Seat recovering

[Jim K]

So the front seats in the old Lance are getting pretty tired. The passenger side where you gotta scoot over has a large and growing hole worn through the leather, and they both look worn in addition to the foam being completely shot.

My local shop has an upholstery shop, so I asked them...well their upholstery guy left and they send it all out now. The quote from the outside shop came back at $6k. So much for the easy button.

Talked to a local guy I've had do boat and motorcycle stuff, and he was thinking $500/seat. Great. Well, he's stopped returning my calls.

Went to another shop, spent a month trying to get a quote out of them, and their shop was destroyed by a Tornado this spring. Scratch that.

Found a shop over in Bloomington that does high end automotive work (think show cars). Their quote was $3400 for the pair. Now...that was for some custom foam work to widen the seat a bit and using sheepskin for the seating surfaces. I'm not sure how much of the cost was in those extras. I might still go that route, but that's a LOT of money for two seats.

The obvious answer is Airtex. I called and asked about leather, and I lost the piece of paper, but I think it was about $2K for both seats. Option two would be their standard fabric with a Covercraft or US Sheepskin cover. That would be more easily replaceable, but I worry about them sliding around. I'd be about $1800 all in for that option.

So, those who have done Airtex...I think the foam is thicker and firmer than stock? I know they add a little side bolster...how about lumbar? That's the number one thing Teresa complains about.

Also wondering if I shouldn't try to find some high back seats with headrests, because the lack of a headrest is her #2 complaint. Personally I kind of like the lack of them.

Would I regret sheepskin? I see all the higher end planes use it. How about the covers? Do they slide around? I suppose I could spray glue them to the fabric...

Don't think I didn't research buying a heavy duty sewing machine and doing it myself. I just don't have time to learn another whole skill set right now.

 

[Clip4]

Maybe check into shop that does boat upholstery.

 

[Gary Ward]

I think airtex is your best bet.
You are plenty qualified to handle the job yourself.
As far as head rests goes. Does your seat frames have the mounts for them?

If not they can be fabricated to the frame when you have it apart.
The airtex foam is built up more than the stock seats were. I think you and your wife would be happy with them. Way better than original.

 

[Jim K]

As far as head rests goes. Does your seat frames have the mounts for them?

good question. I've read that most of the seats have the mounts, but the headrests themselves were optional and not commonly selected...no idea if that's true, but it sounds plausible. Bad part is I'll have to tear into the seats to find out. I did find one on ebay that looks like the right part.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Go down to your local senior center during the sewing group gathering and ask if they know anybody willing/able to do upholstery.

The headliner in my Maule was getting pretty ugly, so asked my mom if she’d sew me a new one. She agreed, so I bought some fabric, took the old one out for a pattern, and dropped the whole works on her lap. couple days later I had a new headliner.

My mechanic had serious doubts that she would be able to sew the seams straight enough to look good, but he was duly impressed with the result. Over the years she had reupholstered several chairs that I’m aware of, and this wasn’t the only time I took advantage of the Mom Sewing Sweatshop.

 

[kep5niner]

Years ago my mom, a lifetime experienced seamstress, answered the call when I asked her to re-canvas the camping enclosure to an old 26’ cruiser boat I had. She used the old tattered canvas for the patterns. She made it happen and it turned out great.

But she said never again…

 

[MauleSkinner]

Years ago my mom, a lifetime experienced seamstress, answered the call when I asked her to re-canvas the camping enclosure to an old 26’ cruiser boat I had. She used the old tattered canvas for the patterns. She made it happen and it turned out great.

But she said never again…

Yeah, you definitely have to be careful about what you ask for. But a $500 or $1000 donation to the quilting club (or whatever group) might make the difference. Keep the money local, make the seniors feel valued…

 

[ateamer]

I’m working on recovering our Cessna’s seats with an Airtex kit. The material looks to be good quality. There are no instructions, though - disconcerting for a first-timer using a DIY kit. If you contact them, they’ll send a link to the support section of their website that has lots of photos of the steps for various kinda of seats. Each type of seat has a different user name and password. They also provide aupport by phone.

The one thing that has been most confounding is how to cut the canvas support material. They provide a big sheet of it, but you’re pretty much on your own with how to make it fit just right. Another company, Sport Aircraft Seats, has DIY kits that include precut webbing and they have how-to videos, but their prices are a lot higher.

