Remind me again why I still live in Michigan...

Art Rose said:
And it's a well deserved attitude. Because. Everything IS BETTER in Texas. We have our own independent electric grid, no State income tax, and in 45 minutes I can fly to the coast and play dirty old man on the beach. I too used to travel extensively for work, and have worked projects for a week or two at a time in small municipals and school districts all throughout the state of Oklahoma. I've experienced the grand circle air tour around the Tulsa area, and made the weekly visits to the Indian casinos. I've also spent plenty of time and my money trying to get somewhere on your wore out old toll roads. I have a choice if I want to use a toll road, and the one near Austin has a 85 mph speed limit. Most everywhere else, away from the cities, it's 75, and from Kerrville to El Paso it's 80. And there's no DPS man sitting around every corner waiting to write you a ticket like there is in red dirt country. It's a good thing to be proud of where you live, and if you want to pick and choose, yea, sure Oklahoma has a lot of things the same as Texas, but a Texas it aint. Not even close.
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Independent electric grid: not even sure what the hell that's supposed to mean. Good, I guess? Are you saying that Oklahoma doesn't generate it's own electricity? I'm not sure why that's a talking point.
No state income tax: again, good, maybe? Texas property taxes far outweigh OK property taxes, so it's pretty much a wash when everything is said and done.
Fly to the beach: You can fly 45 minutes, it's about 1hr 30 minutes for me to fly from Tulsa. So, congrats on saving about an hour?
Toll roads: I'm not sure why you think they're "wore out", they're actually in great shape. Now, I may not like the fact that they are still toll roads, but I honestly don't have a problem with their condition.
Speed limits: are you really going to argue speed limits in a state with separate night-time regulations? Also, you can post whatever speed limit you like on your Houston/DFW/Austin highways, but you're generally not going anywhere near that speed during the daily commute. In D/FW you're lucky to move above a crawl half the time due to the never-ending construction and wrecks. Hell a single wreck on I-45 in H-town backs everything up for 15 miles on either side and turns a 15-minute drive into an 1+hr drag.

Also, you need to work on your reading comprehension. I never said OK was the same as TX, I said they shared some very similar geographic qualities. Every state has it's pros and cons, TX is no different in that regard than anywhere else. It's just larger than most of the other US states, which you can take credit for. Congrats on being the 2nd largest US state!
 
Aw crap. The reality is one learns to live and drive in winter or they wimp out and move to places they think are better. Once there, the reality sinks in. They are either surrounded by the elderly who should no longer be driving (witnessed that in Bradenton, FL) or are called "Damned Yankees" by the locals. I ran into that attitude in Midland, TX in the eighties.

I have nothing against Southerners except those who refuse to admit they lost our civil war. I believe the "Stars and Bars" are part of our history and take exception with those who want to rewrite history. Life depends on one's outlook. I suggest that no matter where we live in America we are all brothers and sisters. Let's hear it in support ot the country we love.

I admit this post is somewhat political in nature but was not intended to be so. Mods, you may delete if you wish. My intent was support of the country I was born in just when WWII was getting started. I was then, but only a baby in arms at the time, still loyal to America and all she stands for.
 
Remind me again why I still live in Michigan...

Because you didn't move to Texas in 1978 like the rest of the people in Michigan did..?? :lol::lol:
 
Zeldman,

I was just thinking that an hour ago when I had to clean my car before going to the grocery store. Hadn't been out in three days but given that TAW has to commute on I-75 for several miles I'm sure he did not have the option of staying home.

Duty calls, and the cops have to live with that come hell or nasty weather. My deputy friends wish for a 'snow day' but that is not in their job description. TAW has to put up with the same. Rain, snow, heat or cold they have a job to do. Old Normie appreciates them for their dedication. My deputy friends are the best.
 
Norman said:
Zeldman,

I was just thinking that an hour ago when I had to clean my car before going to the grocery store. Hadn't been out in three days but given that TAW has to commute on I-75 for several miles I'm sure he did not have the option of staying home.

Duty calls, and the cops have to live with that come hell or nasty weather. My deputy friends wish for a 'snow day' but that is not in their job description. TAW has to put up with the same. Rain, snow, heat or cold they have a job to do. Old Normie appreciates them for their dedication. My deputy friends are the best.
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Snow on the roadway doesn't bother me in the least...its those pesky other drivers though LOL. Fortunately, my work car is 4wd, which helps.
And don't get me going on that I75...ugh.
 
