Reporting your position inbound

iflyvfr

iflyvfr

Pattern Altitude
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Greg
Ok, I've sat on this question long enough and I've not seen it asked before. I don't have a CFI or a controller buddy I can call up and discuss so here goes: TZR has runways 04/22. If you are at one of the three positions depicted in the attached and you are inbound, what does your call up sound like?

"Bolton Twr, Cessna 12377R, 9 miles ? ? inbound with Charlie." Fill in the Primary Cardinal or InterCardinal direction. For example, how would you report your position if you're sitting in the center aircraft? You're essentially straight in for runway 4, assuming that's the active.

And for the example of the right aircraft, are you "South East of the field inbound or are you East"?

I am never quite sure 100% what the controller interprets my direction to be. I am frequently in the right a/c position and report SE of the field. Last week I did this and was told report left base runway 22 (winds were from the SE when I landed). That made me think he thought I was further East when I was further South. Yet, from my perspective, I am reporting my position RELATIVE to the field. Am I doing it wrong?
 

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I only see 3 planes in your example and one is mostly south and the other 1 is southwest and 1 is either west or SW of the airport. Be as accurate in your reporting as possible but don't get hung up on exactness, this isn't rocket science.
 
just think of your plane as a DOT and the airport as a DOT. where is your dot compared to the airport dot.
 
One is south-southeast, one is south-southwest (both of these you could get by just saying south), and one is southwest. As you said, from the field. So you could say "south" for the first 2, and "southwest" for the other one. If the controller tells you to report left base for 22, you'd maneuver to a downwind, unless the controller gave you a heading. Does help at all? If not, I'll try again.
 
Personally, I'd use a wake up.

"Bolton tower Censsna 12377R."
"Cessna 12377R Bolton tower, go ahead."
"Cessna 12377R, 9 miles east, information Romeo, full stop."
"Cessna 77R, enter left base runway 22."

You're depiction from left to right is SW, SW and S. I think you're getting a bit overly concerned about exact position. Most likely Bolton has some sort of radar feed from CMH so they should have your location anyway.
 
Your position is opposite of your heading as related to the airport (reflected on your HSI). Aircraft one is heading 090, due East, so say West. Aircraft two is heading 040, due NorthEast, so say SouthWest. Aircraft three is heading 360, due North, so say South.
 
Velocity173 said:
Personally, I'd use a wake up.

"Bolton tower Censsna 12377R."
"Cessna 12377R Bolton tower, go ahead."
"Cessna 12377R, 9 miles east, information Romeo, full stop."
"Cessna 77R, enter left base runway 22."

You're depiction from left to right is SW, SW and S. I think you're getting a bit overly concerned about exact position. Most likely Bolton has some sort of radar feed from CMH so they should have your location anyway.
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QFT

And if they're not sure, they'll tell you to ident.
 
citizen5000 said:
Your position is opposite of your heading as related to the airport (reflected on your HSI). Aircraft one is heading 090, due East, so say West. Aircraft two is heading 040, due NorthEast, so say SouthWest. Aircraft three is heading 360, due North, so say South.
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Thanks everyone! I think you highlight my ongoing confusion because when I look at the sectional, aircraft #1 (leftmost) appears to be southwest of Bolton Field as depicted. By chance are you looking at KLCK, Rickenbacker?

The reason I get hung up on this isn't because of the controller, it's actually out of concern for you: the other pilot who is trying to figure out where I am.
 
mscard88 said:
One is south-southeast, one is south-southwest (both of these you could get by just saying south), and one is southwest. As you said, from the field. So you could say "south" for the first 2, and "southwest" for the other one. If the controller tells you to report left base for 22, you'd maneuver to a downwind, unless the controller gave you a heading. Does help at all? If not, I'll try again.
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This is how I interpret it, but I've also been told opposite compass heading, which resulted in my post!
 
iflyvfr said:
This is how I interpret it, but I've also been told opposite compass heading, which resulted in my post!
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Just tell 'em where you are in relationship to the airport. Sounds like you're doing it right. What may help is a airport diagram, orientate it and visualize how you are approaching the airport.
 
iflyvfr said:
This is how I interpret it, but I've also been told opposite compass heading, which resulted in my post!
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Opposite compass heading (I'm assuming you meant converted to a cardinal direction, not numeric) is just a method of visualization, and doesn't work unless the nose is pointed at the airport.
 
iflyvfr said:
Thanks everyone! I think you highlight my ongoing confusion because when I look at the sectional, aircraft #1 (leftmost) appears to be southwest of Bolton Field as depicted. By chance are you looking at KLCK, Rickenbacker?...
Click to expand...
When I plot a course line from the airport reference point to the location of aircraft #1, I get a bearing of 258 degrees. That's 12 degrees from west, and 33 degrees from southwest, so it's closer to west than southwest.
 
