Rocky Mtn LSA Expo

zaitcev said:
I have 6693W reserved for 2 days and bought Denver terminal chart. Let's just hope weather is not too bad in mid-May.
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Then it's time to put Friday, May 13 dinner on the Colorado POA calendar!

We're working out prices and transportation with some nearby hotels. Nothing is really close, and I haven't heard if there will be camping allowed.
 
murphey said:
Then it's time to put Friday, May 13 dinner on the Colorado POA calendar!
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That works for me. Looking at the calendar I have both Friday and Saturday off, not that things can't change. However, I'm available for dinner and even to help out, not that I know anything about LSAs other than the cool ride I got in one! :D
 
I had a check-out in Remos N28GX that belongs to New Mexico Sport Aviation out of Santa Fe ( http://www.nmsportaviation.com/ ), so I'm thinking about taking it instead of Cherokee. It would be in keeping with the theme of LSA. Also, its high-altitude performance is much better. Unfortunately, I am not very comfortable in a Remos.
 
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zaitcev said:
I had a check-out in Remos N28GX that belongs to New Mexico Sport Aviation out of Santa Fe ( http://www.nmsportaviation.com/ ), so I'm thinking about taking it instead of Cherokee. It would be in keeping with the theme of LSA. Also, its high-altitude performance is much better. Unfortunately, I am not very comfortable in a Remos.
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By comfortable do you mean physically or flying finesse?
 
I can't make the Expo because of a prior commitment teaching folks how to shoot photos of Coke cans in a parking lot from moving automobiles (Ha... Teaching CAP photo mission skills...) but it's going to be cool!

I hope you guys have Eric signed up to show off his Jabiru. That's got to be the coolest SLSA in the area. I asked him today if his winglets were so he could be in the airliner crowd at the lunch at BJC. ;)

His Denver Broncos paint scheme ain't bad "marketing" around here either! ;)

That's one sharp lookin' airplane, Eric!

There wasn't any grass growin' under the Gobii (is that plural for Gobosh) today either. They were slugging it out in the light chop like champs! ;)

And the two fat guys and one skinny guy in the 182 brought up the rear all day after getting a late start and waiting a looooong time for breakfast at GXY.

What a fun day!
 
zaitcev said:
I had a check-out in Remos N28GX that belongs to New Mexico Sport Aviation out of Santa Fe ( http://www.nmsportaviation.com/ ), so I'm thinking about taking it instead of Cherokee. It would be in keeping with the theme of LSA. Also, its high-altitude performance is much better. Unfortunately, I am not very comfortable in a Remos.
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Practice, practice, practice.

The Remos is a fun airplane, just remember not to freak out when you see the tach read 5500! And don't pull power on landing, thinking you'll glide in like the cherokee.
 
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denverpilot said:
What a fun day!
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It definitely was a fun day of flying. I was in the final plane (N2459K) having issues with hot starts. Once I called the FS I rent from and got the procedures reexplained, it was a little easier to get that beast started again. All in all a fun day. Cannot wait to do it again next time.
 
ejensen said:
By comfortable do you mean physically or flying finesse?
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I found 2 somewhat workable positions:
#1 - Slide my butt down so that my knees go up and somewhat above the stick. In that case, my head goes under and in front of the spar rib.
#2 - Move the butt into the seat and position the head under the skylight, behind the spar rib.

Position #1 has one great advantage: I can look out for traffic at least somewhat, with merely craning my neck (limited to co-altitude and lower traffic, with the wing blocking anything above horizon). In position #2, I am entirely blind to the sides. To look into side windows requires a full body bow and then the front pillar blocks the view badly. However, in position #1 my knees restrict the side movement of the stick. So, the current mode is to cruise in position #1 for safety reasons, and switch to position #2 when banking is called for, e.g. in airport environment. It is still not ideal because getting into a busy airport may require both lookout and maneuvering, and then I'm stuck.

As far as finesse goes, I'm frankly amazed how forgiving Remos is. I heard so much about LSAs being twitchy and whatnot, but I can afford to get out of shape in any way I like and then completely recover while on final, put it gently on the fat marks and take the first turn-off. At worst I may need to drop full flap before flaring. About the only thing I need to pay attention to is not to land sideways in it. Cherokee is noticeably harder to fly for me (not that I can't do it, but I have to work in it, even think forward a little bit). I can't even imagine what a Mooney would be like.

I am looking forward into sitting in as many LSAs as I can during the Expo and trying to look outside.
 
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You fellows were feeding me so much horror about the "mountain flying", that I flew to AXX yesterday, in case. Didn't see much... I guess I need to hit good wind and clouds before horrors happen. Going to go whole length to FTG next Friday, if the weather holds.
 
Take Flight Following, when you get into the region where the local area controllers have you, most likely "Denver Approach", simply state "Denver Approach, 69SA inbound for Front Range, unfamiliar. Is there a routing you would prefer me to take?"

It really is as simple as that to stay out of trouble. Now they may give you vectors that take you out of your way. Usually though if you call up early, ATC gets you done, quite possibly directly through the Bravo.
 
