Rocky Mtn LSA Expo

zaitcev

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Pete Zaitcev
I am contemplating flying in to so-called "Rocky Mountain LSA Expo", to be held at Front Range Airport (FTG) on May 14, 2011. It is going to be my first long cross-country as a newly-minted Private Pilot. My Denver sectional says there's a Class G/D cutout in the Denver Bravo, surrounding FRG, but of course it's a perfect opportunity to attempt transitioning Class B, too. So, the question is, aside from getting a Denver VFR chart, is there anything else to think about? Or, rather, any gotchas?

-- Pete
 
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I am contemplating flying in to so-called "Rocky Mountain LSA Expo", to be held at Front Range Airport (FRG) on May 14, 2011. It is going to be my first long cross-country as a newly-minted Private Pilot. My Denver sectional says there's a Class G cutout in the Denver Bravo, surrounding FRG, but of course it's a perfect opportunity to attempt transitioning Class B, too. So, the question is, aside from getting a Denver VFR chart, is there anything else to think about? Or, rather, any gotchas?
There are at least three pilots here based at FTG (FRG is in NY). I'm sure they'll chime in. I'll just point out that there is a cutout in the Denver Class B but I wouldn't exactly call it a Class G cutout because Front Range has a tower.

Maybe we could have a POA get together. :)
 
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Pete - where are you flying from? That will determine what your route should be and what "gotchas" you may run into. Clark, Alan & I are all based at FTG and will be delighted to welcome you to the CO-POA meeting!

There will be a pancake breakfast in the morning and just generally a good time.

1. Denver Sectional is good. Denver Terminal is better.
2. FTG is class D/E depending on the tower. Tower is contract but really good at managing lots of traffic.
3. You will NOT get transit across class B unless it's 2 am. You *MAY* get a transition thru one of the outer rings depending on winds and traffic.
4. On the other hand, if you can climb to 14K, you can go over the class B but watch out for the 737, 757 and Airbuses.
 
I'm fly out of KABQ, about 4..4.5 hours away by rental Cherokee. Still thinking about the route. There is bunch of restricted area, MOAs and mountain ranges in the way near Pueblo.

The plan is to fly in on Friday and stay in a motel somewhere near. I don't think I can fly 9 hours in one day with a break for walking from vendor to vendor in blazing sun. So I'll need to negotiate an overnight tiedown at FTG.
 
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Pete, you probably won't get cleared into the Bravo. Anyway, coming up from the South it wouldn't do you any good. You'll want to be descending to get down to TPA for FTG.

I suggest going over Raton Pass, PUB, east of Colorado Springs. That keeps you out of the MOAs and restricted. If the weather's really nice you could do La Veta, but that requires threading between some MOAs and suff.
 
ABQ tafoy FTI KLVS KRTN KTAD PUB A50 celmi FTG

Raton Pass is between RTN & TAD.

Get Flight Following.
Get Flight Following
Get Flight Following
Get Flight Following
Get Flight Following

Between PUB and A50 is USAF Academy flight traffic (sometimes on the weekend) and USAF IPT out of PUB (very little during the weekend).

As for LaVeta, if you aren't familiar with mountain passes, winds and such, leave it for another time.

No problems with a tie-down. In fact, if my cherokee is still in Montrose for the engine overhaul, you can use my hangar. There's a little dinky motel about 5 miles away in Watkins and someone can always give you a ride. Mostly used by truckers but it's the closest place. I don't think there's a free crew car at FTG. Don't worry about tranportation, there's enough of us you won't need to worry about.

OK, so this is now officially the First CO/NM POA meeting! Breakfast is taken care of, lunch will be whatever junk they're selling or we can crank up our own BBQs. So the only item left is dinner. When Pete gets here, we'll plan it then.
 
I'm fly out of KABQ, about 4..4.5 hours away by rental Cherokee. Still thinking about the route.

Hm....what type of cherokee? It's never taken me more than 3.5 hours either way.

