Runup in parking?

Lachlan

Lachlan

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Lachlan
I went flying this morning and noticed a lot (dozen plus) of a certain aircraft tied down at transient parking. Nice looking, great paint, shiny, and all the same manufacturer. As I pre-flighted the Citabria I heard one of them crank over. I looked up and noticed that the dude didn't even bother pulling out of parking. Fired it up right at his tie-down spot! He idled for a while, presumably listening to ATIS, and then blasted the two airplanes behind him as he pulled out of parking. Another guy starts up without moving from his tie-down area, too. Did his full run-up right in the tie-down spot. All he did was pull chocks and ties. Absolutely BLASTING other aircraft. I've seen 'pilots' do this before in this same type. I may be sheltered, but I've not once witnessed other types do this. Really poor airmanship, in my humble opinion, regardless of aircraft type.
 
I don't know if it qualifies as poor airmanship but it definitely is a sign of a rude, inconsiderate buffoon deserving of having his butt kicked up and down the ramp. I've seen it happen before a few times but not necessarily affiliated with aircraft of the same manufacturer.
 
The only time I'll do the run up in the parking area is if I'm at a Class B airport and they don't have a run up area. Even when I do the run up in the ramp area I always make sure I'm not blocking or blasting anyone.
 
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Students who were trained that way by CFIs who didn't give a chit?
 
As a new pilot that uses a very small fbo what is the normal procedure ? In this scenario do you pull the plane by hand or is it ok to start it and taxi away to do your run Up?
 
There isn't anything inherently wrong with a runup in a parking area... it's more about what's around and behind you. In general "runup areas" are clear of most issues but ever there one still needs to pay attention.
 
Very inconsiderate. It's one thing if no other airplanes are behind you. Should be done in the run up area or on the taxiway, as long as no one is behind you. No taxiway? Then one has to do it somewhere other than on the runway. But manually turn the plane or something similar to prevent kickin' up ****e on someone else's airplane.
 
Different people do things differently I guess. I wouldn't do a run up on the ramp, but I've never pulled a plane out of line on the ramp before starting. And none of the CFIs (some of whom are very high-time pro-pilots) or other pilots I've flown with have ever suggested it. Maybe this is just an issue with crowded ramps or back-to-back rows, neither of which describe many airports around here.
 
mscard88 said:
Very inconsiderate. It's one thing if no other airplanes are behind you. Should be done in the run up area or on the taxiway, as long as no one is behind you. No taxiway? Then one has to do it somewhere other than on the runway. But manually turn the plane or something similar to prevent kickin' up ****e on someone else's airplane.
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This. There's always a better place to do a runup then a parking space with other planes behind you. If there isn't a runup area use a taxiway, the exit from the ramp to a taxiway or a place on the ramp away from other planes. If at a towered airport you can always ask ground where they would prefer you to do the runup.
 
MAKG1 said:
It's OK to power out of a parking space IF (and only if) there is nothing you can blast by doing so. Sometimes that happens. Usually not.
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True...I guess I assumed the question was related to the OP.
 
I think it just depends on the airport, as to if it's appropriate for a run-up on the ramp. I saw a guy on Youtube where it looked like from the video he started his cherokee while it was still in the hangar and taxied straight out from it. Different from what I would do, but I guess it worked for him.
 
Man, GA must be doing way better in other parts of the country. I can't think of an airport anywhere around here where there are more than one or two planes on the ramp at any time. I've always started in position and taxied out from there and did the run-up at the end of the runway.
 
Ryanb said:
I think it just depends on the airport, as to if it's appropriate for a run-up on the ramp. I saw a guy on Youtube where it looked like from the video he started his cherokee while it was still in the hangar and taxied straight out from it. Different from what I would do, but I guess it worked for him.
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I saw a guy do that with his Mooney once. Ended up owning two halves of a Mooney.
 
This was @ KAPA and it was very busy. Lots of airplanes tied down back to back, side by side. GA is indeed very much alive and thriving here. There are several designated runup areas here.
 
