SID selection & Clearance Delivery

Country Flier said:
Isn't it funny how some people get freaked out on the radio, but are just fine on the phone...personally, (depending on the field of course) I'd probably ask over the radio, but that's just me.
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You can call them on the radio, but the question was determining the SID pre flight plane filling.
 
I have a question about "radio" (VHF comm) use. I am on the ground at Bishop, CA (KBIH) that has both a FSS and center frequency on the airport. The center frequency is not a clearance delivery frequency. It is the active ATC control frequency for the area. Shouldn't I be communicating with FSS on the ground for clearances and other ATC issues? Seems like the center frequency shouldn't be used on the ground until FSS advises me to switch to it.
 
aterpster said:
I have a question about "radio" (VHF comm) use. I am on the ground at Bishop, CA (KBIH) that has both a FSS and center frequency on the airport. The center frequency is not a clearance delivery frequency. It is the active ATC control frequency for the area. Shouldn't I be communicating with FSS on the ground for clearances and other ATC issues? Seems like the center frequency shouldn't be used on the ground until FSS advises me to switch to it.
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I’ve always used the Center frequency for clearance in those situations. Flight Service isn’t technically a clearance delivery frequency, either.
 
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aterpster said:
I have a question about "radio" (VHF comm) use. I am on the ground at Bishop, CA (KBIH) that has both a FSS and center frequency on the airport. The center frequency is not a clearance delivery frequency. It is the active ATC control frequency for the area. Shouldn't I be communicating with FSS on the ground for clearances and other ATC issues? Seems like the center frequency shouldn't be used on the ground until FSS advises me to switch to it.
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I know of no regulations which requires you to use the FSS instead of the ATC frequency when both are available.

Calling ATC directly is the faster and simpler method, if the controller has time to issue the clearance. If he's too busy he can tell you to go through FSS.
 
Arnold said:
It works the other way as well. When I was teaching at a controlled field I always let the ATC folks know that a FAM flight was available, just make the request and I'd arrange it.
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Similarly, when my wife learned to fly at a towered field, the flight school owner arranged for her to go up to the tower to see it from the controller's point of view. I went along (it was Dulles after all). Pretty neat experience. While we were up there, the controller cleared another pilot who was in position to takeoff. He was dealing with other aircraft. A few minutes later he turns back to find the guy still sitting on the piano keys. He made some disparaging comment about student pilots, but then apologized to my wife.
 
aterpster said:
I have a question about "radio" (VHF comm) use. I am on the ground at Bishop, CA (KBIH) that has both a FSS and center frequency on the airport. The center frequency is not a clearance delivery frequency. It is the active ATC control frequency for the area. Shouldn't I be communicating with FSS on the ground for clearances and other ATC issues? Seems like the center frequency shouldn't be used on the ground until FSS advises me to switch to it.
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Understanding that some things are different geographically, every place I have FSS for a clearance and Center or Approach was reachable on the ground, FSS has told me to just call the controlling agency.

Made sense to me for multiple reasons. Cutting out the middleman makes it quicker, less chance of error, and gives the ability to negotiate directly if necessary.
 
aterpster said:
I have a question about "radio" (VHF comm) use. I am on the ground at Bishop, CA (KBIH) that has both a FSS and center frequency on the airport. The center frequency is not a clearance delivery frequency. It is the active ATC control frequency for the area. Shouldn't I be communicating with FSS on the ground for clearances and other ATC issues? Seems like the center frequency shouldn't be used on the ground until FSS advises me to switch to it.
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Now a days it is done by phone with CD center. FSS no longer has responsibility for relaying clearances via the phone, although they will still do it via radio. Either via a FSS radio relay, or phone to center, you are getting the clearance from center.
 
Are you talking about the "nationwide clearance delivery line?" That's still FSS, just a dedicated position there.
 
Talking about this from the AIM. Prior to the change, pilots could either call FSS on 1800WXBRIEF or on the dedicated line for IFR clearances using 1-888-766-8267. Calling on the phone to a FSS for an ATC relay of a clearance is no longer supported, but if you reach FSS via the radio, it is still available. Section 5-2-3 was added on 9/13/2018 to the AIM. The purpose of the change was:

This change advises pilots at participating airports
that they should contact ATC on the frequency or
phone number published in the Chart Supplement
U.S. in order to obtain or cancel their Instrument
Flight Rules (IFR) clearance.
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5−2−3. IFR Clearances Off Uncontrolled Airports
a. Pilots departing on an IFR flight plan should consult the Chart Supplement U.S. to determine the frequency or telephone number to use to contact clearance delivery. On initial contact, pilots should advise that the flight is IFR and state the departure and destination airports.
b. Air traffic facilities providing clearance delivery services via telephone will have their telephone number published in the Chart Supplement U.S. of that airport’s entry. This same section may also contain a telephone number to use for cancellation of an IFR flight plan after landing.
c. Except in Alaska, pilots of MEDEVAC flights may obtain a clearance by calling 1−877−543−4733.
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flyingron said:
Are you talking about the "nationwide clearance delivery line?" That's still FSS, just a dedicated position there.
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I'd guess the phone number in the AFD for calling ATC directly.
 