Palmpilot said:
That's 12 degrees from west, and 33 degrees from southwest, so it's closer to west than southwest.
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That's called "West Southwest".

comprose.gif


When headed to an airport, I just use the kludge of looking at the tail of the Heading Indicator pointer, or in my case now the bottom of my Vertical Card Compass.
 
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I always study the TACs and Sectionals for landmark reporting points. Makes it a snap for the controller to locate you if you can say "Over Lower Otay Lake" or whatever. I know it's not always possible, especially in an unfamiliar area where the landmarks might be harder to identify.
 
Velocity173 said:
Personally, I'd use a wake up.

"Bolton tower Censsna 12377R."
"Cessna 12377R Bolton tower, go ahead."
"Cessna 12377R, 9 miles east, information Romeo, full stop."
"Cessna 77R, enter left base runway 22."

You're depiction from left to right is SW, SW and S. I think you're getting a bit overly concerned about exact position. Most likely Bolton has some sort of radar feed from CMH so they should have your location anyway.
Click to expand...
This. Unless you have a GPS you're not going to know your exact distance from the field and it really doesn't matter, just estimate the best you can. He knew right where you were in your example, OP. Just follow his/her instructions.
 
I'd call the left one West of CMH, the other two Southwest.

To make it easy, if you're flying towards the airport, you can read your position off the bottom of your DG. I report the nearest heading: cardinals or intermediates only, anything beyond that is too much inaccurate detail.
 
Palmpilot said:
When I plot a course line from the airport reference point to the location of aircraft #1, I get a bearing of 258 degrees. That's 12 degrees from west, and 33 degrees from southwest, so it's closer to west than southwest.
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Palmpilot said:
That's more precision than I feel is needed, but I don't object if others want to do it.
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Shoot man your post was way too precise! And you're banging on FastEddie?! :eek:
 
Hit nearest on the GPS and look at the course to the airport. Put that in the BOTTOM of the VOR head. Read off the TOP of the VOR head and that is your radial from the airport. Or round it off to the nearest cardinal direction.
 
Dont overthink it.

I stick with the 8 bacis options...N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W or NW...and even then its there abouts.

"Bolton Twr, Cessna 12377R, 9 miles from the southwest with Charlie."
 
iflyvfr said:
Ok, I've sat on this question long enough and I've not seen it asked before. I don't have a CFI or a controller buddy I can call up and discuss so here goes: TZR has runways 04/22. If you are at one of the three positions depicted in the attached and you are inbound, what does your call up sound like?

"Bolton Twr, Cessna 12377R, 9 miles ? ? inbound with Charlie." Fill in the Primary Cardinal or InterCardinal direction. For example, how would you report your position if you're sitting in the center aircraft? You're essentially straight in for runway 4, assuming that's the active.

And for the example of the right aircraft, are you "South East of the field inbound or are you East"?

I am never quite sure 100% what the controller interprets my direction to be. I am frequently in the right a/c position and report SE of the field. Last week I did this and was told report left base runway 22 (winds were from the SE when I landed). That made me think he thought I was further East when I was further South. Yet, from my perspective, I am reporting my position RELATIVE to the field. Am I doing it wrong?
Click to expand...
If you want the most precise interpretation, use the most precise position report.

People stick to these...
N/S/E/W
NW/NE/SE/SW

...when all of these options should be considered, especially during periods of high traffic:
N/NNE/NE/ENE/ESE/SE/SSE/S/SSW/SW/WSW/W/WNW/NW/NNW
 
Harold Rutila said:
If you want the most precise interpretation, use the most precise position report.
Click to expand...

"Bolton Twr, Cessna 12377R, 9.3 miles bearing 258 degrees from your position, inbound with Charlie."
(it's a G1000 equipped Cessna, right?)
 
my tower doesn't have a radar feed...and they use these position reports to get the mental picture of the traffic and where each will be entering the airport environment.

I also like to provide a lil extra.....bug smasher 123 9 out to the east with romeo.....over the cement plant.

That landmark reinforces my location.
Velocity173 said:
Personally, I'd use a wake up.

"Bolton tower Censsna 12377R."
"Cessna 12377R Bolton tower, go ahead."
"Cessna 12377R, 9 miles east, information Romeo, full stop."
"Cessna 77R, enter left base runway 22."

You're depiction from left to right is SW, SW and S. I think you're getting a bit overly concerned about exact position. Most likely Bolton has some sort of radar feed from CMH so they should have your location anyway.
Click to expand...
 
Easiest for me to know where I am in relation to the airport is to look at my DG or HSI. When I'm flying to the airport I'm obviously flying directly at it, unless I'm on vectors from approach, etc...

So the airport direction will be my heading. Take the 180 opposite of that and that's what I call up. I "round" to the closest cardinal direction. For example a heading of 170 would be south, etc...

