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Bro do you even lift
Yes. What's your point?
Go back and read the comments and my reply, it should be pretty self explanatory.
Yes. What's your point?
I said they owe an explanation if they want to engage in an unreasonably dangerous activity on front of crowds. You asked if I meant the friends that buy tickets. I said yes, and asked what your point was. It's not self explanatory because there's plenty of stuff we don't allow people to sell tickets to. Do you think the situation is different if people buy tickets and go voluntary?Go back and read the comments and my reply, it should be pretty self explanatory.
I said they owe an explanation if they want to engage in an unreasonably dangerous activity on front of crowds. You asked if I meant the friends that buy tickets. I said yes, and asked what your point was. Do you think the situation is different if people buy tickets and go voluntary?
Nothing against “rich” people, not sure how you came to that from reading my post. I just find it amusing people claim the racing is for innovation, as it we’re going to learn anything from racing 80 year old planes in a oval.I think they don’t owe someone sitting on their couch posting on POA an explanation of why they do anything.
As said, they want to use public resources and do it in front of crowds. And people are regularly killed. So yeah they should explain why they sound be allowed to keep it up.I think they don’t owe someone sitting on their couch posting on POA an explanation of why they do anything.
As said, they want to use public resources and do it in front of crowds. And people are regularly killed. So yeah they should explain why they sound be allowed to keep it up.
it was pretty easy. you said it, that's how I got it. kind of like how you got the idea that it's for innovation...because someone said that.Nothing against “rich” people, not sure how you came to that from reading my post.
And car racing? You want to get rid of that too? Motorcycle racing? Bicycle racing?
Where's your line?
This is the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time. Since when does a sport need to justify it's self!?!? There were as many people or more killed in Auto racing over the years as air racing.As said, they want to use public resources and do it in front of crowds. And people are regularly killed. So yeah they should explain why they sound be allowed to keep it up.
Don't hate on what you don't understand. How many iterations of the lightbulb didn't work before one did? Tinkering isn't always successful, but when it is, it can be revolutionary.That said, the announcers kept trying to peddle it as trickle down innovation which is a load of BS these days. It's a HP war in most classes and most other speed secrets are impractical or have been a known entity since the dawn of computers.
That said, the announcers kept trying to peddle it as trickle down innovation which is a load of BS these days. It's a HP war in most classes and most other speed secrets are impractical or have been a known entity since the dawn of computers.
And you know this how? How many races does Formula 1 run per year? 23? So they get 23 changes to make changes, tweak, and actually race every year to develop and test their innovation efforts. It would literally take 23 years to do an equivalent number of Reno races. That's not a fair comparison. I know one of the Sport class competitors who was flying a Lancair and won some of his heats and it's disappointing to see other pilots poo-pooing the guys who are actually trying to innovate.
The Reno air races have more in common with the SCCA Runoffs than with Formula 1.
In the past 15 years, has car racing killed more spectators than drivers? Does it kill as many people per mile/race/whatever metric?This is the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time. Since when does a sport need to justify it's self!?!? There were as many people or more killed in Auto racing over the years as air racing.
Airports, airspace, town infrastructure, etc.What “public resources”? I honestly am not sure what this refers to.
Airports, airspace, town infrastructure, etc.
Airports, airspace, town infrastructure, etc.
And you know this how? How many races does Formula 1 run per year? 23? So they get 23 changes to make changes, tweak, and actually race every year to develop and test their innovation efforts. It would literally take 23 years to do an equivalent number of Reno races. That's not a fair comparison. I know one of the Sport class competitors who was flying a Lancair and won some of his heats and it's disappointing to see other pilots poo-pooing the guys who are actually trying to innovate.
Six Cat descended into 14 on the downwind to base turn, so nothing to do with the race. 14's tail and left ailerron were completely ripped off. A photographer friend of mine sent me a photo of it diving into the ground. Like with the B17 crash, it's hard to envision these tough old warbirds being torn in half.From the reporting so far: 1 witness: "The T-6s were forming up on their base leg which is right over our head, and I hear a sound unexpected. Race was over-camera stowed, I looked up to see debris from the light colored aircraft fluttering away from the area as the aircraft spiraled nose down approx 500 yards from me. The blue colored T-6, I believe, went nose down just over a hill. So sad." A YouTube live saw the event and reported a tail was severed. Another scanner report: "Debris field by Coyote Run Ct near White Owl. Civilians not injured on scanner report but they’re picking up debris." That is outside the airport boundary fence. This was after the race. The pace plane and the plane with a passenger who won a raffle were not involved and went to an orbit at 7,500 feet. All six planes in the Gold heat finished the race.
I forgot the whole thing about people being permitted to do whatever they want with airplanes at airports and no one being allowed to have an opinion about it or think it should be regulated. I guess that probably rules out about 90% of the conversations on this website, eh?I could be wrong, but airports are where airplanes fly in and out of, no? and airspace is meant for airplanes to fly in, no?
On the contrary, since the airport/city decided it never wants to do them again, it appears that no amount of arm pulling was enough.I'm guessing here but I'm assuming no one's arm had to be pulled to host the races.
Is jet innovation inherently more valuable than something that might go in a new Cirrus? Seems like a really elitist perspective. I'm happy for innovations that might improve reliability, efficiency, and performance of our little bug smashers. If aviation wasn't valuable for saving time, why do so many executives have private planes?I'm glad the Lancair guy is trying to be creative, but the aviation technology frontier is way ahead of him. How likely is it that whatever he comes up with will find its way into a modern jet?
Nothing against “rich” people, not sure how you came to that from reading my post. I just find it amusing people claim the racing is for innovation, as it we’re going to learn anything from racing 80 year old planes in a oval.