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tawood said:
Snow on the roadway doesn't bother me in the least...its those pesky other drivers though LOL. Fortunately, my work car is 4wd, which helps.
And don't get me going on that I75...ugh.
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Yep, those other drivers can (and eventually will) kill you. :yikes:

Don't get me started on I-75... luckily I lived in the eastern suburbs so my commute was along I-94. But to get to the airport after work, the only two choices were I-75 or Woodward Ave. Guess which one I took most of the time? ;)
 
I have, for all practical purposes. abandoned driving the freeways south of Bay City. Too many squirrels on the road, and I'm not referring to the four-legged kind. Those of you who are old enough to recall Stan Midgley will remember what he said about not seeing anything except tail lights while speeding along at 70. Back roads are much more interesting.

The wife and I were on the Gold Wing several years ago when I saw a huge cloud of smoke ahead. Long story short it was two guys firing up an old steam tractor. We were not in any hurry so we stopped, watched, and chatted with them. You are not likely to see that while driving the superslabs. OTOH, I could not imagine the congestion on local roads were the freeways not here today.

I guess my age is showing. While I appreciate today, in some ways life was simpler when I was young. I was raised in what then was considered a rural area. I'm not fond of living in what now is unofficially a city.

Oh, and may I add that we Michiganders live in the largest source of fresh water in the world. California keeps begging for some but they are unlikely to get it no matter how much they are willing to pay.
 
Norman said:
Oh, and may I add that we Michiganders live in the largest source of fresh water in the world. California keeps begging for some but they are unlikely to get it no matter how much they are willing to pay.
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C'mon Norman, share! They need the water for their fruits and nuts! :popcorn:

see what I did thar :)
 
Norman said:
Oh, and may I add that we Michiganders live in the largest source of fresh water in the world. California keeps begging for some but they are unlikely to get it no matter how much they are willing to pay.
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Every summer when we go to Elk Lake, we drink lots of your water. Mwahahaha.

(and Founders also appears to be shipping out as much water to California as they can in small 12 oz packages!)

-Sam
A fan of All Day IPA
 
Norman said:
I have, for all practical purposes. abandoned driving the freeways south of Bay City. Too many squirrels on the road, and I'm not referring to the four-legged kind. Those of you who are old enough to recall Stan Midgley will remember what he said about not seeing anything except tail lights while speeding along at 70. Back roads are much more interesting.

The wife and I were on the Gold Wing several years ago when I saw a huge cloud of smoke ahead. Long story short it was two guys firing up an old steam tractor. We were not in any hurry so we stopped, watched, and chatted with them. You are not likely to see that while driving the superslabs. OTOH, I could not imagine the congestion on local roads were the freeways not here today.

I guess my age is showing. While I appreciate today, in some ways life was simpler when I was young. I was raised in what then was considered a rural area. I'm not fond of living in what now is unofficially a city.

Oh, and may I add that we Michiganders live in the largest source of fresh water in the world. California keeps begging for some but they are unlikely to get it no matter how much they are willing to pay.
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We love getting of the interstates and getting on the old highways and side roads as well if our schedule allows it. Surprisingly it usually does as the added time is not too bad in most cases. Of course, if we stop to look at everything that looks interesting, it can really make the trip longer. But definitely more interesting. I’m just glad that most other people stick to the interstate when I’m off of it.
 
Norman said:
I have, for all practical purposes. abandoned driving the freeways south of Bay City. Too many squirrels on the road, and I'm not referring to the four-legged kind. Those of you who are old enough to recall Stan Midgley will remember what he said about not seeing anything except tail lights while speeding along at 70. Back roads are much more interesting.

The wife and I were on the Gold Wing several years ago when I saw a huge cloud of smoke ahead. Long story short it was two guys firing up an old steam tractor. We were not in any hurry so we stopped, watched, and chatted with them. You are not likely to see that while driving the superslabs. OTOH, I could not imagine the congestion on local roads were the freeways not here today.

I guess my age is showing. While I appreciate today, in some ways life was simpler when I was young. I was raised in what then was considered a rural area. I'm not fond of living in what now is unofficially a city.

Oh, and may I add that we Michiganders live in the largest source of fresh water in the world. California keeps begging for some but they are unlikely to get it no matter how much they are willing to pay.
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My dad was a back road traveler. So I got to see a lot of out of sight back country places in Texas in the 60s. He believed interstates were for military use.

Now I am the same way. Back roads are usually shorter than interstate travel and the time is usually not that much of a difference, except for stopping at interesting places.

One time in Texas I came up on an old tractor show. There were half a dozen or so steam tractors running, and some of the drivers looked as if they bought that steam tractor brand new.

I have made a few trips to Alaska and back using back roads as much as I could. Except in Canada. The regular roads going through British Columbia and Yukon are interesting by themselves. And back roads in New Mexico can be an adventure by themselves.
 
Zeldman said:
My dad was a back road traveler. So I got to see a lot of out of sight back country places in Texas in the 60s. He believed interstates were for military use.

