Short Field Landing Tips?

stevenhmiller

stevenhmiller

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Steve's Archer
What tips can experienced guys give for short field landings? I'm flying a Piper Archer II.
Thanks!
 
I always preferred a steeper than normal approach with a slower than normal indicated airspeed. You cover less ground per unit of time. Much easier to get it on the spot.
 
Remember that your round out point probably won't be your touchdown point.
 
Remember to stop before you get to the far end of the runway. Do not stop before you get to the near end of the runway.
 
Slips are your friend, be very familiar with the backside of the power curve and all forums of stalls in your airframe.
 
What tips can experienced guys give for short field landings?
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Get a better STOL airplane.

Seriously, what constitutes a short field in an Archer? We don't have many low wing planes around here.
 
Do it backwards. No not THAT. Set up in a stabilized short field configuration and, without trying to nail the spot, observe how the airplane performs. Then, adjust your approach path and aim point to let the airplane land where you want it to.
 
How short is short? I've had my Bonanza in and out of a 1700' grass before and it was easy. I was based on a 2200' grass strip that I routinely would have full wings tanks and 3 up in it (on a mild cooler day). So what's short?


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An Archer is a PA-28 - it ought to be able to do a 65 kt approach, round out before the runway and touch down on the numbers using less than 800' of runway well short of the "barn door" marks at 1000'.

How you get there - it's been said...nail your speed. Then get consistent with touching down on a point well down the runway, I used to use the 1000' markers as a fake threshold. Learn to use slips to adjust where you're going to touch down. For me, this was just repetition and watching the result.

After you have all that, start moving your aiming point back until you're rounding out before the threshold and touching down on the numbers. Now you can do it.

One caution - be sure of your height. I know of at least one Warrior that took out end lights on the runway because he was too low.
 
Land as close to the beginning of the runway as you can, safe but close. Comes with practice.
 
Make sure to nail the short field landing airspeed. 5 knots too fast will make a huge difference. When you round out, make sure you close the throttle all the way. Feel it hit the stop.
 
bflynn said:
An Archer is a PA-28 - it ought to be able to do a 65 kt approach, round out before the runway and touch down on the numbers using less than 800' of runway well short of the "barn door" marks at 1000'.

How you get there - it's been said...nail your speed. Then get consistent with touching down on a point well down the runway, I used to use the 1000' markers as a fake threshold. Learn to use slips to adjust where you're going to touch down. For me, this was just repetition and watching the result.

After you have all that, start moving your aiming point back until you're rounding out before the threshold and touching down on the numbers. Now you can do it.

One caution - be sure of your height. I know of at least one Warrior that took out end lights on the runway because he was too low.
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Speed control (1.2Vso on short final and aiming short) always worked for me. Scared a lot of Part 135 check pilots. Get VERY comfortable at the low end of the airspeed indicator and remember that the wing develops maximum lift just before the stall.

Bob Gardner
 
The PTS requires a short field landing to be 'called.' Then you must hit that spot no further than 200 feet from the start of it. Usually it's the numbers or the TDZ.

Assuming calm winds, use full flaps and level no faster than 1.3 Vso ten feet above the runway, flare at your called point and you should get down within the 200 feet.
 
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d5by5 said:
The PTS requires a short field landing to be 'called.' That is, you must call the landing spot, then hit that spot within 200 feet. Usually it's the numbers or the TDZ.

Assuming calm winds, use full flaps and level no faster than 1.3 Vso ten feet above the runway, flare at your called point and you should get down within the 200 feet.
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I just land as short as possible without hitting the threshold lights.
 
dell30rb said:
I just land as short as possible without hitting the threshold lights.
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That too. When I do it, it does feel like I am skimming the threshold lights..not a fan of full flap landings.
 
Ground effect will slow the rate of descent and "cushion" the touchdown but that takes practice and experience to judge how it affects hitting your spot. Go practice slow flight and then practice short field landings. Do the slow flight up high enough and the landings on a strip that's long enough to provide a margin of safety. When you get to where you can land consistently in half of a 2000' strip? It'll look very different going into a 1000' strip. It's no different after regularly using only half of a 1000' strip and going into a 500 footer.

A pilot friend told me a story where he was bragging about landing in 200' in his Cub. The old guy he was talking to asked where he was practicing. My friend said he had a measurement marked downfield of the threshold at a 2000' strip. The old guy told him if he was any good he'd use the last 200' instead of the first.
 
Be stabilized and follow aircraft procedures. Don't land long.
 
Stewartb said:
Ground effect will slow the rate of descent and "cushion" the touchdown but that takes practice and experience to judge how it affects hitting your spot. Go practice slow flight and then practice short field landings. Do the slow flight up high enough and the landings on a strip that's long enough to provide a margin of safety. When you get to where you can land consistently in half of a 2000' strip? It'll look very different going into a 1000' strip. It's no different after regularly using only half of a 1000' strip and going into a 500 footer.

A pilot friend told me a story where he was bragging about landing in 200' in his Cub. The old guy he was talking to asked where he was practicing. My friend said he had a measurement marked downfield of the threshold at a 2000' strip. The old guy told him if he was any good he'd use the last 200' instead of the first.
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That is exactly what I had the guy do that wanted me to get give him some short field instruction before he tried going into a 900ft strip at 5200ft elevation. He showed me how easily he could do it on the 1st 900 feet of our 5000 foot runway. I then had him show me a short field landing on the last 900 feet. There is about 200foot unpaved overrun area so we had a little margin if he blew it. But I was trying to demonstrate to him how scary this short strip would be.