The plan is to fly in on Friday and stay in a motel somewhere near.
I think I live the closest to FTG, or at least the fastest. Besides, I'll probably be out there most of Friday helping to set up. Call me before you leave ABQ and let me know the N number and EST.
I don't think I can fly 9 hours in one day with a break for walking from vendor to vendor in blazing sun. So I'll need to negotiate an overnight tiedown at FTG.

Having done 7+ hours more than once, don't even think about doing it.
If you're planning on leaving Sat after the show, then we need to plan dinner on Friday.
 
Hm....what type of cherokee? It's never taken me more than 3.5 hours either way.

It's going to be a PA-28-140, one of school's trainers. The FBO (Del Sol) is ok with me flying it overnight as long as I log more than 3 hours per day. The way I fly it, it burns about 8.2 gph and can stay in the air for 4 hours 20 minutes from the tabs, 6 hours with full tanks. So in theory I should be able to fly non-stop with legal reserves, but I really don't feel comfortable attempting it. Book says 8.5 gph, and there may be a diversion, traffic delay, or whatnot.

ABQ tafoy FTI KLVS KRTN KTAD PUB A50 celmi FTG

As for LaVeta, if you aren't familiar with mountain passes, winds and such, leave it for another time.

Thanks for the route suggestion. I admit, I was thinking about La Veta pass.

-- Pete
 
It's going to be a PA-28-140, one of school's trainers. The FBO (Del Sol) is ok with me flying it overnight as long as I log more than 3 hours per day. The way I fly it, it burns about 8.2 gph and can stay in the air for 4 hours 20 minutes from the tabs, 6 hours with full tanks. So in theory I should be able to fly non-stop with legal reserves, but I really don't feel comfortable attempting it. Book says 8.5 gph, and there may be a diversion, traffic delay, or whatnot.

Traffic? Diversions? This is not the east coast with a little airport every 10 miles. The only time I ever get an instruction to "divert" is when COS tells me to turn 20 deg east so that the approaching 737's TCAS doesn't go off.

Weather diversion? Around here, you shouldn't even be flying if weather's a problem.

That reminds me, I'll see the expo organizers tomorrow - what's Plan B will be if the weather is rotten?

Thanks for the route suggestion. I admit, I was thinking about La Veta pass.

-- Pete

LaVeta in a 140 may be ok in May. Check density altitude. The road is 9.1 which means you should be 11.5 to cross, and you'll still be below the peaks. Right now the AWOS is out of order and won't be fixed until the snow clears and the crew can get up there to fix/replace it.

The entire trip can be made at 9.5 northbound. Stop in Raton KRTN it's about half-way. The fuel's not the cheapest but reasonable. Fern & Keith are great people and make homemade sandwiches and burgers.
 
As for LaVeta, if you aren't familiar with mountain passes, winds and such, leave it for another time.

Ditto everything else and double-agree on La Veta Pass -- there's a lot of "practice" wrecks up there for us SAR folk.

The "problem" with La Veta Pass is the same as a few others in Colorado. Winter winds in the mountains tend to be out of the Northwest.

As you can see from the map on the right here, there are a few passes that are oriented Southwest to Northeast:

http://coloradopilots.org/mtnfly_passes.asp?menuID=2

Also note that the La Veta Pass AWOS has been messed up for quite some time now. Last date with a report... August of last summer:

http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/KVTP.html

If you can imagine that there's very tall mountains on either side of most of these, and the wind blowing across that peak that might be jutting up into the Jet Stream, the lee side (down-wind) of that first mountain the wind hits is going to have lots of mechanical turbulence. Winds aloft from about 20 knots on up at the mountain peak altitude (not ground level down in the relatively "protected" valleys, where the airports are) can create downdrafts in excess of the climb performance of most normally aspirated single-engine aircraft.

Without some training on techniques to avoid the bad weather (which may look perfectly flyable from ground level down in the valley), good planning for aircraft performance and route alternates, and good weather information, etc. -- Some of these Passes contain "gotcha" scenarios that aren't fun.

Raton Pass -- otherwise known as the "go around the end of the mountains route" is a much more benign route that's just as fun for a long X-C.

