Solo flight

[Let'sgoflying!]

Well-experienced student 2 years previously signed off for solo then situation made continued training impossible.
Has current written (ie not expired)
Has basic med.

Now, has plane but nearest instructor is 130nm away.

I recall as a student were we signed off for solo and could venture 50mi to a training area.

Is it possible a cfi could fly with student, sign them off for solo again, once proficient, approve them to commute solo from home base to complete instruction (mainly solo xc prep)? Or is 130nm too far & and seen as a xc in itself vs ‘commuting’?

 

[dmspilot]

If it's over 50nm away, each flight has to be signed off under 61.93(c)(3). There are options for "one signoff for multiple flights" if they are within 25nm or within 50nm, with slightly different requirements depending on which one.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

If it's over 50nm away, each flight has to be signed off under 61.93(c)(3). There are options for "one signoff for multiple flights" if they are within 25nm or within 50nm, with slightly different requirements depending on which one.

Thanks
I'm thinking you are saying it's not impossible. Perhaps it's up to the cfi.
The multiple sign-offs won't be necessarily be needed as the student could get a sign off at each lesson, for the next 'commute'. (which I'm sure an instructor would probably be more comfortable with.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Thanks
I'm thinking you are saying it's not impossible. Perhaps it's up to the cfi.
The multiple sign-offs won't be necessarily be needed as the student could get a sign off at each lesson, for the next 'commute'. (which I'm sure an instructor would probably be more comfortable with.

Not only “more comfortable with,” but required. It’s not “multiple signoffs” for a bunch of >50 NM flights, but a sign off for each flight. The requirements for the contents of the endorsement are in 61.93(c), but the important part for CFI “comfort” is 61.93(d)

(d) Limitations on authorized instructors to permit solo cross-country flights. An authorized instructor may not permit a student pilot to conduct a solo cross-country flight unless that instructor has:​

(1) Determined that the student’s cross-country planning is correct for the flight;​

(2) Reviewed the current and forecast weather conditions and has determined that the flight can be completed under VFR;​

(3) Determined that the student is proficient to conduct the flight safely;​

(4) Determined that the student has the appropriate solo cross-country endorsement for the make and model of aircraft to be flown; and​

(5) Determined that the student’s solo flight endorsement is current for the make and model aircraft to be flown.​

​

I guess the good news is that it’s possible. Finding a “comfortable” instructor(*) and since the sign off is based on weather for the day of the flight, coordination for the endorsements might be a little more difficult.​

​

(*) or instructors - these individual endorsements do not need to be done by the regular instructor.​

 

[RyanB]

The multiple sign-offs won't be necessarily be needed as the student could get a sign off at each lesson, for the next 'commute'. (which I'm sure an instructor would probably be more comfortable with.

Not necessarily. The sign off needs to occur the day of the flight.

 

[SebIp]

Now try to find an instructor who’d do that might be the challenge.

Locally here there was a doctor who never finished his training but was flying on his student permit without each flight being signed off and carrying passengers to boot. Eventually his student permit expired and he decided to renew it. As I understand it he couldn’t really find anyone to take him on. Eventually he found a 80 year old cfi who was willing on some conditions. At the time this doctor had 111 hours of mostly illegal flights without authorization from any instructor.

On the first cross country flight after he managed to satisfy the 80 year old CFI, he crashed on take off and died.

I know my guy would have never been comfortable with him not talking to me before the flight. Yeah there was a few times he’d prefer to not be at the airport at the crack of dawn that suited my schedule, so he’d call or text me to authorize. That was at the end of my training when on dual he was just texting his friends. And every time we called it in preflight for weather it was me in the whole time we were training. He’d be ok to try and go and I am like it doesn’t look great let’s cancel.

Anyhow the point is finding someone willing might be your issue. They’d likely need to get comfortable with you first.

 

[Hang 4]

Why not move the plane to the instructor's airport and have the instructor fly to him? Or find a halfway solution until he gets his private?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Completely aside from the technicalities, we’re talking about a student pilot with their own airplane. I am trying to picture how remote that student must be if the nearest CFI is 130 nm away. Is this someone on a ranch with its own landing strip?

 

[Half Fast]

Completely aside from the technicalities, we’re talking about a student pilot with their own airplane. I am trying to picture how remote that student must be if the nearest CFI is 130 nm away. Is this someone on a ranch with its own landing strip?

Now enlarge your picture and just imagine how that remote owner, with an A&P potentially farther away, is going to handle maintenance.....

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Why not move the plane to the instructor's airport and have the instructor fly to him? Or find a halfway solution until he gets his private?

It might be difficult to find an instructor to commit that much time.
However, I appreciate the alternative idea.
What might happen is the student relocate for a week to the cfi area.

