Speaking of fuel pumps…

Ya got fire sleeve between the power wire and the fuel line. What's the problem?
 
Is the mount (top center/right) dinged/gouged?
 
GeorgeC said:
Is the mount (top center/right) dinged/gouged?
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It is. There is an aluminum shroud that goes over the pump and pressurized cowl air is funneled there via small scat. The top of that shroud has been touching that mount…(or from the hose clamp from scat-to-shroud).

It looks hella worse than it is, but it’s definitely there.
 
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So what's the deal with the 4th hose clamp? Circled in yellow belowIMG_8742.jpeg
 
Looks like Dukes fuel pump. Slice some rubber hose like on the right and cover the motor mount tube. Maybe file smooth and paint.
 
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I’m looking into repair or complete replacement of the engine mount.

That arm is part of the front wheel steering. I don’t know what the hose clamp is for.

Now what can anyone tell me about the fuel pump?
 
I'm not a fan of using hose clamps for anything that could jam a control or spew fuel or oil if they break. Using them to attach a fuel pump would be a hard no for me. I dunno what the thing circled in yellow is, but it looks pretty sketchy to me also.
 
bonefishpete said:
Looks like Dukes fuel pump. Slice some rubber hose like on the right and cover the motor mount tube. Maybe file smooth and paint.
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This is pretty bad advice. It doesn't seem like sarcasm, but I hope it is.
 
Salty said:
This is pretty bad advice. It doesn't seem like sarcasm, but I hope it is.
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Well yes and no. Could watch it for cracks every oil change or go all the way and repair.
Maybe OH the engine well were there.
Show your mechanic that maintains the aircraft I’d suggest.

Steering tube clamp hold the rubber grommet back is my thoughts.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
I’m looking into repair or complete replacement of the engine mount.

That arm is part of the front wheel steering. I don’t know what the hose clamp is for.

Now what can anyone tell me about the fuel pump?
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Looks like a Dukes fuel pump that I had on a Mooney. Mooneyspace talks about them and getting them OH.
 
Domenick said:
I would hesitate to remove any more material from the tube.
I am not a welder. Could it be repaired in place?
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I’ve got zip-tie erosion, peeling paint, a bit of rust, etc. that have all built up from the last 40 years of owners and mechanics. Much as I hate to spend money, the engine mount is one of those things that doesn’t get the fanfare of the engine, prop, avionics, control surfaces, etc. but seems almost as vital or even moreso. It’s just not sexy or outwardly “paybackful-looking”.

Since we’re doing thread-drift and I got my question about the fuel pump answered - how many engine mount related aviation accidents have there been over the years?
 
Salty said:
I'm not a fan of using hose clamps for anything that could jam a control or spew fuel or oil if they break. Using them to attach a fuel pump would be a hard no for me. I dunno what the thing circled in yellow is, but it looks pretty sketchy to me also.
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I would be more comfortable if the fuel lines attached would be flex rather than hard.

This is just primer pump for the injected engine (it would serve in a pinch if the engine driven pump died in flight). It is extremely useful when doing a heat-soaked engine restart. I run the pump for 15-20 seconds with mixture off to push hot fuel and vapors back to the tank, then prime, then start with throttle advancement until it fires up. 100% results
 
bonefishpete said:
Well you may be right but what then? Remove engine and send mount in for repair?
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Send a picture of the damage to a shop that specializes in engine mount repairs. Too many mechanics will dismiss it. AC43.13 has the specs on tube damage.
Doc Holliday said:
Yea, think of the expense!
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Exactly. Let's leave it until it breaks.
Salty said:
I'm not a fan of using hose clamps for anything that could jam a control or spew fuel or oil if they break. Using them to attach a fuel pump would be a hard no for me.
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How would you mount it? Those pumps have no mounting flanges or tabs or lugs or anything else. Hose clamps are commonly used. Here is the Cessna-designed and FAA-approved mounting of the fuel boost pump in a $400,000 172S, under the floor on the copilot's side:

1757000952942.png
bonefishpete said:
Well yes and no. Could watch it for cracks every oil change or go all the way and repair.
Maybe OH the engine well were there.
Show your mechanic that maintains the aircraft I’d suggest.
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Show the shop that fixes them. That damage has already been missed by numerous mechanics. It is an airworthiness issue.
 
On the pump - is this a rotary vane type pump? If so, what’s the “funny” looking horizontal part under the fuel fittings? On one end mine has a red cover or cap on one end (that I can barely see because of a bracket) and the other end is solid.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
On the pump - is this a rotary vane type pump? If so, what’s the “funny” looking horizontal part under the fuel fittings? On one end mine has a red cover or cap on one end (that I can barely see because of a bracket) and the other end is solid.
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I think that is the bypass valve.
 
As mentioned, Dukes fuel pump. Without removing it, there’s no way to know the model number. What plane? That would tell you what model should be installed.
 
Dan Thomas said:
How would you mount it? Those pumps have no mounting flanges or tabs or lugs or anything else. Hose clamps are commonly used. Here is the Cessna-designed and FAA-approved mounting of the fuel boost pump in a $400,000 172S, under the floor on the copilot's side:
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My (Diamond DA40) boost pump is mounted in a similar location, but using Adel clamps. Thank goodness it is still working - getting it out will be a bear...