 

[baboss]

This place is on my list to consider when it comes time for me. Still a pretty high amount of $$ for DIY but maybe less work than Airtex???

Sport Aircraft Seats: Aircraft Seat Upholstery | Cessna and Piper Seat

Sport Aircraft Seats offers custom seat upholstery for Cessna and Piper aircraft built with FAA approved fabrics for best quality and comfort.

sportaircraftseats.com

 

[WDD]

Suggest AirTech.

Previous owner installed Air Tech seats, carpets, etc. in our plane. The seat material is the vinyl, looks good, holding up well, comfortable, etc.

Installing seat upholstery can be tricky and I'd usually suggest getting a car or furniture upholstery shop to install. But someone like you, yeah - you could do this just as well, if not better. I'd go with Vinyl vs cloth.

I do have advice on ordering from AirTech, based on a large buy I made for our club planes. My advice is to call the AirTech people directly. The website is a bit lacking, what products and options are available is hard to decipher, etc. By calling and chatting with the nice AirTech person you'll get all the information you need on lead times, what you need to install, tools needed, glue (if needed), etc. I I'd also suggest paying the $12 or so to get the sample book mailed to you so you see the real color of what you're ordering.

Be careful though.
If the seats look great, won't you also want to do the side panels? And again, that carpet is getting a bit old....

 

[Ed Haywood]

Leather is worth it. Looks great, feels great, holds up to wear.

AirTex is proven. Should be well within your skill set to install, and they provide all the materials documentation.

If you really want to dial in the comfort, keep looking for a local custom car upholstery shop. If you can pull the seat frame and leave it with them, that helps ensure fitment.

I bought some custom saddle leather at a Tandy's leather shop and had these made by a local car shop.

 

[WDD]

Another thought: From my research, the vinyl options are actually so good now they might be better than the traditional leather.

 

[Jim K]

This place is on my list to consider when it comes time for me. Still a pretty high amount of $$ for DIY but maybe less work than Airtex???

Sport Aircraft Seats: Aircraft Seat Upholstery | Cessna and Piper Seat

Sport Aircraft Seats offers custom seat upholstery for Cessna and Piper aircraft built with FAA approved fabrics for best quality and comfort.

sportaircraftseats.com

Yowza. Their kit is the same price as the shop in Bloomington quoted me. Makes the local guys look reasonable...maybe I better just go that route. I'm still stuck between that and an airtex kit with sheepskin covers. The club Cessna had Airtex seats, and I was really impressed with how nicely made and firm they were.

Suggest AirTech.

Previous owner installed Air Tech seats, carpets, etc. in our plane. The seat material is the vinyl, looks good, holding up well, comfortable, etc.

Installing seat upholstery can be tricky and I'd usually suggest getting a car or furniture upholstery shop to install. But someone like you, yeah - you could do this just as well, if not better. I'd go with Vinyl vs cloth.

I do have advice on ordering from AirTech, based on a large buy I made for our club planes. My advice is to call the AirTech people directly. The website is a bit lacking, what products and options are available is hard to decipher, etc. By calling and chatting with the nice AirTech person you'll get all the information you need on lead times, what you need to install, tools needed, glue (if needed), etc. I I'd also suggest paying the $12 or so to get the sample book mailed to you so you see the real color of what you're ordering.

Be careful though.
If the seats look great, won't you also want to do the side panels? And again, that carpet is getting a bit old....

I assume you meant Airtex? I did find a company called AirTech that makes little bucket seats for ultralights... Actually the rest of my interior is pretty good. Not perfect, but good enough for me. It's just those two front seats that get all the traffic. Well, that and some of the 50 year old plastic is disintegrating. That'll have to be addressed soon too.

 

[WDD]

My bad. Yeah, Airtex.

Honestly, with your skill sets you should be able to do this yourself. And if you start and and determine you just don't want to do it, you could always give the Airtex kit and your seat frames to an upholstery guy; pay for labor only. Then pick up the finished seats and reinstall.

Airtex Interiors - Seat Upholstery

www.airtexinteriors.com

BONUS: We also had the seat frame painted while it was bare.

 

[Ed Haywood]

Another thought: From my research, the vinyl options are actually so good now they might be better than the traditional leather.

The airlines use "ultra leather". Very nice product at a reasonable cost, much better than the hide of the wild @nauga.

