Repairman's Cert

Discussion in 'Home Builders and Sport Pilots' started by Stewartb, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Not true..
    When there is no criteria to be the prime builder, how would it be a fraud to put in for it.

    When no one else has put in for it, and you did some of the building including the supervision why would it be a fraud?

    When you can't show me how much of the build is required to qualify for the prime builder. how can you call it a fraud?
     
  2. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route

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    The context here, Tom, was your premise that someone (you, IIRC) could build an airplane and have the buyer apply for the repairman's certificate. The act of signing that form, and indicating the buyer constructed a "major portion" or whatever the terminology is on the document, would constitute fraud.

    And I know you'd shape shift your argument, but anyone with a brain sees through it...
     
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  3. tsts4

    tsts4 Line Up and Wait

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    So which is it -- did they actually build or not? Please make up your mind as you seem to be changing your argument, as predicted. First you say all they have to do is supervise, now you've changed it to build and supervise. Where in the 65.104 or FAA Form 8310-12 is the word supervise used to define eligibility?
     
  4. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Where have I changed my view?
    There is no criteria saying how much of the project the repairman must do in order to qualify for the certificate.
    If there is, show it to me.
    There are many documented cases where a teacher had a class build the aircraft and the teacher got the R/C
     
  5. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    There is no major portion required,As long as you were involved with the build in anyway you can get the R/C, you are not required to do a single task.
    On many occasions the kit buyer has given the kit over to the builder, and only supervised the build. and it is looked upon by the FAA as legal.
    Using a Van's RV kit as an example, you can have one guy rivet it to gather, then take the kit to another shop for the interior, and a different shop for the wiring, and a engine shop to have the engine installed, and an entirely different place do the radios. You will still qualify for the Repairmans certificate.
    The FAA actually encourages that.
     
  6. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Data tags have a way of getting changed.

    Now tell me when the aircraft is completed, Most are never done, with that in mind, why wouldn't a new owner qualify?
     
  7. tsts4

    tsts4 Line Up and Wait

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    Ahh so you admit they have to be a builder then -- good. To answer your question it came from your own posts which I quoted. In one post you claimed all they had to do is supervise, and in the other one you state build and supervise. As for your example, how do you know that those teachers didn't do some of the work, even as little as setting one rivet or deburring a single hole (were you that teacher)? In any event, even if they didn't, "they" still had to be listed as a builder. If they are willing to state they are a builder without having actually built anything on the project, so be it. I, in good conscience could not do that, but that's just me.

    Again, where does any FAA document state that "supervision" makes you eligible? Please state the ref, page, and para number. No one is saying there is a defined minimum level of participation to be considered a builder for 65.104/8130-12 purposes so you can let that argument die. If you want to debate whether the FAA has implied some level of participation, OK but that's a philosophical discussion not germane to the current topic.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  8. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    What ever you like, my views on this have not changed, you say it came from my post but fail to quote them.
    When you can't keep up with the conversation don't try to blame me.

    I believe that every one knows I do not advocate that anyone make false statements on any FAA form. But when the FAA has no criteria on what constitutes a builder. How can it be wrong to take advantage of the rule or lack of it.

    When the word "Supervision " is used it must be quoted in context. Many kit owners use this as a method of getting their aircraft built, They dictate what shop does what, and when, and are considered by the FAA as the primary builder even tho they never do a single task. they simply supervise who does what.
     
  9. tsts4

    tsts4 Line Up and Wait

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    Nice try -- I quoted them in post 123. Don't blame me if you were caught flip-flopping, which you routinely do. Being listed as a builder is the only thing that counts. Define builder however you want and let your conscience be your guide.
     
  10. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    hat amounts to a lie, not a single quote in post 123, Sorry sonny not buying it .
     
  11. tsts4

    tsts4 Line Up and Wait

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    BS -- I multi-quoted in post 123. Are you frigging blind or just challenged? Not buying your crap either gramps.
     
  12. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    you best look again.
    because all you really did was to create thread creep. by trying to change the subject.
     
  13. tsts4

    tsts4 Line Up and Wait

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    Nope-- you did. I can do this back and forth as long as you want.
     
  14. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    When you don't even understand the basic concept of supervising the building of a project, How would you ever understand the explanation.
    Simply a waste of time conversing with you.
     
  15. tsts4

    tsts4 Line Up and Wait

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    LOL—this is good comedy. Got any more witty barbs? Come on — explain it to me. I’m listening, err reading. IBTL!
     
  16. donjohnston

    donjohnston Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Wait... So you're saying that you didn't write the post that tsts4 quoted in post 123???
     
  17. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

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    @Tom-D -- several DAR's contribute to VAF frequently. Perhaps your original question can be posted there and a definitive update can be made here.

    I don't know if anyone from a FSDO contributes to either forum. They probably should, though, for laughs. I can just seem them printing out posts from here and pinning them up in the coffee room for grins.
     
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  18. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

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    It would also be interesting to see these questions posted on the EAA forums, and the responses there too.
     
  19. Stewartb

    Stewartb En-Route

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    Part 17 of the link talks about the repairman cert. The other parts are also interesting, if you prefer info over internet mumbo jumbo. :)
     

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    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017