Rotax clone from China?

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It is supposed to be a 100% clone due to expired patents or something along these lines … of course there are
always questions about manufacturing/qa process differences …
 
watch it at 2x, did I miss the price?
 
Not much of a GA market in China. These clones are probably going into Chinese and Russian drones.

The Iranians have been getting their Rotax drone engines from our friends and loyal allies in Canada, then selling the drones to Russia so they can be shot at our other friends in Ukraine. It's a weird world.... :rolleyes2:
 
Rtv on valve covers and both sides of a gasket on the fuel pump. Yucky and a pita to take apart and clean if it needs service.

Screenshot_20240407-204101.png
 
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Yeah, I’ve seen those advertised. The newest owner of Fisher Flying Products is selling them.

Hard pass. I trust Austrian engineering, manufacturing, and QA. I’ve dealt with far too many Chinese clones that get the “look” pretty much right… and nothing else.
 
Half Fast said:
Not much of a GA market in China. These clones are probably going into Chinese and Russian drones.

The Iranians have been getting their Rotax drone engines from our friends and loyal allies in Canada, then selling the drones to Russia so they can be shot at our other friends in Ukraine. It's a weird world.... :rolleyes2:
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Catch 22 all over again.
 
Racerx said:
shop.ckd.aero

CKD ZS Engine

shop.ckd.aero shop.ckd.aero

15k for the 100hp version. What's the 912 go for? 22k?
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$22,248.00 + shipping

ROTAX 912 ULS Engine - 100hp - New ROTAX Engines - ROTAX Engines & Parts

<p>ASTM compliant. In comparison to the 80 HP version of the Rotax 912 series the 100 HP product line offers more power while keeping the weight. This engine series offers a time between overhauls of 2,000 hrs and the best power to weight rati
www.leadingedgeairfoils.com www.leadingedgeairfoils.com

But, where does one buy parts for said CDK ZS engine?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
$22,248.00 + shipping

ROTAX 912 ULS Engine - 100hp - New ROTAX Engines - ROTAX Engines & Parts

<p>ASTM compliant. In comparison to the 80 HP version of the Rotax 912 series the 100 HP product line offers more power while keeping the weight. This engine series offers a time between overhauls of 2,000 hrs and the best power to weight rati
www.leadingedgeairfoils.com www.leadingedgeairfoils.com

But, where does one buy parts for said CDK ZS engine?
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You don't, you buy another engine :lol:
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
$22,248.00 + shipping

ROTAX 912 ULS Engine - 100hp - New ROTAX Engines - ROTAX Engines & Parts

<p>ASTM compliant. In comparison to the 80 HP version of the Rotax 912 series the 100 HP product line offers more power while keeping the weight. This engine series offers a time between overhauls of 2,000 hrs and the best power to weight rati
www.leadingedgeairfoils.com www.leadingedgeairfoils.com

But, where does one buy parts for said CDK ZS engine?
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From a CKD service center....that doesn't sound like it exists yet.

Interestingly it sounds like they're trying to sell there parts as drop in replacements for current rotax owners. Like superior and millennium do for lycoming.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
$22,248.00 + shipping

ROTAX 912 ULS Engine - 100hp - New ROTAX Engines - ROTAX Engines & Parts

<p>ASTM compliant. In comparison to the 80 HP version of the Rotax 912 series the 100 HP product line offers more power while keeping the weight. This engine series offers a time between overhauls of 2,000 hrs and the best power to weight rati
www.leadingedgeairfoils.com www.leadingedgeairfoils.com

But, where does one buy parts for said CDK ZS engine?
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No parts, just swap it out with a new one
 
Yup, and comparing this to their numbers should be all the evidence needed as to why it will never happen. Until someone tears one of these down and shows me it's within tolerances and equivalent metallurgy of an actual Rotax I will never trust one. Put a Chinese clone engine on a lawnmower? Sure, no problem, cheapest thing I can find. Aircraft I'm flying? Nooooope.
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
Yup, and comparing this to their numbers should be all the evidence needed as to why it will never happen. Until someone tears one of these down and shows me it's within tolerances and equivalent metallurgy of an actual Rotax I will never trust one. Put a Chinese clone engine on a lawnmower? Sure, no problem, cheapest thing I can find. Aircraft I'm flying? Nooooope.
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Isn’t this engine only for experimental? And people puts all sorts of engines?

If it ever goes to the certified market I think you’d be assured? Although even then with our low numbers any new engine will take a while to iron out..
 
SebIp said:
Isn’t this engine only for experimental? And people puts all sorts of engines?
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Yes? So? There's a lot of crap people hang off the front of planes I wouldn't fly behind.
SebIp said:
If it ever goes to the certified market I think you’d be assured? Although even then with our low numbers any new engine will take a while to iron out..
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I am extremely confident saying this would never meet the requirements for certified aircraft.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Are you that unfamiliar with the patent system?
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What does the patent system have to do with regulatory approval?

I can Xerox-engineer a copy of any product from an expired patent drawing, sure, but it still has to get UL/ANSI/IEC/IEEE/FAA/.... certification of the finished product, along with the manufacturing process and supply chain.

If their castings are porous, metal doesn't meet spec, or their machining isn't within tolerance, they will not get certified (I hope).
 
StraightnLevel said:
What does the patent system have to do with regulatory approval?

I can Xerox-engineer a copy of any product from an expired patent drawing, sure, but it still has to get UL/ANSI/IEC/IEEE/FAA/.... certification of the finished product, along with the manufacturing process and supply chain.