We had a village idiot who had a 172 at IAD when I had the Navion there. The guy never flew the plane but he would come out once a month and sit in the plane, still tied down in the tie down and run the thing at high power for 20-30 minutes. I finally had a candid chat with him:

1. It's horrendously impolite to do this. High power runups blow crap even from the relatively clean ramp at other planes. If he wants to do runups, there's lots of places you can taxi to (in fact, without even entering a movement area).

2. It's damaging his own airplane. It's not getting the oil uniformly up to a good temperature to boil off the water, but is likely overheating some parts of the engine. Engines are designed to have airflow over them. A few seconds to do the mag check or cycle the prop is one thing, but 20 minutes at a standstill at high power is bad.

I asked him why he just didn't fly. Dulles in the evenings was pretty quiet. He could go up, do a circuit and come back and accumulate 30 minutes of time in the air. If he was really concerned, there were likely lots of people who'd be willing to put time on his plane for him that would be better than running it up in the tiedown.

He agreed with what I told him, but I don't think it changed his behavior at all.
 
I agree, you runup the engine in designated areas or an area where the blast zone is clear. As for using power to taxi out of and away from the tiedown spot, I do this 98% of the time. Haven't seen a lot of places where this is an issue (most tiedowns I use are taxi through types) but they definitely exist. Common sense and courtesy... On the other hand, if I'm out on a GA ramp, I expect to feel a little propwash occasionally. Don't think anything of it.
 
Use just enough power to get the plane inching out of the tiedown and away from other aircraft. In our 172/180 HP, 900 RPM was enough, and 600-650 to taxi across the ramp.
 
Cooter143 said:
Man, GA must be doing way better in other parts of the country. I can't think of an airport anywhere around here where there are more than one or two planes on the ramp at any time. I've always started in position and taxied out from there and did the run-up at the end of the runway.
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Same here. The only time I would pull the plane out by hand is if, for some reason, I might clip something powering it out. But again, I also don't see anything inherently wrong with running up on the ramp as long as you aren't blasting something. I generally wouldn't do it though, I prefer to have my engine at least in a semi-warmed up condition before doing a run up, if possible.
 
I start up and taxi out of tie down sometimes. Sometimes I don't. I don't do anything rude or damaging to others. Sometimes just "rocking" the airplane of the "dimples" that get in asphalt from planes always parking in the same spot before start up is all it takes.
 
Lachlan said:
I went flying this morning and noticed a lot (dozen plus) of a certain aircraft tied down at transient parking. Nice looking, great paint, shiny, and all the same manufacturer. As I pre-flighted the Citabria I heard one of them crank over. I looked up and noticed that the dude didn't even bother pulling out of parking. Fired it up right at his tie-down spot! He idled for a while, presumably listening to ATIS, and then blasted the two airplanes behind him as he pulled out of parking. Another guy starts up without moving from his tie-down area, too. Did his full run-up right in the tie-down spot. All he did was pull chocks and ties. Absolutely BLASTING other aircraft. I've seen 'pilots' do this before in this same type. I may be sheltered, but I've not once witnessed other types do this. Really poor airmanship, in my humble opinion, regardless of aircraft type.
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Come on now. What were they? I'm in the mood for a little "model bashing"
 
This is honestly the first reference I've ever seen to pulling the plane out of a parking row to start up, outside of places like Oshkosh. I've never been taught, witnessed, or done it that way myself, even when backed into rows "T-hangar" style. I would never do my run-up there, but starting up and taxi out? Yes.
 
edo2000 said:
I agree, you runup the engine in designated areas or an area where the blast zone is clear. As for using power to taxi out of and away from the tiedown spot, I do this 98% of the time. Haven't seen a lot of places where this is an issue (most tiedowns I use are taxi through types) but they definitely exist. Common sense and courtesy... On the other hand, if I'm out on a GA ramp, I expect to feel a little propwash occasionally. Don't think anything of it.
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If there is an airplane next to you or behind you, you will blast it when powering out of a tiedown. This is fairly common on busy and moderate ramps. Not on deserted ones (usually).