Don't make it more complicated then it has to be.
 
iflyvfr said:
I am never quite sure 100% what the controller interprets my direction to be. I am frequently in the right a/c position and report SE of the field. Last week I did this and was told report left base runway 22 (winds were from the SE when I landed). That made me think he thought I was further East when I was further South. Yet, from my perspective, I am reporting my position RELATIVE to the field. Am I doing it wrong?
Click to expand...
Is that the part that's confusing you? It's just the controller telling you to enter and fly your pattern, and let him know when you're on base. It doesn't really have anything to do with your current position.
 
Caramon13 said:
So the airport direction will be my heading. Take the 180 opposite of that and that's what I call up. I "round" to the closest cardinal direction. For example a heading of 170 would be south, etc...
Click to expand...

One quick word of caution to this approach is that it only works when you're pointing directly at the airport. If you're at a non-towered airport and making an initial call and maneuvering for a 45 degree pattern entry, you're probably not pointing directly at the airport.

With that being said, I took a lot of pressure off of myself by remembering that in a non-towered environment you're giving other pilots a general idea of where you are and what you're doing (they aren't going to see you for another couple minutes anyway) and if you're going into a towered airport they'll either have you on radar or they may ask that you report again over a landmark where they KNOW they can see you.

Keep it simple, be as accurate as it makes sense to be, but definitely do NOT overthink it.
 
iflyvfr said:
Ok, I've sat on this question long enough and I've not seen it asked before. I don't have a CFI or a controller buddy I can call up and discuss so here goes: TZR has runways 04/22. If you are at one of the three positions depicted in the attached and you are inbound, what does your call up sound like?

"Bolton Twr, Cessna 12377R, 9 miles ? ? inbound with Charlie." Fill in the Primary Cardinal or InterCardinal direction. For example, how would you report your position if you're sitting in the center aircraft? You're essentially straight in for runway 4, assuming that's the active.

And for the example of the right aircraft, are you "South East of the field inbound or are you East"?

I am never quite sure 100% what the controller interprets my direction to be. I am frequently in the right a/c position and report SE of the field. Last week I did this and was told report left base runway 22 (winds were from the SE when I landed). That made me think he thought I was further East when I was further South. Yet, from my perspective, I am reporting my position RELATIVE to the field. Am I doing it wrong?
Click to expand...

I see west, southwest and south. The south one is a little east of south but I wouldn't call that southeast. Controllers pretty much work with the 8 cardinal points. Traffic permitting I'd have given you the base entry after you said you were southeast. Like has been said it don't need to be precise. Just make it pass the logic check.
 
mscard88 said:
One is south-southeast, one is south-southwest (both of these you could get by just saying south), and one is southwest. As you said, from the field. So you could say "south" for the first 2, and "southwest" for the other one. If the controller tells you to report left base for 22, you'd maneuver to a downwind, unless the controller gave you a heading. Does help at all? If not, I'll try again.
Click to expand...
Actually, it's almost exactly south, not southeast. Remember, magnetic. See the nearby VOR rose.
 
MAKG1 said:
Actually, it's almost exactly south, not southeast. Remember, magnetic. See the nearby VOR rose.
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Man y'all are serious. Listen, all you have to say is your general location, for example, sw, ne, s, n, does not have to be exact. When I controlled I didn't care for a plane's exact location, just general idea. Then if I had a radar display in the tower cab I most likely would be able to see his return and track towards the land of concrete.
 
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mscard88 said:
Man y'all are serious. Listen, all you have to say is your general location, for example, sw, ne, s, n, does not have to be exact. When I controlled I didn't care for a plane's exact location, just general idea. Then if I had a radar display in the tower cab I most likely would be able to his return and track.
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Yep. Worst case they'll say, Cessna 12345 I show you XX miles south of the airport, enter the left downwind for runway XX. Not a big deal.
 
jordane93 said:
Yep. Worst case they'll say, Cessna 12345 I show you XX miles south of the airport, enter the left downwind for runway XX. Not a big deal.
Click to expand...

Exactly! But this is POA, everybody knows the best method...
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
my tower doesn't have a radar feed...and they use these position reports to get the mental picture of the traffic and where each will be entering the airport environment.

I also like to provide a lil extra.....bug smasher 123 9 out to the east with romeo.....over the cement plant.

That landmark reinforces my location.
Click to expand...

Yeah specific visual reporting points help when there isn't radar. I don't want the OP to believe that TZR is radar identifying aircraft and providing radar services either. Even if TZR has radar is just an assist to identify him and not provide specific radar traffic advisories.

As long as he is reporting his quadrant and distance from the field, they can look up and see his relative position from the field. If there's more than one target in that area, they request further reports to whittle down their exact positions. If he wants to report an exact radial or bearing from the field, that's fine but not necessary. I'd say an accurate distance is more important than specific direction anyway. Just don't want the OP to over think it. Position doesn't become that critical until he enters the D.
 
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