Now I am the same way. Back roads are usually shorter than interstate travel and the time is usually not that much of a difference, except for stopping at interesting places.
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It depends on the state probably, and on where you're coming from and going to. In Vermont, if the interstate is close to your route, it's usually MUCH faster to take it than the back roads. That's partly because the back roads are usually congested with slowpokes going 10-15 mph under the speed limit, but it's also the speed limit itself, which is 65 on the interstate but (with rare exceptions) never more than 50 on other highways.

Of course, there are only two interstates in Vermont (I-89 and I-91 - technically the only ones, though US-7 is limited access through much of southwestern VT), so chances are, there won't be a good interstate route to where you're going. You'll definitely see more on the byways, and VT has some awesome ones that put anything labeled a "scenic route" in Michigan to shame. But you won't get where you're going anytime soon. That may actually be a good thing... or not.
 
Got to visit the Rutland and Dorset area in 2008.Did not find the highways crowded or slow moving.
 
"Speed limits: are you really going to argue speed limits in a state with separate night-time regulations?"

Yep, sure will. Visit more often maybe?
Texas Day/Night speed limits were eliminated in 2011.

One of the biggest reasons for the plugged rush hour traffic in DFW, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio is the massive influx of humanity that has outrun the infrastructure. Must be something here somebody wants a piece of? There are transportation solutions in progress, and in the works. Hopefully, if they can sort things out, the DFW to Houston bullet train project will happen, and if all goes well, maybe another from San Antonio Austin DFW.

Indian Casinos. Chock full of people who are payin the freight, livin the dream, and don't have 2 welfare nickels left to rub together. Sad way for a state to generate revenue.

One thing that might be worthy of mention next time out, and something most people don't realize. Tulsa has it's own inland international seaport.
 
Norman said:
Got to visit the Rutland and Dorset area in 2008.Did not find the highways crowded or slow moving.
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Things may have changed... or perhaps you were traveling mainly along US-7? If so, come out and try US-2 between Williston and Montpelier, or VT-12 between Montpelier and Randolph. Traffic doesn't even have to be heavy along those roads - all it takes is one slow mover, and along those highways slow is the rule rather than the exception (and I'm not talking about farm or construction machinery either, just everyday drivers in Subarus).
 
Art Rose said:
"Speed limits: are you really going to argue speed limits in a state with separate night-time regulations?"

Yep, sure will. Visit more often maybe?
Texas Day/Night speed limits were eliminated in 2011.

One of the biggest reasons for the plugged rush hour traffic in DFW, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio is the massive influx of humanity that has outrun the infrastructure.
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"Outrun the infrastructure" is another cause of traffic congestion in parts of Vermont - especially in Burlington and Montpelier, where the population is denser than it was when the roads were built, and adding more lanes is physically impossible without forcing businesses and residents to move. It's ironic in a state with as low a population density as VT, but that population has soared in the few urban areas and things are only going to get worse.
 
Art Rose said:
"Speed limits: are you really going to argue speed limits in a state with separate night-time regulations?"

Yep, sure will. Visit more often maybe?
Texas Day/Night speed limits were eliminated in 2011.

One of the biggest reasons for the plugged rush hour traffic in DFW, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio is the massive influx of humanity that has outrun the infrastructure. Must be something here somebody wants a piece of? There are transportation solutions in progress, and in the works. Hopefully, if they can sort things out, the DFW to Houston bullet train project will happen, and if all goes well, maybe another from San Antonio Austin DFW.

Indian Casinos. Chock full of people who are payin the freight, livin the dream, and don't have 2 welfare nickels left to rub together. Sad way for a state to generate revenue.

One thing that might be worthy of mention next time out, and something most people don't realize. Tulsa has it's own inland international seaport.
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^ This guy, lol. What a maroon. Just keeps yammering on about how great he thinks Texas is when the original subject was that they shared similar geographical traits. Enjoy your traffic and bullet train.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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azure said:
It's ironic in a state with as low a population density as VT, but that population has soared in the few urban areas and things are only going to get worse.
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That's a pretty much universal problem. Growth tends to cluster in few places and often exceeds the capacity of local infrastructure while there are other parts of the state or county that have excess capacity.
 
weilke said:
That's a pretty much universal problem. Growth tends to cluster in few places and often exceeds the capacity of local infrastructure while there are other parts of the state or county that have excess capacity.
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It is, but if anything the problem is worse here than in many other areas because the infrastructure was designed way back when growth on the scale we have seen in the past two to three decades was not even imaginable. We have two-lane highways going through cities, lined almost to the shoulder with homes and businesses and thus no possibility of being widened. In the case of US-2 through Montpelier, that two-laner is the only east-west route through this part of the state, so it sees heavy traffic at all hours. Come rush hour, it's absolute gridlock, just as bad as in true urban population centers like Detroit and its suburbs.

Things are very much like this in Burlington too. And even Burlington, largest city in Vermont, is small, <50,000 total population. But the surrounding towns bring the metropolitan area to something like 200,000 - way too many people for the infrastructure to handle.
 