But let's not kid ourselves... any flight over mountainous terrain, even what we would consider "low" mountains around here (9500' MSL) requires some thought and planning. Look over your route on a sectional carefully, and plan to stay high as you head over the higher terrain.

Here's an NTSB report that reads like almost every story I've ever heard on a search for an aircraft around here. It's West of the Raton area near Cimmaron.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001206X02723&ntsbno=FTW95LA066&akey=1

Items of note:

December. It was likely pretty cool/cold out. Imagine the performance of
this aircraft in the summertime. He wouldn't have even made it as far as he did.

Topped off the tanks, and probably a max-gross trip for a 182 with three people and full fuel. Performance again. Do you need full fuel? Have you done the performance numbers at max-gross?

Pilot lost site of a visual landmark (a road) and continued up the wrong valley. This is in the accident reports in the mountains over and over and over again. If you're lost, go back to somewhere you're not lost. Pressing forward into terrain that can "out-climb" your aircraft is foolish.

http://www.planecrashmap.com/plane/nm/N182X

Aircraft impacted around 9000' MSL. A 182 can easily climb higher than that, but you have to plan it and start earlier. 2000' above rough terrain is always recommended.

This isn't to scare anyone, but to educate... flying over mountainous terrain requires you be a little more "on your game", but routes like this one are well-within the limitations of even new pilots, as long as they plan and are prepared. Someone who just jumps in an aircraft without looking at a performance chart in 10 years, is going to get hurt in the rocks. Or if they get lucky, the spend a very cold night out at 9000' MSL like this pilot and his passengers did. They got lucky.

C'mon up for a visit, and fly safe!
 
3. You will NOT get transit across class B unless it's 2 am. You *MAY* get a transition thru one of the outer rings depending on winds and traffic.

Anthony can confirm that's not necessarily true - I think one of us snapped a pic directly overhead DEN tower at mid-day-ish when we flew BJC-FTG ... didn't we? However, I can't find it. I was going to buy a lotto ticket when I got back to BJC, but by the time I made the drop and turn and asked for clearance back home, I got the "remain clear of Class Bravo" once again, so I saved my dollar. :)
 
Just a few comments...

I'm FTG based and the main things around the Bravo are to get flight following and keep yer head down (stay under the shelves). There's a fair bit of traffic and the extra eyes of flight following are a big help. If yer 8,500 or below north of the Springs, Springs Approach will drop you and advise you to pick up Denver Approach on 128.45 about 40 miles south of Denver.

Don't stop in Raton when planning to depart to the north. Climbing for the pass would add significant time in the 140 ($$$$). Stop in PUB for self serve. It was all the Dakota could do to clear the pass without circling with just two aboard and full tanks.

Be willing to go 20 miles east of the mountains (or more) to get out of turbulence if the winds aloft are greater than 30 kts. Do not cut the corner over the mountains down by Las Vegas if there are strong winds out of the southwest. I got into a mother of a downdraft doing that once.

Fly early, even in May. The afternoon weather may turn out to be great but plan on convection.
 
Anthony can confirm that's not necessarily true - I think one of us snapped a pic directly overhead DEN tower at mid-day-ish when we flew BJC-FTG ... didn't we? However, I can't find it. I was going to buy a lotto ticket when I got back to BJC, but by the time I made the drop and turn and asked for clearance back home, I got the "remain clear of Class Bravo" once again, so I saved my dollar. :)

Yeah, I was based at KFTG for about three years and was there prior to it being controlled and then after they put in the tower and changed the airspace.

You will probably have to drop down under the shelf coming from the south, but sometimes I would get cleared that way coming up from Pueblo or the Springs. You're going to have to descend anyway if you're landing at KFTG. What Greg is referencing is going east or west. I was offered by DEN APP going west fro KFTG to go direct DEN tower then direct to my destination, which was probably Erie (used to be 3V5) or maybe KBJC. So after I did that once I used to request it and they would typically give it to me. They'd sometimes say, "you sound like you know what you're doing", so be confiident when you ask. I think I had to switch to the Tower freq, but I forget now. I actually did that quite often instead of going all the way around, and/or other the Class B.