Also look for hangar doors. Starting an engine with an open hangar directly behind you is rude.

I find it necessary to pull the airplane out to start about half the time.

At the Palo Alto CAP, there is never another airplane behind or next to the parking spot, but there is a golf course fairway. Golfers don't like stray blasts much either.

In a few other crowded ramps, powering out of the space puts you at a higher risk of ramp rash. Some of them get pretty tight, and you really want a wing walker or at least much slower speeds when pulling out of the space. Much safer to do with the tow bar.
 
Auburn2002 said:
This is honestly the first reference I've ever seen to pulling the plane out of a parking row to start up, outside of places like Oshkosh. I've never been taught, witnessed, or done it that way myself, even when backed into rows "T-hangar" style. I would never do my run-up there, but starting up and taxi out? Yes.
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No one starts up and taxis across the tie-down cables at this airport. You just never see that. Everyone pulls out of parking and turns in the direction of taxi before engine start. There are lots of parked aircraft all over the airport. (The aircraft involved in this great crime against aviation were Cirrus.)
 
It must be a busy ramp vs empty ramp. No run up but start and taxi out is very common in the airports I frequent and was trained at. When it's you and 2 other planes not near each other it isn't an issue. Also you don't push to the wall either as you just want to get moving. Maybe 1100 rpm tops. Do the run up at the designated spot or at end of your taxi destination. Only once I have completed run up on the ramp and hat was due to uncontrolled field with no other place as the "taxi" was a 10' long stretch of blacktop between ramp and middle of strip. I am not going to sit on the runway to do a run up.
 
Razorxp said:
As a new pilot that uses a very small fbo what is the normal procedure ? In this scenario do you pull the plane by hand or is it ok to start it and taxi away to do your run Up?
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Pull the plane out of its parked position and into the "alley" between rows of tiedowns so that any prop blast will not affect other aircraft. Then taxi to a position where you can do a full runup without bothering anyone. The situation described by the OP is blatant disregard for other pilots.

Bob Gardner
 
What Bob and MAKG1 said. You shouldnt start up while in parked wing to wing, especially with planes behind you. Its inconsiderate and you have just blasted any loose rocks, FOD, etc into them a nice velocity. Even if there was no FOD, you placed unnecessary stress on the control locks, or worse battered the controls against the stops if they werent locked.
It takes less than 2-3 min to get tow bar, pull plane out into row, turn it, replace tow bar, climb in and start. When did you people that werent taught this learn? Is it something with newer CFI's not teaching it? I learned in'94 and it was taught from day 1 not to start in nested rows of planes.
 
ChemGuy said:
What Bob and MAKG1 said. You shouldnt start up while in parked wing to wing, especially with planes behind you. Its inconsiderate and you have just blasted any loose rocks, FOD, etc into them a nice velocity. Even if there was no FOD, you placed unnecessary stress on the control locks, or worse battered the controls against the stops if they werent locked.
It takes less than 2-3 min to get tow bar, pull plane out into row, turn it, replace tow bar, climb in and start. When did you people that werent taught this learn? Is it something with newer CFI's not teaching it? I learned in'94 and it was taught from day 1 not to start in nested rows of planes.
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I think we might be talking about different things, here. I was "taught" at a reasonably busy municipal field in Alaska. We always started and taxied out of spots , using minimal power, and being aware of surroundings. We were parked wing-to-wing. There typically was not an aircraft directly behind. I'm located at a much less busy field in NM now. It's definitely a non issue. :)
 
I've was starting and taxiing out of a tie down spot for a couple years(before I got my own airplane and hangar). This huge blast that's being talked about is very minimal in a small piston single at low rpm. I can move out of the spot at idle(900-1000 rpm) without any issue, airplanes next to/behind me or not.

Now doing a runup in the parking area, yeah that is very inconsiderate as well as potentially damaging to other aircraft.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
I've was starting and taxiing out of a tie down spot for a couple years(before I got my own airplane and hangar). This huge blast that's being talked about is very minimal in a small piston single at low rpm. I can move out of the spot at idle(900-1000 rpm) without any issue, airplanes next to/behind me or not.

