Removing airport manager

[DJTorrente]

I make of it that they put branding on the front of the building, not the back, which seems pretty typical. Especially because the back actually faces apartment buildings, not a thoroughfare. What do you make of it?

When I worked in Crystal City, my organization had a sign facing the airport. Boeing has a building next to the Capitol's major domestic airport, serving 31,500 passengers a day. If they painted their logo on the roof, probably up to about half of those passengers could see it out their window on takeoff or landing. They obviously don't see a need for brand penetration among the flying public. Good looking well-lighted signage facing the Pentagon, though. See, "customers and stakeholders," above.

 

[midwestpa24]

They obviously don't see a need for brand penetration among the flying public.

The average member of "the flying public" couldn't tell you the difference between a Boeing and a Ford.

 

[Clip4]

While adding services jobs at a rate that more than compensated for those losses.

A simple AI search disagrees with you. “Chicago has not recovered its raw volume of factories or blue-collar jobs, which were lost to automation and globalization.”

Low paying service jobs equal low municipal tax revenues. Many of those service jobs contain employees on SNAP and other public assistance.

 

[Albany Tom]

When I was a teenager, I remember reading a story on the cover of Forbes or Fortune or something similar about the new "service economy". It didn't seem like a viable way to keep an economy running then, but I figured the adults must know something that I didn't. Well, they didn't.

Service jobs are just those to support whatever actual business is going on there. Not actually parasitic, but necessary bits to keep things moving. If there's no actual business going on, then it's kind of like the stone soup story.

 

[Lindberg]

When I worked in Crystal City, my organization had a sign facing the airport. Boeing has a building next to the Capitol's major domestic airport, serving 31,500 passengers a day. If they painted their logo on the roof, probably up to about half of those passengers could see it out their window on takeoff or landing. They obviously don't see a need for brand penetration among the flying public. Good looking well-lighted signage facing the Pentagon, though. See, "customers and stakeholders," above.

Well, window seats don't make up half of the seats on a plane. And only passengers on the planes departing or landing in the right direction during the day would see it. So maybe three to five thousand eyeballs per day at the high end? I'll bet the sign on the front of the building gets way more eyeballs than that. Plus the general flying public doesn't buy anything from Boeing.

 

[Rick A]

When I was a teenager, I remember reading a story on the cover of Forbes or Fortune or something similar about the new "service economy". It didn't seem like a viable way to keep an economy running then, but I figured the adults must know something that I didn't. Well, they didn't.

Service jobs are just those to support whatever actual business is going on there. Not actually parasitic, but necessary bits to keep things moving. If there's no actual business going on, then it's kind of like the stone soup story.

Gotta chuckle when someone comments how "vibrant" the economy is in many large American cities. As if handing out free money and benefits to live there and spend is reality... much of it funneled into the hands of these poor residents (whose lives are generally not so vibrant) by professional bureaucrats that don't have any idea of where the money that supports the entire house of cards comes from. Or even why and for whose benefit this entire economic system exists to benefit in the first place.

 

[DJTorrente]

Well, window seats don't make up half of the seats on a plane.

Agreed.

And only passengers on the planes departing or landing in the right direction

HQ is 1/2 mi. from the approach end of 15, but I'll grant you it would be easier to see departing to / arriving from the north.

OTOH:

during the day would see it.

See "lighted", above.

Plus the general flying public doesn't buy anything from Boeing.

The general public doesn't directly make the decisions about which prescription drugs they use, but that doesn't mean Big Pharma has found no value in advertising.

 

[172andyou]

A simple AI search disagrees with you. “Chicago has not recovered its raw volume of factories or blue-collar jobs, which were lost to automation and globalization.”

Did AI misunderstand the question? Or did you ask it the wrong thing? Because it's not responding to my statement.

I fed this to ChatGPT and it said, "Clip4 has this completely backwards. Chicago simply doesn't fit the rust belt decline narrative — in fact, it's practically the opposite. As you pointed out, Chicago has spent decades building a growing, diversified economy, which is precisely why it avoided the hollowing-out that gutted cities like Detroit and Cleveland"

 

[172andyou]

Gotta chuckle when someone comments how "vibrant" the economy is in many large American cities.

The per capita GDP of, for example, New York, Chicago and LA are all 100K, plus or minus a few grand.

Peoria is 75. Mesa is 80. Lincoln NE is 80. Waco is 50.

Just zooming around google maps and then looking up the economics seems to support that large american cities are much more vibrant than small and mid-sized cities.