Oh yeah, you want to make a left turn off of runway 26, even if your GPS shows you have room, prior to clearance into the B. If not, you will bust the Class B, and they will give you a number to call. Not that I would know from personal experience. :rolleyes2:

Greg, if you can find that pick post it. I remember you taking that shot. :thumbsup:
 
OK, so this is now officially the First CO/NM POA meeting! Breakfast is taken care of, lunch will be whatever junk they're selling or we can crank up our own BBQs. So the only item left is dinner. When Pete gets here, we'll plan it then.

I hope y'all are willing to do this again in a few months once I get moved out there!:cheerswine:
 
So, I am thinking about trying to make this event. I just need some route advice getting to FTG from the west. I would probably be coming over Corona Pass. What route do you FTG folks take to stay clear of the Bravo and Deltas. Would I have to go around the APA D or are they pretty good about letting people transition.

Note, if weather was marginal for Corona, I would go the north (powerline) route up by Laramie. Then it would be easy to just stay East of the Bravo.
 
Just plan on using Buckley's airspace. Nothing is ever happening there other than the occaisional F-16 op or maybe a helicopter. The tower is glad to have something to do - Just stay on the south edge of I-70 and yer out of everyone's way and clear of the Bravo.

Of course you can always ask to go direct from the west side to FTG...prolly won't get it but can always ask...

If you end up on the powerline route ya may wanta think about going a few extra miles east just to stay away from everybody shaving the eastern edge of the surface Bravo. I've met more no-see-um traffic over there than I like to think about. Approach is good with calling traffic and advising you of the situation if there is a lot of movement (as long as they aren't too busy).
 
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I hope y'all are willing to do this again in a few months once I get moved out there!:cheerswine:

Do we even allow these high falutin' airline drivers to slum with us GA low lifes? I mean we allow Greg B. to show up but at least he has a 190/5 with an oil leak. :D:D:D
 
I hope y'all are willing to do this again in a few months once I get moved out there!:cheerswine:
Does this mean you followed the POA consensus and picked Denver over Houston or Phoenix? :D
 
I've flown that route many times. A couple of bad day I get all the way to ABQ before I could turn west to my CA destination.

In decent weather I like to stay in San Luis valley and either cross Hayden (or Poncha) or Mosca Pass. Then stay on the west side of Pikes Peak and down the South Platte river. The keeps you away from all the Military training and restricted areas. Beside it is very nice views. Bad weather, I 25 can work but getting east of Santa Fe can be a little tough. You might have to go south and east of the Sandias before you turn north.
 
So, everyone meeting in murphey's hangar? :D

Wait! You're gonna make me clean house/hangar? Hm...I'll need more chairs and I've been meaning to get a small fridge anyway... But Clark's got the grill, not me. I guess between us we could manage. His hangar is cleaner.
 
Got grill & small fridge. Hangar much cleaner after this weekend. Swept the floor & hauled out the trash. Organization still lousy, especially with all the odds and ends out of the aircraft since it's off getting panel surgery.

That said, it may not be cold enough for me to grill at my hangar in May...(small inside joke).
 
Just a few comments...

I'm FTG based and the main things around the Bravo are to get flight following and keep yer head down (stay under the shelves). There's a fair bit of traffic and the extra eyes of flight following are a big help. If yer 8,500 or below north of the Springs, Springs Approach will drop you and advise you to pick up Denver Approach on 128.45 about 40 miles south of Denver.

Just before you reach Palmer Divide or Monument or that ridge in front of you that stretches W-E. If they haven't given you the freq change, call and remind them.
Don't stop in Raton when planning to depart to the north. Climbing for the pass would add significant time in the 140 ($$$$). Stop in PUB for self serve. It was all the Dakota could do to clear the pass without circling with just two aboard and full tanks.

That's because you weigh more - the airplane, I mean, and carry more fuel and have a bigger engine.