SoonerAviator said:
^ This guy, lol. What a maroon. Just keeps yammering on about how great he thinks Texas is when the original subject was that they shared similar geographical traits. Enjoy your traffic and bullet train.


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FWIW, not all of us Texas residents share that guy's defensive stance about comparing the two states. Like everything else, there's good and bad about this state. I also do not give credence to that True Scotsman fallacy of who is and who isn't qualified to speak about the place.
 
Art Rose said:
Indian Casinos. Chock full of people who are payin the freight, livin the dream, and don't have 2 welfare nickels left to rub together. Sad way for a state to generate revenue.
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Voluntary contributions are the best way to raise money.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Voluntary contributions are the best way to raise money.
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Go-Fund baby!

Case in point, dump hotel on an I-65 exit near here caught fire last night (good riddance). Owners of adjoining restaurant almost immediately started a Go-Fund. Shoot, I had a weather cancellation today, think I'll start one.
 
hindsight2020 said:
FWIW, not all of us Texas residents share that guy's defensive stance about comparing the two states. Like everything else, there's good and bad about this state. I also do not give credence to that True Scotsman fallacy of who is and who isn't qualified to speak about the place.
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Oh I know. I have dozens of close friends who are Texans, and another hundred or more Texas work friends/acquaintances. Most are great people who have a lot of state pride, but don’t go around acting like Texas is the end-all-be-all. Most of the bad in the state of Texas exists within Austin city limits.


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SoonerAviator said:
Oh I know. I have dozens of close friends who are Texans, and another hundred or more Texas work friends/acquaintances. Most are great people who have a lot of state pride, but don’t go around acting like Texas is the end-all-be-all. Most of the bad in the state of Texas exists within Austin city limits.


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Interesting. Austin is the only city in Tx I would even consider living in.
 
RalphInCA said:
Interesting. Austin is the only city in Tx I would even consider living in.
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Lol, it's more of a dig at a certain college university that resides there than the city of Austin itself. Although Austin does have its peculiarities compared to the rest of Texas.
 
RalphInCA said:
Interesting. Austin is the only city in Tx I would even consider living in.
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Why? It has changed.

Austin has been taken over by the liberals. I served some time at Bergstom in the early sixties. Back then Austin was a cool town. Can't say that now that the liberals have invaded.

God bless Texas as I knew it back then.

There was a hurricane that brought the true spirit of Texans that warmed my heart. Watching the videos of those helping others and Jay Honeck's post revealed much about the spirit of not oly
Texans but those of Americans when it regards human life. I read reports and watched lots of videos from the Houston area. The one thing that came across was that there are many caring people out there who are willing to put themselves in danger to help someone who truly is.

They were under no obligation to do so but did. IMO, those people are true American heroes.
 
Norman said:
I served some time at Bergstom in the early sixties. .
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What was on the flight line then Norm? Last time I went through Bergstrom they had RF-4Cs. Actually was TDY there for a conference once and rented a C172 from Eglin Aero Club and flew to Bergstrom. Transportation would reimburse cost up to what an airline ticket would have cost.
 
mscard88 said:
What was on the flight line then Norm? Last time I went through Bergstrom they had RF-4Cs. Actually was TDY there for a conference once and rented a C172 from Eglin Aero Club and flew to Bergstrom. Transportation would reimburse cost up to what an airline ticket would have cost.
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A squadron of armed B-52's. BAFB was a SAC base back then. Unauthorized personnel did not dare go near the ready area. Sometimes we had entertainment when a few F-100's would either land or make a pass. That was 1960 or so.
 
Sam D said:
(and Founders also appears to be shipping out as much water to California as they can in small 12 oz packages!)

-Sam
A fan of All Day IPA
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Yeah, pretty damn good for 4.7% !
Allows me to keep my daily count up and still get other things done.:)
 
Hey! We Michiganders treasure the ponds that surround us cause they keep the aquifers filled.

In the name of profits, and with the blessing of state government much of our water is taken from the aquifers and sold elsewhere. You in California who want water please head toward Colorado and hope for heavy snowfall in winter.

On second thought,don't move; Denver has already been infiltrated by too many liberals as has the once great city of Austin,TX. Chicago and Detroit should be so lucky to have people wanting to move there but it's not likely to happen.

You picked where you wanted to live. I don't think it right you should be demanding water from the Great Lakes. Those puddles are ours. Fend for yourselves. Drink less. I'm not willing to share with those who move to desert country and demand we send them what the pioneers described as "cool, clear".

Californians got plenty of water last winter. They let most of run to the sea. Not good management IMO.

Some seem to want all the benefits and aren't willing to do anything to support them.

Off my rant. Yeah, I took my grump pill this morning. :D
 
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