What are you looking at that says something different?

 

[Rick A]

The general public doesn't directly make the decisions about which prescription drugs they use, but that doesn't mean Big Pharma has found no value in advertising.

Great point. I always wondered "how come?" all those "ask you Doctor" commercials exist? Then looked into it.

IMO, the most logical speculative answer out there I could find was that big pharma was by far the largest customer of the advertising industry that creates and airs mainstream and internet delivered drug commercials. This floods the networks with so much advertising spending that none of these media outlets would dare report on anything negative that would bite the hand that feeds them.

 

[midwestpa24]

The per capita GDP of, for example, New York, Chicago and LA are all 100K, plus or minus a few grand.

Peoria is 75. Mesa is 80. Lincoln NE is 80. Waco is 50.

Just zooming around google maps and then looking up the economics seems to support that large american cities are much more vibrant than small and mid-sized cities.

What are you looking at that says something different?

What is the ratio of per capita GDP per metro area versus average cost of living?

 

[Rick A]

What are you looking at that says something different?

Maybe I am. At first glance, I believe these income statistics are likely calculated off government supplied income tax data provided by people with legitimate jobs and reported incomes. I.E., income withholding taken from paychecks, or what's declared to the IRS and State tax authorities.

Without knowing the sources and formulas used to establish these income numbers you've provided, and who is, or who is not included in the published calculations, the numbers can easily be presented and used for promoting an agenda... like the more you pay in taxes, the more vibrant your city life will become.

The biggest factors that can negatively affect your life (and freedoms) usually go unreported. Or are only reported with a slant to promote an agenda, that typically favors growing the size and influence of government as a good thing (for your safety and vibrance).

 

[172andyou]

I believe these income statistics are likely calculated off government supplied income tax data provided by people with legitimate jobs and reported incomes. I.E., income withholding taken from paychecks, or what's declared to the IRS and State tax authorities.

That is not how GDP is calculated. But that explains why you think cities are not economically vibrant, which was my question.

 

[M20K]

The average member of "the flying public" couldn't tell you the difference between a Boeing and a Ford.

Ah come on, sure they can! The Ford Tri-Motor is much smaller and even with all the complaints today, they'd really notice the lack of comfort with those old style seats! Not to mention the noise, it would totally mess up watching that movie on their iPad. Oh wait... no WiFi on the Ford Tri-Motor.

 

[Racerx]

Holy thread drift batman

 

[MauleSkinner]

The Ford Tri-Motor is much smaller and even with all the complaints today, they'd really notice the lack of comfort with those old style seats!

Have you ever sat in an original tri-motor seat?

 

[Rick A]

That is not how GDP is calculated. But that explains why you think cities are not economically vibrant, which was my question.

My apologies. So then, please be kind enough and explain how GDP per city is determined, and how that number relates to the amount of "Vibrancy" afforded to the inhabitants of these large American cities.

 

[Gilbert Buettner]

Have you ever sat in an original tri-motor seat?

I don't know if it was original. It was wicker. This was the Kalamazoo Air Zoo's Trimotor.

 

[pfarber]

Just zooming around google maps and then looking up the economics seems to support that large american cities are much more vibrant than small and mid-sized cities.

In my small/mid-sized city I have yet to have a homeless / mentally ill guy damage my (rental) car in my hometown, nor have I had to pay over $6 a gallon for gas in my 'less than vibrant' mid size city.

LA/SFO/Chicago/NYC/Memphis and quite a few more cities need to be nuked from orbit. Its the only way to be sure.

 

[Clip4]

Did AI misunderstand the question? Or did you ask it the wrong thing? Because it's not responding to my statement.

I fed this to ChatGPT and it said, "Clip4 has this completely backwards. Chicago simply doesn't fit the rust belt decline narrative — in fact, it's practically the opposite. As you pointed out, Chicago has spent decades building a growing, diversified economy, which is precisely why it avoided the hollowing-out that gutted cities like Detroit and Cleveland"

Chat GPT, What major cities are rust belt ciites?

Some of the major Rust Belt cities include:

• Detroit — historically the center of the U.S. auto industry.
• Cleveland — known for steel, manufacturing, and shipping on the Great Lakes.
• Pittsburgh — once a global center of steel production.
• Buffalo — an important industrial and transportation hub.
• Youngstown — heavily dependent on steel manufacturing.
• Toledo — known for manufacturing and the glass industry.
• Akron — historically associated with tire and rubber production.
• Gary — built around the steel industry.
• Milwaukee — a major manufacturing center.
• Erie — historically focused on manufacturing and shipping.