 

[Dana]

I have a friend who was in a similar situation as a student; he owned a C-170 and commuted to his instructor (no tailwheel CFIs at our home field). But it was only 43 miles, so the XC signoff issues didn't exist. He loves flying and flew a lot, he had over 500 hours before he got around to scheduling the checkride.

 

[RussR]

Y’all just aren’t being creative enough.

130 nm is just 3 <50 nm XC flights. So if the route is A-D, you find intermediate airports and train the student over A-B, B-C, and C-D, each of which is <50 nm from the previous airport. Then give the repeated 50-nm XC endorsement for each airport pair. The student then, while enroute, lands at each airport then “starts a new flight” to the next airport. Logs each leg on a new line. Takes a little bit longer than flying straight there, but what student doesn’t need work on their landings and traffic patterns anyway?

I mean, the “logging on a new line” seems to be the basis for a whole lot of discussion about logging to meet requirements, including the (BS to me) “repositioning” flights to allow a XC to count, so why not apply it here too?

I mean, as a CFI, _I_ wouldn’t do this, but it seems like something someone might do.

 

[RussR]

Not necessarily. The sign off needs to occur the day of the flight.

That is not explicitly required by the regulations. In practice that’s what usually happens, and pretty much has to happen for most students, most CFIs, and most situations, but it’s not stated as a requirement in 61.93.

 

[midlifeflyer]

That is not explicitly required by the regulations. In practice that’s what usually happens, and pretty much has to happen for most students, most CFIs, and most situations, but it’s not stated as a requirement in 61.93.

I think some find it difficult to

(2) Reviewed the current and forecast weather conditions

except on the day of the flight.

Y’all just aren’t being creative enough.

130 nm is just 3 <50 nm XC flights. So if the route is A-D, you find intermediate airports and train the student over A-B, B-C, and C-D, each of which is <50 nm from the previous airport. Then give the repeated 50-nm XC endorsement for each airport pair. The student then, while enroute, lands at each airport then “starts a new flight” to the next airport. Logs each leg on a new line. Takes a little bit longer than flying straight there, but what student doesn’t need work on their landings and traffic patterns anyway?

I mean, the “logging on a new line” seems to be the basis for a whole lot of discussion about logging to meet requirements, including the (BS to me) “repositioning” flights to allow a XC to count, so why not apply it here too?

I mean, as a CFI, _I_ wouldn’t do this, but it seems like something someone might do.

Creative, yes, but I'm not sure that works since the repeated flight endorsement is for

solo flights from the airport where the student pilot normally receives training to another location.

 

[Mikey52]

If you and your instructor use ForeFlight can't he push an endorsement to you on the day of the flight. Call him in the morning. Give him your plan and briefing. Let him verify on his end the send you the endorsement.

 

[midlifeflyer]

If you and your instructor use ForeFlight can't he push an endorsement to you on the day of the flight. Call him in the morning. Give him your plan and briefing. Let him verify on his end the send you the endorsement.

Sure. That's probably the easiest clearly legitimate way to accomplish the long cross country flight from home to instruction on a flight by flight basis.

 

[RussR]

I think some find it difficult to

except on the day of the flight.

As stated, that is typically true, however there's no definition of "current" there either. Common practice would imply that "current" could mean anything up to maybe a few hours before the flight, in some cases that's about as close as you could realistically get.

Although, for a sunrise flight in Fairbanks, AK, on June 21, where takeoff could be at 2:57 AM, an endorsement could easily reasonably be provided the "day before".

Creative, yes, but I'm not sure that works since the repeated flight endorsement is for

Okay, yes, I missed that text. Interesting, though that that wording is in the header paragraph (b), and repeated in the 25-mile XC subparagraph (1), but not in the 50-mile XC subparagraph (2) - although of course it counts there too due to the inclusion in (b).

 

[RussR]

If you and your instructor use ForeFlight can't he push an endorsement to you on the day of the flight. Call him in the morning. Give him your plan and briefing. Let him verify on his end the send you the endorsement.

Absolutely. This and other similar methods are how I would typically do such endorsements. There's no reason to drive out to the airport just to sign an endorsement.

 

[pkflyer]

Question for CFI(I)s out there. I am coming back to my PPL after a break. I recently solo'd and was verified by two different CFIs prior to my solo. I have a new CFI during to changes in the flight school. I mentioned having to get another solo endorsement since my 90 days has expired. My new CFI indicated he won't allow me to solo since I am close to my check ride and that I would have to do all my flying with him.
Does this make any sense? I thought the purpose of the solo endorsement was to allow the student to build confidence? I have my solo cross country done. Just have my solo at towered to complete for the PPL requirements. Thoughts