Brian
 
Stewartb said:
Ground effect will slow the rate of descent and "cushion" the touchdown but that takes practice and experience to judge how it affects hitting your spot. Go practice slow flight and then practice short field landings. Do the slow flight up high enough and the landings on a strip that's long enough to provide a margin of safety. When you get to where you can land consistently in half of a 2000' strip? It'll look very different going into a 1000' strip. It's no different after regularly using only half of a 1000' strip and going into a 500 footer.

A pilot friend told me a story where he was bragging about landing in 200' in his Cub. The old guy he was talking to asked where he was practicing. My friend said he had a measurement marked downfield of the threshold at a 2000' strip. The old guy told him if he was any good he'd use the last 200' instead of the first.
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The old guy was a bs artist. Landing in the last 200 feet is the easiest way. Simply slow fly it down the runway , stick all the way back, hand on just enough throttle to keep it a couple of feet above the runway. Not difficult at all if you know your aircraft well. Landing smoothly on the numbers, full stall is more difficult I think. Ineither case, knowing well what your flying is imperative.
 
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I'll wait for your video. Show us. But that's not how any pilot I know flies, including the professional hunting guide pilot in the story.
 
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Land into the wind...but seriously nail your airspeed and understand slow powered flight..
 
Don't be afraid to go around and set up the approach again. Don't force the landing. Practice lots of slow flight.
 
Stewartb said:
Get a better STOL airplane.

Seriously, what constitutes a short field in an Archer? We don't have many low wing planes around here.
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:dunno:


Folks like this are landing in some good backcountry strips in RG Mooneys

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8IA--Dau4V0


Most GA planes can land at most backcountry strips, more a matter of the pilot than buying tundras and carbon cubs, AOAs, etc etc etc

I get a kick out of some of the videos, you got all these "bush pilots" thinking they just performed some heroic landing in their mighty supercub on tundras, when in comes a stone stock cessna 150, or worse a Bo and lands just fine.
 
Short field assumes you're clearing an obstacle at the approach end. There's a difference in procedure to must minimize ground roll on a clear approach and trying to get in to a tight field with trees at the end.

The key is ENERGY management (not just airspeed).
 
Here's a clip of a very average landing. The strip is about 1100' and the Cub is about 500' downfield. What I see is that I'm too flat on final. That makes me too fast and with that I have poor control of hitting my spot. I burn over 100' of runway as a result. Not a problem given the available space but it allows me to view my error and fix it. Obstacles have nothing to do with it. The best short landings come from maximum control at minimum speed. Steep and slow to hitting a precise spot. Airframe cams are helpful for seeing things you don't see while flying.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h7lfV3-YuXw
 
Stewartb said:
Here's a clip of a very average landing. The strip is about 1100' and the Cub is about 500' downfield. What I see is that I'm too flat on final. That makes me too fast and with that I have poor control of hitting my spot. I burn over 100' of runway as a result. Not a problem given the available space but it allows me to view my error and fix it. Obstacles have nothing to do with it. The best short landings come from maximum control at minimum speed. Steep and slow to hitting a precise spot. Airframe cams are helpful for seeing things you don't see while flying.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h7lfV3-YuXw
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I like your runway!


Just my 2 cents, I'd try to get low over that grassy area sooner, work the back side of the power curve, then reduce power to put her right on the very start of your runway.
 
Then you should do that. The winds at my strip are always swirling and mechanical turbulence is normal. Dragging it in on the prop is a great way to bend an airplane. Steep and slow is much better. Decelerate all the way down. If you have to arrest the descent with a blip of throttle you add distance to your rollout. How to make it all work in real world conditions is what piloting is all about.
 
Stewartb said:
Then you should do that. The winds at my strip are always swirling and mechanical turbulence is normal. Dragging it in on the prop is a great way to bend an airplane. Steep and slow is much better. Decelerate all the way down. If you have to arrest the descent with a blip of throttle you add distance to your rollout. How to make it all work in real world conditions is what piloting is all about.
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Million ways to skin a cat, seems like you're landing with enough space left so I'm by no means saying you're "doing it wrong" or anything :)
 
Here's the strip from the other direction. Again in swirling breezes and again a bit of a sloppy landing. Demonstrating a short landing wasn't the intent but I see things I should have done better. Too flat has always been my "miss". I try to fix it but it creeps back into play. The GoPro helps me see it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QlfuPVDE7CY
 
Stewartb said:
Here's the strip from the other direction. Again in swirling breezes and again a bit of a sloppy landing. Demonstrating a short landing wasn't the intent but I see things I should have done better. Too flat has always been my "miss". I try to fix it but it creeps back into play. The GoPro helps me see it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QlfuPVDE7CY
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Nice!

What did you mount the go pro to?

I'm wanting to buy a refurb one from gopro for $279

( http://shop.gopro.com/cameras/refurbished-hero3plus-black-edition/CHDNH-B07.html )

not sure where to mount it, I was thinking of mounting it to the tail stinger with something like this.

http://shop.gopro.com/mounts/handlebar-seatpost-pole-mount/GRH30.html

image.jpg
 
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That position uses a RAM base attached to an inspection cover (a spare cover, I keep the painted one in the glove box). I have other mounts on the left strut and one on a lifting ring.
 

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Stewartb said:
That position uses a RAM base attached to an inspection cover (a spare cover, I keep the painted one in the glove box). I have other mounts on the left strut and one on a lifting ring.
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Thanks.

Is that a polar filter on it?

I see your plane used to be on floats :D
 
The filter is an NFlight ND (prop) filter. ND filters are necessary to get rid of the prop artifacts in action videos but mostly I use it to protect the lens from rocks. I figure it's a consumable item.

yes, 2870s and then 2960s. I don't miss float flying much. Wheels and skis serve me better these days.
 
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