If their castings are porous, metal doesn't meet spec, or their machining isn't within tolerance, they will not get certified (I hope).
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I’m no fan of the Chinese government system, but I rather suspect they are capable of making a good copy of the engine if this company’s QC is up to it. I suspect that will end up depending on how badly their management wants to gain a good reputation in the US market. I for one would be happy to see them meet certification standards.
 
RyanShort1 said:
I’m no fan of the Chinese government system, but I rather suspect they are capable of making a good copy of the engine if this company’s QC is up to it. I suspect that will end up depending on how badly their management wants to gain a good reputation in the US market. I for one would be happy to see them meet certification standards.
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As a card-carrying American manufacturing executive, I whole-heartedly disagree. We need a middle class if we are to maintain a successful economy that supports everyone in the nation, and manufacturing capital equipment here in the US supports that middle class.

This is going to sound harsh, but cheerleading for off-shore "inexpensive" luxury items manufactured by slave-wage labor is, IMO, self-centered and short-sighted. Those of us who can afford luxuries like airplanes have a responsibility to pay a fair price that supports the people who build them for us.
 
StraightnLevel said:
As a card-carrying American manufacturing executive, I whole-heartedly disagree. We need a middle class if we are to maintain a successful economy that supports everyone in the nation, and manufacturing capital equipment here in the US supports that middle class.

This is going to sound harsh, but cheerleading for off-shore "inexpensive" luxury items manufactured by slave-wage labor is, IMO, self-centered and short-sighted. Those of us who can afford luxuries like airplanes have a responsibility to pay a fair price that supports the people who build them for us.
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Championing the middle class and a fairer economy? Careful buddy, I argued the same thing in a thread about how out of reach these luxuries are to regular Americans even as CEOs can afford this more easily than ever. I got flamed for being an anti-capitalist.

In fact, pretty sure you were one of the guys piling on…
 
DeadStick said:
Championing the middle class and a fairer economy? Careful buddy, I argued the same thing in a thread about how out of reach these luxuries are to regular Americans even as CEOs can afford this more easily than ever. I got flamed for being an anti-capitalist.

In fact, pretty sure you were one of the guys piling on…
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"Fair" is BS that has no place in economic and financial metrics. Supporting an economic competitor, however, has a real impact on our entire nation and everyone in it.

Getting pi$$y about someone else's paycheck is in the same vein as trying to buy the cheapest possible product, ignoring the effect it has on our community and nation. In effect, it's more of the same sort of selfish nonsense that you got flamed for in the other thread.
 
StraightnLevel said:
As a card-carrying American manufacturing executive, I whole-heartedly disagree. We need a middle class if we are to maintain a successful economy that supports everyone in the nation, and manufacturing capital equipment here in the US supports that middle class.

This is going to sound harsh, but cheerleading for off-shore "inexpensive" luxury items manufactured by slave-wage labor is, IMO, self-centered and short-sighted. Those of us who can afford luxuries like airplanes have a responsibility to pay a fair price that supports the people who build them for us.
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Oh, don’t go there. That just makes you look presumptive.

I FULLY support indigenous US manufacturing… but Rotax isn’t American, either. Also, not everyone in China is a slave worker and your “fair price” comment really sounds like you don’t like competition for price. We badly need to fix things in this country so we CAN compete on price.
 
StraightnLevel said:
"Fair" is BS that has no place in economic and financial metrics. Supporting an economic competitor, however, has a real impact on our entire nation and everyone in it.

Getting pi$$y about someone else's paycheck is in the same vein as trying to buy the cheapest possible product, ignoring the effect it has on our community and nation. In effect, it's more of the same sort of selfish nonsense that you got flamed for in the other thread.
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LOL, my friend, you are getting pi$$sy about someone else's paycheck. The only difference between us is that I am pi$$y at the U.S. CEO's who made those decisions to off-shore those jobs and then increased their own average pay over 350x in the past 40 years. You are pi$$y at the people in those countries doing the work for a fraction of the pay a U.S. worker would get.

Take a step back, calm yourself down, and you will realize we are both arguing the same point: the middle class in America has been sold out so someone else can make a profit. You just disagree with me about who that someone else is.
 
RyanShort1 said:
your “fair price” comment really sounds like you don’t like competition for price. We badly need to fix things in this country so we CAN compete on price.
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No, I'm fine with competition, as long as it's a level playing field. Have a look at Janet Yellen's recent comments re: China dumping manufactured products.

Yes, there are things that need to be fixed here, but some of our higher costs have to do with labor and environmental laws that we need to accept and be willing to fund as consumers.
 
An open market is ultimately not controlled by sellers, it is controlled by buyers. If you don’t like something or how it was produced, do your part and don’t buy it. Country of origin info is mandatory on products sold in the US for a reason. If you and others buy it anyway, it is you who will eventually pay the price for funding bad behavior. You can then point fingers at those who provided the product you bought using the cheapest legal labor source they could find and somebody else’s designs but it won’t do a thing and they will cry all the way to the bank, with your money in hand.
 
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RyanShort1 said:
I suspect that will end up depending on how badly their management wants to gain a good reputation in the US market.
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FYI: its more than just if the "company’s QC is up to it." The Chinese CAAC has historically been unable to meet international aviation standards. Chinese aircraft OEMs have gone as far to incorporate as many "western" aviation components in their designs as possible to win such international approvals to no avail. Their most recent attempt at bi-lateral international certification is with the Comac C919 airliner. The EASA has accepted their application as before but time will tell if this attempt ends up as the others. Denied. For some reason they prefer to follow their path vs the established path.
 
Tusayan said:
Country of origin info is mandatory on products sold in the US for a reason. If you and others buy it anyway, it is you who will eventually pay the price for funding bad behavior.
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This, precisely.
 
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