Ok, I admit, I usually do Raton Pass at 10.5 or 11.5 depending on drection
Be willing to go 20 miles east of the mountains (or more) to get out of turbulence if the winds aloft are greater than 30 kts. Do not cut the corner over the mountains down by Las Vegas if there are strong winds out of the southwest. I got into a mother of a downdraft doing that once.

Fly early, even in May. The afternoon weather may turn out to be great but plan on convection.

My lower route is:

ABQ eyipe cayal tafoy - this gets you around hills. What? You don't know what eyipe and V263 are? It's a great opportunity to expand your XC knowledge. Go study the Denver Sectional.

tafoy FTI over S24 to fogle (intersection of V389 & V263). Following on what Clark said, don't go to CIM, that puts you too close to the hills and possible/likely downdrafts. The 140 just doesn't have the power to get out.

Follow V389 or a bit east (lower) but stay out of Pinon MOA. Takes you over TAD or if you prefer, stay a bit more to the east for lower ground.

Need to stop for gas? Pueblo but watch out for the 3 competing fuel companies all trying to wave you down. If you don't use Flower, you need to walk over to the main terminal building for potty call (or use the porta-potty).

V389 North to lufse intersection. This keeps you more to the east and a bit lower. Then it's just straight into FTG. If winds and traffic are in your favor, Denver Approach will clear you into Bravo, otherwise remember to stay below the 3 shelves. TPA at FTG is 6500, ground is 5500 (ok, so it 5512 but that's trivia). Do not assume left or right traffic for any runway at FTG, no matter what the map says. Tower will direct you.

Things to be careful about - be on Flight Following! During the week (assuming you're flying in on Friday) there are lots of little trainers that belong to the USAF. The Academy's training areas are to the east of V389 and will usually not be an issue EXCEPT they cross V389 coming & going and are really difficult to see.

If you have 2 radios, keep one on 122.75. This is the freq that the USAF at PUB uses. Call sign there is "tiger" for those who've solo'd. Academy will be monitoring that freq also but doesn't give out position reports. But that's another topic for discussion over libations in the hangar.
 
Got grill & small fridge. Hangar much cleaner after this weekend. Swept the floor & hauled out the trash. Organization still lousy, especially with all the odds and ends out of the aircraft since it's off getting panel surgery.

That said, it may not be cold enough for me to grill at my hangar in May...(small inside joke).

I'll have Reddy or Reliant deliver many large blocks of ice.
 
Does this mean you followed the POA consensus and picked Denver over Houston or Phoenix? :D

Indeed. It was an overwhelming consensus...hard to deny that kind of solid advice (at least it better have been solid, or my wife will make me pay!) :wink2:


Do we even allow these high falutin' airline drivers to slum with us GA low lifes? I mean we allow Greg B. to show up but at least he has a 190/5 with an oil leak. :D:D:D

Hey I'm a turbo-prop guy...that hardly counts. Just ask any RJ driver :thumbsup: Besides, I'd bet my Saab goes through AT LEAST as much oil as a 190 in any given flight (you should see it start up)! Plus, I won't have that cross to bear too much longer.
 
Besides, I'd bet my Saab goes through AT LEAST as much oil as a 190 in any given flight (you should see it start up)! Plus, I won't have that cross to bear too much longer.

I'm thinkin' you haven't seen Greg's investment in Big Oil's future...

I considered doubling my stock position in Shell after witnessing the auto-oil-change on the 190/5. I had one on the Dakota when I bought it so I know how much oil can be dumped gratuitously over the countryside (and used to re-condition asphalt ramps, and prevent belly corrosion, and...)
 
So, I am thinking about trying to make this event. I just need some route advice getting to FTG from the west. I would probably be coming over Corona Pass. What route do you FTG folks take to stay clear of the Bravo and Deltas. Would I have to go around the APA D or are they pretty good about letting people transition.

Here's a cool trick a CAP pilot showed me...

If you ask nicely and sound like you're know what you're doing... and... it's not a Guard weekend...

You can often get clearance through Buckley AFB's Class D, Westbound.