 

[nauga]

...much better than the hide of the wild @nauga.

Nauga,
ready and Willem

 

[murphey]

I got the (what is now premium but when I did the seats, it was the regular stuff) cloth seats with all the foam and stuff. Took everything to the local car/boat shop, along with an extra slab of Jim Fixx's multi-layer foam for my seat, and it was done in 3 days. Included new webbing on the frame.

 

[Lucky man]

So the front seats in the old Lance are getting pretty tired. The passenger side where you gotta scoot over has a large and growing hole worn through the leather, and they both look worn in addition to the foam being completely shot.

My local shop has an upholstery shop, so I asked them...well their upholstery guy left and they send it all out now. The quote from the outside shop came back at $6k. So much for the easy button.

Talked to a local guy I've had do boat and motorcycle stuff, and he was thinking $500/seat. Great. Well, he's stopped returning my calls.

Went to another shop, spent a month trying to get a quote out of them, and their shop was destroyed by a Tornado this spring. Scratch that.

Found a shop over in Bloomington that does high end automotive work (think show cars). Their quote was $3400 for the pair. Now...that was for some custom foam work to widen the seat a bit and using sheepskin for the seating surfaces. I'm not sure how much of the cost was in those extras. I might still go that route, but that's a LOT of money for two seats.

The obvious answer is Airtex. I called and asked about leather, and I lost the piece of paper, but I think it was about $2K for both seats. Option two would be their standard fabric with a Covercraft or US Sheepskin cover. That would be more easily replaceable, but I worry about them sliding around. I'd be about $1800 all in for that option.

So, those who have done Airtex...I think the foam is thicker and firmer than stock? I know they add a little side bolster...how about lumbar? That's the number one thing Teresa complains about.

Also wondering if I shouldn't try to find some high back seats with headrests, because the lack of a headrest is her #2 complaint. Personally I kind of like the lack of them.

Would I regret sheepskin? I see all the higher end planes use it. How about the covers? Do they slide around? I suppose I could spray glue them to the fabric...

Don't think I didn't research buying a heavy duty sewing machine and doing it myself. I just don't have time to learn another whole skill set right now.

I love how my airtex seats came out and I had a local upholstery shop help with the final fit. Good luck!!

 

[Lucky man]

My airtex seats are leather and they look nice

 

[Rcmutz]

I went with AirTex premium fabric and faux leather sides. Did it myself with some help by my AnP. Turned out nice. Did not want the leather given the heat and cold we get in Ohio.

 

[Gary Ward]

anotherused the old tattered canvas for the patterns. She made it happen and it turned out great.

But she said never again…

Boat covers are another story. I bought some boat covers from a local guy. It seemed like it took some space and more labor?
My wife went to a trade school her Jr and Sr year of hi school and took custom upholstery. I was dating her then. She has worked at several upholstery jobs over the years.
She is the reason I learned to install pre-sewn upholstery on cars, trucks and a C172 over the years.

My wife is the one who can remove every thread from the old upholstery and use them as patterns to sew new covers together.
That that takes time and skill.

 

[bonefishpete]

Doesn’t fabric flammability ratings come into play especially from say a auto upholstery shop?

 

[WDD]

Doesn’t fabric flammability ratings come into play especially from say an auto upholstery shop?

Yes, which is why you need to supply them the fabric, foam, and yes even the glue which has the appropriate fire certification that the FAA likes.

 

[AA5Bman]

I would strongly recommend going back to the auto upholstery people. Surely there is one that will answer the phone in your area?

I redid my last plane before selling it and it was so easy - and comparatively VERY inexpensive like you found (roughly $500/seat, I also did all the side panels). For reference, I got an “aviation” quote to do the whole plane at $28,000. I think I did new carpets, seats, and side panels for something like $6k.

It took a little bit of elbow grease, mostly in reinstalling - it’s not quite like dropping the keys off at a shop on the field - but MUCH less effort than Airtex for instance. I found out that nearly all fabrics can be fire certified, you just have to pay a $50 testing fee, and example logbook entries can be found online which you can hand-write yourself.

 

[AA5Bman]

Yes, which is why you need to supply them the fabric, foam, and yes even the glue which has the appropriate fire certification that the FAA likes.

FWIW, in my experience, the auto-upholstery shop was familiar with the fire certification topic and I didn't need to supply the fabric. But I did make sure to make clear that it must meet the appropriate fire certification requirements, and they knew exactly what I was talking about and included that requirement when they ordered the fabric.