aterpster said:
I have a question about "radio" (VHF comm) use. I am on the ground at Bishop, CA (KBIH) that has both a FSS and center frequency on the airport. The center frequency is not a clearance delivery frequency. It is the active ATC control frequency for the area. Shouldn't I be communicating with FSS on the ground for clearances and other ATC issues? Seems like the center frequency shouldn't be used on the ground until FSS advises me to switch to it.
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AF/D implies you should call Radio first. If that don’t work, then Center on the phone.

CLEARANCE DELIVERY PHONE: For CD if una to ctc on FSS freq, ctc Oakland ARTCC at 510-745-3380.

Maybe Center has comm on the surface there and they don’t want you bothering the Controller on the Radio. Or maybe they don’t have comm to the ground.
There is a licensed UNICOM there. You could call them and ask ‘how do I get a Clearance around here. Maybe they might get it for you. Some UNICOM’s can do it but I doubt it there.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Why get a relay when you can talk to Center directly? Do you get airborne revised clearances that way?
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When in the air I am their traffic. On the ground I am not. FSS or a telephone call serves the purpose of clearance delivery without loading up the controller working traffic.

CPDLC is long overdue for GA.
 
aterpster said:
When in the air I am their traffic. On the ground I am not. FSS or a telephone call serves the purpose of clearance delivery without loading up the controller working traffic.

CPDLC is long overdue for GA.
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So both current answers are wrong…I’ll keep using Center, since I don’t see that as being more wrong than FSS.
 
aterpster said:
When in the air I am their traffic. On the ground I am not. FSS or a telephone call serves the purpose of clearance delivery without loading up the controller working traffic.

CPDLC is long overdue for GA.
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If you contact FSS, they are just going to call center or the local TRACON anyway and then relay the clearance. Same amount of work on the part of the controller.

CPDLC is making its way into GA, primarily business jets. Still way too expensive for piston and probably turboprop.
 
aterpster said:
When in the air I am their traffic. On the ground I am not. FSS or a telephone call serves the purpose of clearance delivery without loading up the controller working traffic.
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John Collins said:
If you contact FSS, they are just going to call center or the local TRACON anyway and then relay the clearance. Same amount of work on the part of the controller.
.
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The entry in the DCS states FSS, if unable to contact them telephone Oakland.
 
I'd recommend listening on the frequency and if they sound really busy, call AFSS. It's likely that the AFSS phone call will go to a data position instead of the busy radar controller. Otherwise, call the radar controller.
 
Any phone call will go to a CD position just like with the GCO/RCO. Wally was answering the "why don't you pick up your clearance airborne?" question.
 
My NBAA expert says the order set forth in the DCS is supposed to be followed.
 
luvflyin said:
It’s Riverside Radio. Couple hundred miles away
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The RCO is not more than 1 mile anywhere on the airport. The Riverside FSS is about 500 miles away, in this building at KPRC:

Western FSS.jpg
 
When I was at PRC in the late 70's it was on the field. They provided field advisories. It is where I took my Private and Commercial written exams. I took my Instrument written and ride at the GADO in OWD. Different times.
 
If you’re departing BNA, then BNA is a D-ATIS and PDC airport. If you’re using FF Performance package with your tail number set up for PDC, you will get your clearance emailed to you.

When you file it in FF, you get an expected route if. The clearance is available 30 min before your files departure. Some companies file 30 min before they’re really departing so the clearance is available 60 min before departure.

In the professional flying world, we don’t study/brief the SID until we get the clearance 60 min before departure. We definitely do NOT delay the read back of the clearance like someone else suggested.

And yes, if you have any questions about the SID, be sure to contact ATC CD and verify it. Some clearances can be confusing. Asking for help is free. Pilot deviations and violations are not. I’ve flown in/out of BNA and surrounding airports a lot. Pretty straight forward there.


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sarangan said:
There is some merit in studying before reading it back, although I haven't heard of pilots doing it that way. There have been times when I have read back what I think I heard, then struggled to find an intersection on the map because I had no idea how that name was actually spelled. It felt stupid asking how something was spelled after having read back and acknowledged everything.

Wife says "buy milk from the store". You reply "sure thing, I'll buy milk". Then you when you are ready to head out, you realize you don't know if she said milk or silk. You come back and ask her to spell milk for you. She asks "why did you acknowledge if you had no idea if I said milk or silk".
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I think this leads into expectation bias. Typically, you looked up your route, and hopefully with the help of an EFB, picked a route that seems reasonable. Any changes or deviations will make it difficult for your brain to process and even harder to accept.

Same goes with your wife (and mine).
 
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