It's a pretty quick radio call after you depart FTG, especially if they're taking off to the West. So you have to be ready/prepared to do it.

But that's how I got from FTG to Corona Pass going the other way (Westbound) on my Colorado Pilot's Association mountain flying course last summer.

I've only done it that once, but pre-briefed, it's nice. Right straight overhead Buckley's runway, no traffic there most days.

It's worth an ask... they will typically have you follow the road that runs from the radio tower just West of FTG toward the base and overhead.

Also gives you a nice emergency landing field underneath since you do still have to stay fairly low to stay in their airspace and out of the overlying Bravo. And if you ask, sometimes the Buckley controllers can call on the in-line to DEN TRACON and coordinate your transition up into the Bravo to continue a climb if you're going Westbound.

Sound confident. Ask. They might just let you through there.
 
Here's a cool trick a CAP pilot showed me...

If you ask nicely and sound like you're know what you're doing... and... it's not a Guard weekend...

You can often get clearance through Buckley AFB's Class D, Westbound.

It's a pretty quick radio call after you depart FTG, especially if they're taking off to the West. So you have to be ready/prepared to do it.

But that's how I got from FTG to Corona Pass going the other way (Westbound) on my Colorado Pilot's Association mountain flying course last summer.

I've only done it that once, but pre-briefed, it's nice. Right straight overhead Buckley's runway, no traffic there most days.

It's worth an ask... they will typically have you follow the road that runs from the radio tower just West of FTG toward the base and overhead.

Also gives you a nice emergency landing field underneath since you do still have to stay fairly low to stay in their airspace and out of the overlying Bravo. And if you ask, sometimes the Buckley controllers can call on the in-line to DEN TRACON and coordinate your transition up into the Bravo to continue a climb if you're going Westbound.

Sound confident. Ask. They might just let you through there.

Buckley airspace is no problem. They've never denied my "request" (ten miles east, transition you airspace to the west, I'll be up near I-70.

They seem to appreciate a cheerful call-up ("GOOD MORNING...).

My primary flight instructor was also a traffic pilot and said that Buckley never gave him any problem at all. They're bored to tears and appreciate any diversion at all. They are very willing to do practice approaches. I've heard that touch-n-goes are possible but sorta doubt that one.
 
My primary flight instructor was also a traffic pilot and said that Buckley never gave him any problem at all. They're bored to tears and appreciate any diversion at all. They are very willing to do practice approaches. I've heard that touch-n-goes are possible but sorta doubt that one.

I do too, since I have a document here (that I probably can't share) about how the CAP aircraft based at Buckley make arrangements to get in and out.

If you ever did happen to get to do it, make sure you look real carefully at the runway diagram. Those arresting cables at both ends can be hell on Cessna landing gear. ;) Might want to plan to land beyond those, and be off before the next one... :thumbsup:
 
I'm fly out of KABQ, about 4..4.5 hours away by rental Cherokee. Still thinking about the route. There is bunch of restricted area, MOAs and mountain ranges in the way near Pueblo.

The plan is to fly in on Friday and stay in a motel somewhere near. I don't think I can fly 9 hours in one day with a break for walking from vendor to vendor in blazing sun. So I'll need to negotiate an overnight tiedown at FTG.

We're in the midst of arranging a deal with a couple of the hotels near the Big Airport (and transportation if need be). Hang loose, more details as they get worked out.

Website is up and running altho it's a bit thin right now.
 
Hey Denver Folks,

New pilot from RMMA (KBJC) here. Saw the newletter from Skyraider Aviation about this Rocky Mountain LSA Expo and thought it would be a great event to do my first fly-in (even if it is just flying from one side of town to the other). Going to see if I can schedule one our my Flight School's Remo's for the day (not sure they'll let me though). Please keep us/me informed on meeting places and times, I'd like to be more involved and do some pilot networking.

K
 
Kevin - 8-9 am is the pancake breakfast (since I know who's cooking, I'd recommend eating before you come out....no, I'm not the one cooking)

9-4 pm is the show. Right now we have 5 committed LSAs, 4 speakers and I dunno how many vendors at this point. But remember, it's the first one of it's kind out here in the west.