DSCF0872.JPG
 
donjohnston said:
As mentioned, Dukes fuel pump. Without removing it, there’s no way to know the model number. What plane? That would tell you what model should be installed.
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It’s a 1976 182P, which came with a carbureted engine (O-470), however this plane has an STC for the injected IO-470. In addition, that engine mount (that everyone got distracted with, lol) is part of another STC - the front mounted elevator canards. Both of these are part of the “Peterson conversion”. This iteration of the conversion was done in the late 1980’s and is called the 260SE.
 
NavAir said:
My (Diamond DA40) boost pump is mounted in a similar location, but using Adel clamps. Thank goodness it is still working - getting it out will be a bear...
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POAers should be aware that the manufacturer recommends a ten-year life limit on those pumps. The plastic pump vanes deteriorate after being immersed for so long in avgas. https://media.mcfarlaneaviation.com/documents/doc-dukes-sb-0003.pdf

Dukes pumps have become really expensive and hard to find. I think they're not being made anymore. Before I retired, Cessna started selling Weldon pumps to replace the Dukes pumps. We bought one for a 185 and could not get the pressures to come into range by adjusting the variable resistors that give low/medium power. I started investigating and found that the Weldon gave pumping performance equal to the Dukes but at less current draw, which messes up the voltage drops across those resistors. I contacted Cessna and they did the same calculations I did and admitted that the old resistors were not right for the application. They sent me new resistors. I told them that they needed to issue a service bulletin on the problem, since some mechanics would just replace the pump without recalibrating the resistors to get the pressures into range, and in an emergency that requires use of the pump, the fuel flow would be forced higher and possibly flood the engine. I never saw any such SB issued.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
It’s a 1976 182P, which came with a carbureted engine (O-470), however this plane has an STC for the injected IO-470. In addition, that engine mount (that everyone got distracted with, lol) is part of another STC - the front mounted elevator canards. Both of these are part of the “Peterson conversion”. This iteration of the conversion was done in the late 1980’s and is called the 260SE.
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Ha. This guy flew this engine mount around for 7 years.

Ed Haywood

Thread 'shade tree engine mount repair'

This Arrow came into my buddy's shop for annual. Once he washed 7 years of grunge off the engine, he found this repair.

A 9 inch section of a diagonal tube on the engine mount had been cut out. Another section of tube was split in half lengthwise and bolted to the stubs to replace the gap.
PXL_20241003_184400970.jpgPXL_20241003_183318913.jpgPXL_20241003_183332458.jpg
  • Wow
  • Like
  • Haha

I’m not seeing any zip ties on your engine mount, so at least it shouldn’t explode and burst into flames, because from what I’ve read here, a zip tie on an engine mount is guaranteed immediate death and destruction.

All joking aside, a 182 with the Peterson conversion sounds amazing. That has got to be fun to fly. Any pics of the plane? How’s the short field performance?
 
aterry1067 said:
All joking aside, a 182 with the Peterson conversion sounds amazing. That has got to be fun to fly. Any pics of the plane? How’s the short field performance?
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It’s fun. Makes me look like a better pilot than I am and it manages minor pilot mistakes with grace that I am not owed.

I bought it for safety and forgiveness if in an emergency situation (while I believe more buy them for back-country abilities but with load, range, and speed abilities). Flaps 20 stall speed is 35 knots (40 with no flaps). If I screw up an emergency landing, or off-field, or hit trees/buildings/cars, or ditch in water, my odds of surviving are a little more improved.

I like that I can carry 80 gallons, or 4 people, or over 1000 lbs. I also like the upper end of the range which is 137 true without wheel pants and 143 with.

If I’m on a short field approach I do 55 kts across the threshold, and if I get a little aggressive with the power and brakes I can plop it on and stop before 2 runway stripes pass.


IMG_9603.jpeg
 
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455 Bravo Uniform said:
It’s fun. Makes me look like a better pilot than I am and it manages minor pilot mistakes with grace that I am not owed.

I bought it for safety and forgiveness if in an emergency situation (while I believe more buy them for back-country abilities but with load, range, and speed abilities). Flaps 20 stall speed is 35 knots (40 with no flaps). If I screw up an emergency landing, or off-field, or hit trees/buildings/cars, or ditch in water, my odds of surviving are a little more improved.

I like that I can carry 80 gallons, or 4 people, or over 1000 lbs. I also like the upper end of the range which is 137 true without wheel pants and 143 with.

If I’m on a short field approach I do 55 kts across the threshold, and if I get a little aggressive with the power and brakes I can plop it on and stop before 2 runway stripes pass.


View attachment 144813
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Holy smokes, that's beautiful. Congrats! Those are amazing numbers.
 
aterry1067 said:
...
I’m not seeing any zip ties on your engine mount, so at least it shouldn’t explode and burst into flames, because from what I’ve read here, a zip tie on an engine mount is guaranteed immediate death and destruction.
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Your plane is unlikely to explode from a ziptie on an engine mount, but it can cause your wallet to deflate.
Grit gets under it and vibration creates a mini sander.
3mpnysvjn3t51.jpg
 
Half Fast said:
Did that actually cut into the metal, or just the paint?
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It's through the paint along the edges and the metal is starting to get cut. As a mechanic I have seen damaged mount tubing due to that.

A good epoxy or urethane paint is actually harder for a ziptie to grind through than the metal.
 
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