Now doing a runup in the parking area, yeah that is very inconsiderate as well as potentially damaging to other aircraft.
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Have you stood behind a light single as the engine started?

I don't recommend it. Particularly if it's an engine that requires some effort to start.

Yes, if it's done perfectly, there will be LIGHT damage (not zero -- it's equivalent to a strong gust of wind, and an unsecured yoke or poorly tied down aircraft can slam pretty hard). If done haphazardly like almost everyone does, you'll blast it hard at least momentarily. Not to mention the increased risk of ramp rash.

We can certainly hear the hangar doors slam against the tracks at Sacramento with a light-touch start if we line it up poorly. Which explains why the owners really don't like us to start there.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
I've was starting and taxiing out of a tie down spot for a couple years(before I got my own airplane and hangar). This huge blast that's being talked about is very minimal in a small piston single at low rpm. I can move out of the spot at idle(900-1000 rpm) without any issue, airplanes next to/behind me or not.

Now doing a runup in the parking area, yeah that is very inconsiderate as well as potentially damaging to other aircraft.
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While not perfect, that can be done with minimal chance of damage. if you started up, kept RPM low and then pulledd out and went off to do checklist, run up etc personally I'm OK with it. I dont do it, but its not the end of the world.
In practice I usually see a guy, call him Capt. Lazy, startup about 2300rpm, back it down to maybe 1700, than sit there for 3-5 minutes. While the planes and control surfaces around or behind him move, vibrate, shudder, etc. While Capt Lazy sits in there adjusting his seat, headset, checking weather, fiddling with freqs, etc. All things he could do without blasting everyone else's plane if he pulled the plane out into the row and turned it, before starting.
 
Are all the planes owned by the same person/company?

If so, it really says a lot about what they think of their own stuff.

It's bad practice, but in this case they're only risking damage to their own stuff. Do it at another airport, however, and most likely they'll answer to someone....
 
fiveoboy01 said:
I've was starting and taxiing out of a tie down spot for a couple years(before I got my own airplane and hangar). This huge blast that's being talked about is very minimal in a small piston single at low rpm. I can move out of the spot at idle(900-1000 rpm) without any issue, airplanes next to/behind me or not.
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I agree; if done properly it shouldn't be a big issue.
 
wsuffa said:
Are all the planes owned by the same person/company?

If so, it really says a lot about what they think of their own stuff.

It's bad practice, but in this case they're only risking damage to their own stuff. Do it at another airport, however, and most likely they'll answer to someone....
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It was a Cirrus fly-in. More like a Circus, in practice. Certainly a bunch of clowns showed up.
 
This is what our parking at my airport looks like. Generally only the flight schools planes are parked here and generally only facing the taxiway as shown with the blue arrows. From my lesson's so far, we start up and taxi out even with other planes tied down next to us. Haven't had any facing the other direction yet to know what they do then.

Would I ever do a run-up there? Hell no. But we do taxi out.

Side note: there is a funny artifact at the other tie down spots like someone did a really poor job of photoshop to hide them but the image was straight from Google Maps. Weird.

upload_2016-6-20_18-12-22.png
 
When operating from tiedowns in NoCal and SoCal the rule was to pull the mains forward of the tie rope, jump in start and go. Not to pull into the lane.

It was explained that it reduces the power needed to get out of the occassional 'divot' the mains can produce, and eliminate getting caught in the wire. The reduced power would surely help the guys behind.
 
rolivi said:
When operating from tiedowns in NoCal and SoCal the rule was to pull the mains forward of the tie rope, jump in start and go. Not to pull into the lane.

It was explained that it reduces the power needed to get out of the occassional 'divot' the mains can produce, and eliminate getting caught in the wire. The reduced power would surely help the guys behind.
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That's very far from a universal rule in NorCal.
 
MAKG1 said:
That's very far from a universal rule in NorCal.
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Concord and Vacavile to be precise.

Not sure if this thread concerns transient parking which can be a wholly different experience.
 
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