If you've never dealt with Denver approach/departure before, we'll be posting routing suggestions as we get closer to the expo.

We're still in negotiations for the lunch vendor(s).

The website has been improved, by the way.
 
9-4 pm is the show. Right now we have 5 committed LSAs, 4 speakers and I dunno how many vendors at this point. But remember, it's the first one of it's kind out here in the west.
I am going to call the Flight School (where I rent from) to see what the chances are of getting one of their Remo's for the day. However, I serious doubt they'll accept having one of their busy planes out all day for just 2 hours of clock time (at the most). I will just have to take one of the C172s. If that pans, heck driving will get me there as well. :)

If you've never dealt with Denver approach/departure before, we'll be posting routing suggestions as we get closer to the expo.
I've dealt with Denver approach/departure several times, so it's not foreign to me. Guessing I'll just do flight following and hook down around KAPA (staying under the shelf) and then back around to FTG. That is a lot shorter than trying the north loop-around.

The website has been improved, by the way.
Checked it out, very nice.

K
 
I've dealt with Denver approach/departure several times, so it's not foreign to me. Guessing I'll just do flight following and hook down around KAPA (staying under the shelf) and then back around to FTG.

Just go through Buckley's airspace - it's just class D and normal procedures apply - establish communication and fly on through. If you're on flight following approach should take care of transiting the Delta. I rarely use flight following on the trip from BJC to FTG since it's so short.

Keep your head down (stay under the Bravo) but other than that the flight is a piece of cake.
 
Need to stop for gas? Pueblo but watch out for the 3 competing fuel companies all trying to wave you down. If you don't use Flower, you need to walk over to the main terminal building for potty call (or use the porta-potty).

Anyone willing to admit that they remember when Flower Aviation's claim to fame was line girls dressed in mini-skirts fueling high-wing aircraft? :D

I never did get one of their postcards back then, though... they were kinda the "Hooters" of local aviation back in the day. Tacky, but fun. :thumbsup:

Nowadays, they're not the cheapest gas on the field at PUB -- there's a self-serve hiding somewhere over there on the West side of the ramp, I hear. But I still patronize Flower -- probably wishful thinking that they'll go back to their old marketing campaign. LOL! Nah, they're nice folks.

They also give you a card for a free steak or something with each 10 gallons or something like that. I have two of them half-filled-out and never remember to take them along and buy gas to finish them up. The counter folks there in PUB say they have 'em frozen in the back, ready to hand out. Haha.

They also used to operate at three airports, and they left one of the airports recently. Guy behind the counter said they were getting jerked around by the airport (think it was in Kansas somewhere) over the airport's cut of everything, so they just left. Wonder if the airport cared, or if some other FBO just took over where Flower left off.

Oh well, rambling here...

Murph hid his link over in another new thread. Heh heh.
http://www.rmlsaexpo.com/

Right now my calendar shows two competing things on that day... one is the Expo, the other is the twice a year "Dumpster Days" in my neighborhood. Yeah, I know... not very exciting... but my HOA brings in roll-offs starting at 7AM or so, and keeps 'em coming until no one is throwing things into them anymore. It's a SWEET benefit of our measly $25/year HOA fees.

My garage badly needs Dumpster Days this year... so I'll probably be tossing things in a dumpster early in the morning -- a lot of things -- and then fly over later. Maybe see you guys for lunch...? We'll just have to see how it all pans out.

Lots of big stuff I don't want to put in the utility trailer and haul over to the dump on a weekday when I can just haul it three blocks away, neighbors will help me unload it into a giant roll-off with a door, and then back up the hill for loads two, three, four, and maybe five.
 
As an update to the USAF training areas....the current A/FD has a fairly good but
little map of the COS and PUB areas. It's good as a starting point.
 
I have 6693W reserved for 2 days and bought Denver terminal chart. Let's just hope weather is not too bad in mid-May.
 
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