are typically those who don’t qualify for a medical certificate with a dead end to progressing for more privledges.

All the big SP supporters fail to mention few SP certificates are issued and with no medical requirement it is impossible to track how many are active.

 

[Warmi]

...
Look at SP like getting an Associates degree en route to your Bachelors.
...

I think that it is a flawed comparison - in reality it is more like .. you have your Associates after 2 years and to get to Bachelors you just need to complete 2 or 3 more months ... I really believe that's the case with SP vs PP - the hard part is to learn to fly/land the airplane , the additional requirements for PP are very minimal ( compared to learning how to fly in the first place ) and can be done quickly.

 

[N659HB]

While there is an exception to every rule, new sport pilots are typically those who don’t qualify for a medical certificate with a dead end to progressing for more privledges.

All the big SP supporters fail to mention few SP certificates are issued and with no medical requirement it is impossible to track how many are active.

Maybe, but we're all required to self-certify fit to fly before getting behind the yoke/stick, medical or no medical.

 

[N659HB]

The biggest issue with SP training is finding a rental.

 

[Stan Cooper]

Unless it’s a medical issue, I’d just get a PPL and medical, then go basic Med after.

Real world you’re going to want a little night and instrument, because stuff happens, might as well get the PPL

This. I let my special issuance 3rd class medical lapse and flew for years as a sport pilot because of the hassle and expense of the SI. Several times on longer flights with unanticipated headwinds, I had to land and spend the night in a hotel just short of my destination because it was getting dark. With the advent of BasicMed I'm no longer restricted to day VFR.

 

[Palmpilot]

Well, I used to fly a Cessna 120, now a Merlin GT. The big difference is that I now have to hit the ground when the sun does. Snot a big deal.

When I was exercising sport pilot privileges, I used the FAR 1.1 definition of night, which is based on civil twilight.

 

[SkyDog58]

When I was exercising sport pilot privileges, I used the FAR 1.1 definition of night, which is based on civil twilight.

And as long as the aircraft is equipped as per 91.209 that is fine. There’s a bit of a gotcha in the regs. A sport pilot can’t fly at night and as you note, night is defined by civil twilight however the lighting requirements start at sunset. So if you are flying an aircraft not equipped with lights, you lose that last little bit of flying time each day.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

it is impossible to track how many are active.

The FAA chose to not track the number of pilots who fly under the sport pilot rules.
If they wanted to, it wouldn't even be hard.

 

[Palmpilot]

And as long as the aircraft is equipped as per 91.209 that is fine. There’s a bit of a gotcha in the regs. A sport pilot can’t fly at night and as you note, night is defined by civil twilight however the lighting requirements start at sunset. So if you are flying an aircraft not equipped with lights, you lose that last little bit of flying time each day.

That wasn't a factor on the LSAs I flew, but good point.