Larger metropolitan areas often considered part of the Rust Belt include:

• Chicago
• Cincinnati
• St. Louis
• Rochester
• Syracuse

Wikipedia

Major Rust Belt cities include: [1]

• Detroit, Michigan (The historic heart of the U.S. auto industry)
• Chicago, Illinois (A major transportation and manufacturing hub)
• Cleveland, Ohio (Historically renowned for steel and heavy manufacturing)
• Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (Famed as the "Steel City")
• Buffalo, New York (A major manufacturing and shipping gateway)
• Milwaukee, Wisconsin (A center for machinery and brewing)
• Cincinnati, Ohio (A historically massive industrial and trade center)
• St. Louis, Missouri (An industrial and transit hub connecting to the Mississippi)
• Rochester, New York (A historic center for optics, imaging, and manufacturing)
• Baltimore, Maryland

 

[172andyou]

LA/SFO/Chicago/NYC/Memphis and quite a few more cities need to be nuked from orbit. Its the only way to be sure.

Those five cities, ignoring "quite a few more", already account for 17% of the US economy. Said another way, they have a combined GDP of 4.6T. That's more than any US state, including California which is the largest at 4T.

 

[M20K]

Have you ever sat in an original tri-motor seat?

I believe most (if not all) were wicker. Great for a while, but have you ever had to sit through a very long presentation on wicker seats?

 

[Rick A]

Those five cities, ignoring "quite a few more", already account for 17% of the US economy. Said another way, they have a combined GDP of 4.6T. That's more than any US state, including California which is the largest at 4T.

So what? How's that make any of them "vibrant" and something for humanity to enjoy more of, compared to locations having less?

 

[MauleSkinner]

I don't know if it was original. It was wicker. This was the Kalamazoo Air Zoo's Trimotor.

I believe most (if not all) were wicker. Great for a while, but have you ever had to sit through a very long presentation on wicker seats?

I’ve found the wicker seats that I’ve sat in to be far more comfortable than any modern airline seat.

 

[Bob Noel]

I’ve found the wicker seats that I’ve sat in to be far more comfortable than any modern airline seat.

pretty low bar...

 

[MauleSkinner]

pretty low bar...

Absolutely. I don’t know why anyone would think wicker tri-motor seats would be worse.

 

[Lindberg]

In my small/mid-sized city I have yet to have a homeless / mentally ill guy damage my (rental) car in my hometown, nor have I had to pay over $6 a gallon for gas in my 'less than vibrant' mid size city.

LA/SFO/Chicago/NYC/Memphis and quite a few more cities need to be nuked from orbit. Its the only way to be sure.

How did Memphis get on a list of supposedly large cities?

 

[172andyou]

So what? How's that make any of them "vibrant" and something for humanity to enjoy more of, compared to locations having less?

Remember, this started with the absurd assertion that Chicago shut down meigs because it's a dying rustbelt city that couldn't afford to keep it. That's why economics matter.

As for whether cities or rural areas are 'better'... Depends entirely on what someone values.

Cities have better paying jobs, better access to health care, museums, better restaurants, vastly better live music scenes, more diversity, more schools/universities, public transportation, better infrastructure.

Some people value those things.

Rural areas are more affordable, have more space, some areas have lower crime (others are among the highest, so choose carefully), more sense of community, less pollution, less noise, no congestion, slower pace of life.

Some people value those things.

But it seems clear that the things that bring people to cities can be easily labeled as vibrant and the ones that draw people to the sticks are more like serene, tranquil, placid, restful...

I've had decades of experience in both. When I was younger I preferred the vibrance of cities. Now that I'm in my dotage I prefer the affordability and peace of rural areas.

How did Memphis get on a list of supposedly large cities?

Yeah, I chuckled at that also. But I looked it up and it's 600K in the city proper and 1.3M in the metro. So big enough that I decided not to address that outlier. Probably OP just had a bad night in Memphis at some point and it's been on his s*** list ever since.

 

[Lindberg]

Yeah, I chuckled at that also. But I looked it up and it's 600K in the city proper and 1.3M in the metro. So big enough that I decided not to address that outlier. Probably OP just had a bad night in Memphis at some point and it's been on his s*** list ever since.

So just a little bigger than half the size of Fort Worth.....

 

[172andyou]

So just a little bigger than half the size of Fort Worth.....