Understood. Murphey also tried to impress on me the importance of flight following, on the previous page. This time I tried to pay attention at the way experienced pilots communicate with the Center. My FF requests certainly came out fumbling.
 
zaitcev said:
Understood. Murphey also tried to impress on me the importance of flight following, on the previous page. This time I tried to pay attention at the way experienced pilots communicate with the Center. My FF requests certainly came out fumbling.
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If you are at a towered airfield you can make your initial FF request with Clearance Delivery or Ground before you start to taxi and most of the time they'll get you a squawk code before you ever hit the runway. Occasionally I have to embarrass them into it with a "Are you serious that you can't get me a squawk?" like I did at Hayward after being told they can't get me one which they then did.

Actually, FF communications is important to get correct because it's what sets you up for your IR communications, so it's good to get it down and be comfortable with it if you ever intend on getting an IR.
 
zaitcev said:
My FF requests certainly came out fumbling.
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Don't let that keep you from trying to use it. Being comfortable with the radio takes some practice. If you can't figure out the proper phraseology, just say what you want in plain English. As you say, listening to other pilots helps too.
 
Everskyward said:
Don't let that keep you from trying to use it. Being comfortable with the radio takes some practice. If you can't figure out the proper phraseology, just say what you want in plain English. As you say, listening to other pilots helps too.
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And in a pinch, add the words "Student Pilot".
 
Henning said:
It really is as simple as that to stay out of trouble. Now they may give you vectors that take you out of your way. Usually though if you call up early, ATC gets you done, quite possibly directly through the Bravo.
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Expect to be sent around the Bravo. The DEN runway layour has both east-west and north-south runways, both of which are generally in use. Fortunately, remaining clear below the Bravo isn't that difficult.

Murphey, have you done the direct across when heading out to the west or in from the west?
 
midlifeflyer said:
Expect to be sent around the Bravo. The DEN runway layour has both east-west and north-south runways, both of which are generally in use. Fortunately, remaining clear below the Bravo isn't that difficult.

Murphey, have you done the direct across when heading out to the west or in from the west?
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Nope - always get told to "remain outside Class B" every time. I have heard urban legends that between midnight and 4 am it's possible to not only get direct routing right over the terminal, but also a couple touch & gos without paying the landing fee. But as I said, it's just a rumor...

Which means either a NW or SW route. There are some with higher performance aircraft (one who checks in here sometimes) that have been known to go OVER Class B. Going to/coming from the NW, it's just easier to stay at 6500 under the Class B inner shelf or swing north a bit - still under C-B but a bit higher altitudes.

South routes - the published altitude levels are higher and there's usually more opportunity for "Cleared into Class B". Going south I usually get cleared into the lower ring of C-B once I get about 10 miles south of Denver Intl. Northbound, seems that once you get within 15 nm of DIA/KDEN, they want you under C-B.

If I'm headed for Corona/Rollins, the route is over Buckley AFB (but usually NOT cleared into Class Bravo then over or a bit south of downtown Denver. Once past downtown ATC will usually clear me into Bravo. In the cherokee, it takes me that long to get to 12.5 for Corona Pass.
 
I got a direct bjc-ftg overhead den tower once, mid-day. got "remain clear bravo" on the return trip an hour later. So, 1 cleared out of numerous requests across the years.
 
zaitcev said:
I found 2 somewhat workable positions:
#1 - Slide my butt down so that my knees go up and somewhat above the stick. In that case, my head goes under and in front of the spar rib.
#2 - Move the butt into the seat and position the head under the skylight, behind the spar rib.

Position #1 has one great advantage: I can look out for traffic at least somewhat, with merely craning my neck (limited to co-altitude and lower traffic, with the wing blocking anything above horizon). In position #2, I am entirely blind to the sides. To look into side windows requires a full body bow and then the front pillar blocks the view badly. However, in position #1 my knees restrict the side movement of the stick. So, the current mode is to cruise in position #1 for safety reasons, and switch to position #2 when banking is called for, e.g. in airport environment. It is still not ideal because getting into a busy airport may require both lookout and maneuvering, and then I'm stuck.

As far as finesse goes, I'm frankly amazed how forgiving Remos is. I heard so much about LSAs being twitchy and whatnot, but I can afford to get out of shape in any way I like and then completely recover while on final, put it gently on the fat marks and take the first turn-off. At worst I may need to drop full flap before flaring. About the only thing I need to pay attention to is not to land sideways in it. Cherokee is noticeably harder to fly for me (not that I can't do it, but I have to work in it, even think forward a little bit). I can't even imagine what a Mooney would be like.

I am looking forward into sitting in as many LSAs as I can during the Expo and trying to look outside.
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Somehow missed this post. I haven't flown any LSA except my Jabiru. I'm 6'2" and comfortable but wouldn't want to be any taller. The seats are fixed so short can be a problem too. They make rudder extensions. Several hours aren't a problem. I did over 8 on the way home last November.