 

[Stewartb]

Call Daniel at Sport Aircraft Seats. His self-install seat upholstery is top notch.

 

[Stewartb]

Yes, which is why you need to supply them the fabric, foam, and yes even the glue which has the appropriate fire certification that the FAA likes.

Not unless the plane is certificated in part 23. Car3 airplanes don’t require anything special beyond common sense.

 

[WDD]

Not unless the plane is certificated in part 23. Car3 airplanes don’t require anything special beyond common sense.

Copy that. I believe the seats in question Jim is working on are for his certified Lance, not his in-progress RV.

 

[Jim K]

So...opinions vary on the fire cert thing....but the plain language is that for CAR 3 certified airplanes (like mine), which are placarded "no smoking", the materials have to be "flash resistant". The term "flash resistant" is not defined in the FAA regs. The consensus of the internet is that the standard used for auto upholstery suffices. So as long as they're using materials certified for auto installations, you're legal for most older airplanes. Then you just have to make sure your IA is on board.

 

[WDD]

Seats, plastic trim and other "cosmetic" items are allowed to be done by a pilot, no A&P required. Does one even need a log book entry? IMHO, absolutely have the paper work and the fire cert someplace.

Bonus: Did I mention even the glue get's to have its fire certificate?

 

[AA5Bman]

Then you just have to make sure your IA is on board.

I don't think your IA needs to be involved at all - owner maintenance, owner logbook entry. Apparently most (all?) auto fabrics are, in fact, fire qualified, you just have to pay a little extra to get the actual certs.

 

[Ed Haywood]

Seats, plastic trim and other "cosmetic" items are allowed to be done by a pilot, no A&P required.

Yup. 14 CFR Part 43 Appendix A:

(c) Preventative Maintenance
...

(11) Repairing upholstery and decorative furnishings of the cabin, cockpit, or balloon basket interior when the repairing does not require disassembly of any primary structure or operating system or interfere with an operating system or affect the primary structure of the aircraft​

Does one even need a log book entry?

Yes. Owner PM should be logged using your PPL number.

 

[Mikey JB]

Whatever you do, do NOT have the seat widened!
As an A&P I have dealt with several seats that have been "expanded"
Removal/installation now is extremely difficult and sometimes the
seat binds up on the side panel!!! DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bell206]

Does one even need a log book entry?

Yes. Part 43.9. All mx work must be recorded.

I don't think your IA needs to be involved at all - owner maintenance, owner logbook entry. Apparently most (all?) auto fabrics are, in fact, fire qualified, you just have to pay a little extra to get the actual certs.

Depends more at annual time whether they'll accept the recover or material used. I found if one stuck to the Part 25 standard, whether required or not, there was no issue at all and the material vendors and auto shops I used never had any problem getting that Part 25 level document as well.

 

[Stewartb]

A Lance is a CAR3 airplane. From CAR3 regs-

§ 3.388 Fire precautions—(a) Cabin


interiors. Only materials which are flash-


resistant shall be used. In compartments where


smoking is to be permitted, the materials of the


cabin lining, floors, upholstery, and furnishings


shall be flame-resistant. Such compartments shall


be equipped with an adequate number of self-


contained ash trays. All other compartments


shall be placarded against smoking.

 

[pfarber]

Option 3: buy a $200 singer off ebay, practice, then make your own.

 

[WDD]

Got it. No hot boxing in the Piper.

 

[frfly172]

I’m using the sheepskin covers ,will eventually upgrade in the near future,the Sheeskin works well for my Cessna 150

 

[AlphaPilotFlyer]

my 1969 c172 seat covers were shot and ordered some seat covers online based on seat deminsions....most cost about $50..... found one that fit perfectly and did a quick burn test for self extinguishing and fumes.... I installed it and installed the oe rear side plastic cover over it as original and fit great.

heres photo. it's functional and cost effective and looks way better. will eventually have car reupholster redo it right, including foam, using SAE cert automotive materials meeting faa comparative basis (you can get samples to burn test and there's an faa AC to do this). ... something worth considering for old planes.

 

[Tools]

Option 3: buy a $200 singer off ebay, practice, then make your own.

Only it was $100 for the singer! A 15-91, bought the leather for the seats at Oshkosh. ‘46 Chief.