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Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by ktup-flyer, Nov 7, 2017.
Yea that too. A lot of "wow" moments in there for sure.
Y'know, it's one thing to risk your own neck, but placing other people's lives at risk, who have no part in your insanity, goes beyond irresponsible all the way to criminal disregard for the lives and safety of others.
I no longer feel the least bit sorry for this jackass; we're better off without him.
As James references the “above 5 to stay alive” motto from Ag Aviation I can tell you it’s true. When I’m working the ideal spray height is 8-10’ above the crop. That said if I’m not working you can bet my butt is above 500’. There’s lots of stuff just waiting to be hit and lots of it is hard to see. The low level ****ery depicted on the icon videos is not a smart way to operate
11 feet... at 92 knots! Geez...
Hate to speak ill of the deceased, but that was just stupid. Far too many risks taken without incident probably emboldened him... until the one fatal one.
I just don't see how Icon couldn't be held complicit since their marketing videos all showcase this kind of flying.
No surprises here
Over open water (the ocean), I have no problem with the occasional planned low altitude run. I'm talking about basically level flight at low altitude where the only risk should be you vs the seabirds. Doing that stuff over a lake with boats, points, houses, etc. (and birds). is beyond my risk tolerance.
And taking a bird low level, yeah no thanks, reaction time and with how remote you likley are, good chance that could go fatal, you don't even see the guys in AK flying along that low, especially for "the thrill".
Oven open water or over land, 500' is a good limit
Plus landing in the ocean for most floatplane and seaplanes will often have enough chop to take even a 208 or similar out.
Icon was targeting this very type of buyer, interested in the "exhilaration" of flying the "apex product" in the jet ski world, while not having to worry about "the usual metrics of speed, range, payload, altitude, and complex cockpits." "Utility be damned."
Again, Icon's now deleted marketing article from their website.
Kirk Hawkins [CEO and founder of startup ICON Aircraft] knew the mission was risky. So like any commander trained by the military, he readied his troops for the potential hostile forces they faced. “Before we launched, I briefed our team to be prepared,” Kirk, a former F-16 pilot, recounts. “I said, ‘Look, this industry has seen acts like this before. Just be prepared for some aggressive criticism.” “Aggressive criticism” may not equal the hazards Kirk confronted during his Air Force or airline flying careers. But the flak could have compromised the bold rescue operation Kirk set for his team: reviving general aviation with a new paradigm of recreational flying and a product they believed could fulfill that promise...
“ICON’s mission is not so much about transportation,” Kirk told the crowd. “It’s not about the usual metrics of speed, range, payload, altitude, and complex cockpits. It’s about getting you out there and interacting with your world.”
Kirk explained that ICON’s goal was to create a product that delivered the pure joy and exhilaration of flying, an experience that had been lost as airplanes became utilitarian tools. So rather than compete with other aircraft, the A5 was designed to compete in the world of powersports, to be the apex product in the realm of ATVs, motorcycles, watercraft, snowmobiles, and the like. Utility be damned.
As Steen Strand, the company’s co-founder and chief operating officer puts it, “No one goes to buy a jet ski and says, ‘I want to buy a jet ski, and I need it to get over to there.’ They get a jet ski because they want to have fun.”
Yeah Cirrus needs to buy this company and take the business/marketing/training and bring it into the modern cirrus fold of doing things, maybe also bring the costs down.
Icon might put up a fight in court, probably will, but the insurance industry is going to eat them alive.
Keep in mind that's GPS altitude and could be off by as much as 50-75 feet or more. Still low, but not that low. Now where's that picture of the T-6's dragging their wheels in the water?
certain about uncertainty
In formation no less.
Legend has it that "Snort" Snodgrass drug his hook through the water with a Tomcat. Like to see a pic of that.
Guessing the T6 guys had a wee bit more experience than some baseball player.
Also waterskiing occasionally bites even the experienced guys, some low time guy with nearly zero PIC seaplane or backcountry time, dude straight straight played with fire.
Also if this was his attitude during his SES addon, shame on the CFI who put his name and numbers in that guys logbook.
With that kind of error, it could have been even lower, as well.
Yes it could. So with all that uncertainty, why base conclusions on it until we know more about it?
I knew 3 people who beat that record, all in separate attempts. There have been many more. I'm sensitive to the risks of low-altitude maneuvering over water.
I'm also not impressed by it, regardless of the experience of the pilot(s)
and his break-X
Not much. It's unlikely he was 50 feet underwater.
What conclusions are you referring to?
Don't forget that there's horizontal error in the GPS as well. He could easily have been 80 feet from houses instead of 75....
(Note to the literal minded forum members - this is sarcasm.)
Y'know, given the degree of irresponsible behavior the pilot displayed, I'm a bit anxious to see a toxicology report...
My guess is testosterone off the charts.
...or cocaine out the nose.
There you go.
Reminds one of the John Denver crash...
The drugs probably contributed, but they didn't change him as a person.
It's like what someone once said about carrying, if you can't be trusted to carry a gun after a drink or two, you probably shouldn't carry at all.
Drugs and booze don't go well for aviation, obviously, but it wasn't some drug that made him fly low and fast, just read his own words, it was the personality and choice to fly like a "fighter pilot".
Probably morphine for old sports injuries, ambien to help him sleep. Then speed to offset the drowsiness from both.
Wonder if he was doctor shopping. Hard to believe a physician would prescribe that soup, but I don’t really know.
Y’know, I really wish the FAA would come up with some catchy acronym for pilots to use in evaluating themselves for fitness to fly. Something to remind pilots to think about Illness, Medications, Stress, Alcohol,...
That would make this sort of problem nearly impossible, right?
Mostly proves that catchy acronyms don't mean crap. Anyone who uses that catchy acronym probably has enough common sense not to to this. And yes, I have been guilty.
Ambien has caused several Kennedys to make poor decisions.
Is that what it was? .....
According to them.
Saw another report that also listed Prozac in his system.
Sometimes I find it amazing just how messed up so many outwardly successful people can be. Makes me glad I’m a failure.
I wonder if this is an organic problem with this guy, or a case of teams prescribing to make these guys feel great all the time. I don't know about the rest of you but I've found life has many disappointments, angry moments, sadnesses and sometimes you don't feel great, it all makes me appreciate the good times even more. I can't imagine being on these drugs without having a verified illness.
Obviously, all those drugs have legitimate uses for real problems. It’s the combination of all of them I find surprising. Would a doctor really prescribe that mix?
Did he have an active medical, or was he flying Sport privileges on a DL?
So, what kind of drugs were the people on who filmed it and made no effort to check on the occupants after the crash?
Drowning was apparently a contributing factor.
People really suck sometimes.
Both were "celebrities" but John Denver at least wasn't doing and "show off" maneuvering close to ground, that's not the reason why he crashed.
As a pharmacist a can say with absolute certainty doctors do prescribe that mix, commonly.
Whether I would advise a patient to operate a airplane while under the influence of it at all is another story, as I think the FAA has the right idea considering they are all restricted meds when getting a medical
Not necessarily a single doctor. Poly-drug abusers with money tend to have multiple doctors to feed the different 'tracks' of their addiction.
Really? Commonly?! Wow. Speed and Prozac seems like a bad mix.
Plus morphine? I wonder if he was legal to drive a car, let alone fly a plane.