I'll be there Saturday. The weather is looking good a week out. So keep you fingers crossed.
 
denverpilot said:
I can't make the Expo because of a prior commitment teaching folks how to shoot photos of Coke cans in a parking lot from moving automobiles (Ha... Teaching CAP photo mission skills...) but it's going to be cool!

I hope you guys have Eric signed up to show off his Jabiru. That's got to be the coolest SLSA in the area. I asked him today if his winglets were so he could be in the airliner crowd at the lunch at BJC. ;)

His Denver Broncos paint scheme ain't bad "marketing" around here either! ;)

That's one sharp lookin' airplane, Eric!

There wasn't any grass growin' under the Gobii (is that plural for Gobosh) today either. They were slugging it out in the light chop like champs! ;)

And the two fat guys and one skinny guy in the 182 brought up the rear all day after getting a late start and waiting a looooong time for breakfast at GXY.

What a fun day!
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Thanks, I very pleased with the Jabiru so far. I'm planning on Saturday and will talk anyone's ear off about the J230. The factory can't make it. Their demonstrator was trashed at S&F along with 70 others. They sent me some price lists and brochures.
 
murphey said:
Nope - always get told to "remain outside Class B" every time. I have heard urban legends that between midnight and 4 am it's possible to not only get direct routing right over the terminal, but also a couple touch & gos without paying the landing fee. But as I said, it's just a rumor....
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I might be able to partially verify the rumor. I do a standard night cross country with primary students in the summer (when we're not even leaving until 9 pm) which involves landing at DEN.

But yeah I figured that, with the multidirectional runways in use at DEN, "remain outside" is the instruction of choice for controllers for FTG as it is for APA and BJC.
 
gkainz said:
I got a direct bjc-ftg overhead den tower once, mid-day. got "remain clear bravo" on the return trip an hour later. So, 1 cleared out of numerous requests across the years.
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I got vectored right over the top of O'Hare once at 3500', so yeah, miracles do happen...
 
midlifeflyer said:
Expect to be sent around the Bravo. The DEN runway layour has both east-west and north-south runways, both of which are generally in use. Fortunately, remaining clear below the Bravo isn't that difficult.

Murphey, have you done the direct across when heading out to the west or in from the west?
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I've gone South to North at 2000 AGL, straight between two arriving streams of the big guys going the opposite way. Wasn't much fun. But it did shave like 5 minutes off the trip around.
 
So, Wx looks like it just might let me make this trip! Is there going to be an official POA parking area?:) I look forward to see the CO POAers again, and check out Eric's swank new plane.

Tony
 
stagecoachco said:
So, Wx looks like it just might let me make this trip! Is there going to be an official POA parking area?:) I look forward to see the CO POAers again, and check out Eric's swank new plane.

Tony
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Yup, the POA parking area is on the ramp. I might have the Frankenkota back from R&B on Saturday. Sorta doubt it but maybe.The cowl went to the painters yesterday. I'm assuming the wheel pants will go tomorrow. If no problems are found dressing the struts I'll have everything back by the weekend (or not).

Tell ya what, we'll promise BBQ. Does that work for you?:D
 
It's raining, it's pouring...
but at least it isn't snowing ....

now ....

here ...

any more ...

and/or not yet again ...

blech - March was our spring!!! April and May (so far) have been gross!
 
This guy thinks it's a little cold for BBQ.

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Saturday still looking OK for the Expo. TS in the pm but that's a standard forecast. A bit cool if the clouds come in, low 60's. I cleaned the plane today. Ready to get an early start for breakfast.
 
Interesting, doesn't seem to be coordinated with the Front Range event.

Doesn't look like they'll make Fort Collins today. MVFR, showers and mist right now.
KFNL 121335Z AUTO 01008KT 6SM BKN026 OVC033 05/04 A3002 RMK AO1 P0006
KFNL 121315Z AUTO 33012KT 6SM OVC028 05/03 A3001 RMK AO1 P0002
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KFNL 121255Z AUTO 33013G17KT 10SM BKN028 OVC034 05/03 A3000 RMK AO1 P0006[/FONT]

I have some things going on today or I'd go out. First I've heard of it.
 
ejensen said:
Interesting, doesn't seem to be coordinated with the Front Range event.

Doesn't look like they'll make Fort Collins today. MVFR, showers and mist right now.
KFNL 121335Z AUTO 01008KT 6SM BKN026 OVC033 05/04 A3002 RMK AO1 P0006
KFNL 121315Z AUTO 33012KT 6SM OVC028 05/03 A3001 RMK AO1 P0002
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KFNL 121255Z AUTO 33013G17KT 10SM BKN028 OVC034 05/03 A3000 RMK AO1 P0006[/FONT]

I have some things going on today or I'd go out. First I've heard of it.
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I must be in the snow belt. There's a good 8-10 inches on the ground and still snowing.
 
We got over 1.5 inches of rain but no snow. I can't see the foothills yet to know how far down the snowline is. You are a bit higher elevation I believe.
 
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