The races are done as a sport/competition for rich people. The racing association doesn’t host the race for fun. It brings in money and that’s pretty much the root of everyone’s decisions.
I do have a problem with the people on the ground who can be killed instantly from crashes like this. Not talking solely about spectators, but the people who live hundreds of yards away minding their own business in their homes. It shouldn’t be happening anywhere near people’s homes.
Absolutely it has! In fact a quick google search tallied up more spectator deaths since 2019 than all of air racing combined. That's not even counting the drivers/riders that have perished. The majority of the spectator deaths at Reno were a result of one incident.In the past 15 years, has car racing killed more spectators than drivers? Does it kill as many people per mile/race/whatever metric?
What about bull fighting (or cock fighting)? Boxing death matches? Televised Russian Roulette? The fact that people voluntary engage in, or spectate, an activity isn't an argument against regulating or banning it.
I also feel for the sport class guys; that feels like the every man's accessible side of the sport. For those reasons I hope they find a new venue and continue the event, although I also feel like the likelihood of that took a huge hit yesterday.
I think you illustrated the issue. Nothing these guys are doing is in pursuit of improved reliability or efficiency. The performance gains aren't really applicable to GA. GA also isn't focused on any of those metrics these days, it's all about safety, comfort, and cost.Is jet innovation inherently more valuable than something that might go in a new Cirrus? Seems like a really elitist perspective. I'm happy for innovations that might improve reliability, efficiency, and performance of our little bug smashers. If aviation wasn't valuable for saving time, why do so many executives have private planes?
Maybe not the only one, but I would think in the minority. With no air shows, and no races, if it keeps up the only warbirds you may see are static displays in a museum.
I think you're wrong.I think you illustrated the issue. Nothing these guys are doing is in pursuit of improved reliability or efficiency. The performance gains aren't really applicable to GA. GA also isn't focused on any of those metrics these days, it's all about safety, comfort, and cost.
I would be interested in a comparison of accident and fatality rates between those types of racing and air races. Does anyone have that data?And car racing? You want to get rid of that too? Motorcycle racing? Bicycle racing?
Where's your line?
Why can’t we just be honest with ourselves? This “sport” is nothing more than a bunch of rich guys who have just a little too much money, coupled with just a little too much time. It’s entertainment and a competition to see who can be bigger and “badder”.
If you call that innovation, then so be it.
We are talking engines pushing 3 times their rated HP. I don't think Lycoming or Continental are going to make any design changes because one of their IO540/550's pushing 800 plus HP for 6 minutes had a come apart. There isn't a fuel limitation so I don't buy the efficiency part. I talked with Andrew once at Oshkosh and even he said 95% of being competitive was squeezing the most out of the engine without a catastrophe. Last year the top two guys lost because their engines failed not because they didn't have the cleanest airframe.I think you're wrong.
Reliability is part of making a race engine survive. Durablity, too. The problem with the one major accident that hit the stands was because a piece of the trim tab wasn't sufficiently strong.
Efficiency is definitely part of the game as well, and that trickles down for sure.
Lancair Aircraft - Lancair International, LLC
An American Aircraft Company, located in Uvalde, Texas.lancair.com
I for one don't understand why some of y'all are so hostile towards these guys!
Isn't there a lot more auto racing than air racing? The data need to be expressed as a percentage of participation in each activity in order to provide a meaningful comparison.... There were as many people or more killed in Auto racing over the years as air racing...
My apologies. I got confused in the thread and I though you were the one who said: "Am I the only one glad to see these races come to an end?"Show me where I ever said I want to get rid of anything.
I raced cars myself. I love racing. I merely said innovation isn’t a justification for it. Frankly, I don’t think it needs justification. Some things we do merely because we want to, and that’s enough.
Yes there is and no it doesn't. The comment was expressed that this one race is somehow so deadly that it should be canceled. There have been 155 fatalities at the isle of man race alone. You could even say that EAA Airventure is a more deadly event than Reno! There were at least 4 people killed at Airventure this year so I guess it should be shut down because it's twice as deadly.Isn't there a lot more auto racing than air racing? The data need to be expressed as a percentage of participation in each activity in order to provide a meaningful comparison.
Nothing against “rich” people, not sure how you came to that from reading my post. I just find it amusing people claim the racing is for innovation, as it we’re going to learn anything from racing 80 year old planes in a oval.
The races are done as a sport/competition for rich people. The racing association doesn’t host the race for fun. It brings in money and that’s pretty much the root of everyone’s decisions.
I do have a problem with the people on the ground who can be killed instantly from crashes like this. Not talking solely about spectators, but the people who live hundreds of yards away minding their own business in their homes. It shouldn’t be happening anywhere near people’s homes.
I don't understand. How do you determine whether the higher number of accidents is due to inherent risk of the activity vs. more participation in the activity?...no it doesn't...
Please show your data. According to this article, more than 520 people have died in car racing in the past 25 years, fewer than 50 of them spectators. And yet, there were and are constantly discussions about safety and improvements. I'm the past 15 years, Reno has killed way more spectators than pilots. But, "They don't owe you an explanation."Absolutely it has! In fact a quick google search tallied up more spectator deaths since 2019 than all of air racing combined. That's not even counting the drivers/riders that have perished. The majority of the spectator deaths at Reno were a result of one incident.
So you confirmed I was right and want more proof?Please show your data. According to this article, more than 520 people have died in car racing in the past 25 years, fewer than 50 of them spectators. And yet, there were and are constantly discussions about safety and improvements. I'm the past 15 years, Reno has killed way more spectators than pilots. But, "They don't owe you an explanation."
I for one don't understand why some of y'all are so hostile towards these guys!