Yeah, city to city, half the size. Metro to metro, one eighth the size. Dallas/Ft. Worth/Arlington is almost a mega city with 8.5m people. 1.5m to go!

 

[Half Fast]

City population is mostly a function of where the city limits are drawn. Metro area is more meaningful. Orlando has a population of only about 300k, but the last time I did a head count the metro area was around 3M.

 

[Racerx]

the last time I did a head count the metro area was around 3M.

You need a new retirement hobby. I hear airplanes are fun.

 

[172andyou]

You need a new retirement hobby. I hear airplanes are fun.

"Congrats on your retirement! What are you going to do to keep busy?"

"Informal census taking"

 

[Rick A]

The per capita GDP of, for example, New York, Chicago and LA are all 100K, plus or minus a few grand.

Peoria is 75. Mesa is 80. Lincoln NE is 80. Waco is 50.

Just zooming around google maps and then looking up the economics seems to support that large american cities are much more vibrant than small and mid-sized cities.

But it seems clear that the things that bring people to cities can be easily labeled as vibrant and the ones that draw people to the sticks are more like serene, tranquil, placid, restful...

My point is there is at best a fuzzy connection between a location's GDP and whatever reasons there are to migrate there to live it.

Life is wherever you choose to live it, whether appreciated or not. Regardless of the calculation of its GDP, or someone's formula rating the "Best place to live".

 

[Lindberg]

Yeah, city to city, half the size. Metro to metro, one eighth the size. Dallas/Ft. Worth/Arlington is almost a mega city with 8.5m people. 1.5m to go!

If we're going by MSA, Memphis is even further down the list; it just barely makes the top 50.

 

[172andyou]

If we're going by MSA, Memphis is even further down the list; it just barely makes the top 50.

Metropolitan statistical area - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yeah, #45. I'm glad you said that, I had been looking the handful mentioned above individually. Interesting to look at a table of them and seeing where things sit.

 

[DJTorrente]

The per capita GDP of, for example, New York, Chicago and LA are all 100K, plus or minus a few grand.

Peoria is 75. Mesa is 80. Lincoln NE is 80. Waco is 50.

Just zooming around google maps and then looking up the economics seems to support that large american cities are much more vibrant than small and mid-sized cities.

What are you looking at that says something different?

I played this game earlier in my life. If you earn $20k more per year, but your basic living expenses (housing, groceries, transportaiton, etc.) are $30k more per year -- "What profit a man?" For the vast majority, the urban metro lifestyle is transient at best.

To the point that, the last time I rode a NYC subway (I was seeking to scratch that death-defying itch that BASE jumping just can't reach), the subway car was plastered with ads begging people not to move away. Do you suppose they were targeted at the Wall Street billionaires who ride the subway?

 

[M20K]

Do you suppose they were targeted at the Wall Street billionaires who ride the subway?

Nope. Targeted at the work force that moved away in COVID and now is being coaxed back to staying in NYC. Or at least their replacements that are going into the office now (or back into the office).

Not sure what the numbers are now, but post COVID a **LOT** of real estate was empty. Companies were still paying the rent, but a soon as those leases were up, many were not renewing. The city really needs them to come back for those tax dollars of either money earned in NYC or from the taxes on everyday spending. And you pay different taxes if the money is earned in NYC, in NYS or out of state. So it doesn't help the city if the company has offices somewhere else in NYS and you are working remotely out of the city, you can be attached to that other office and both you and the company can cut the NYC income/payroll taxes. (And yes, before accountant start yelling, you do have to be careful about how you do it. But it can save you and the company money and NYC looses out.)

ADDED: And let's not forget that NYS is one of the few (only?) state where the taxes are no longer deductible from your Federal taxes. That too drove a lot of people out of NYC and NYS and then when COVID hit it was just one more reason to move away.

 

[Lindberg]

I played this game earlier in my life. If you earn $20k more per year, but your basic living expenses (housing, groceries, transportaiton, etc.) are $30k more per year -- "What profit a man?" For the vast majority, the urban metro lifestyle is transient at best.

Some people would pay more to look at corn. Some people want to look at mountains. Some want to look at the beach. Some want museums and opera houses. The law and supply and demand says that it costs more to live in cities because the demand for available resources is higher there.

 

[172andyou]

To the point that, the last time I rode a NYC subway (I was seeking to scratch that death-defying itch that BASE jumping just can't reach), the subway car was plastered with ads begging people not to move away.

FWIW: The image you posted isn't begging people to not move away. It's an apartment search company that helps people find apartments in a market where demand outpaces supply.