Hi Everyone. I was thinking to purchase a "project" of a plane, an old Piper around 30k and overhaul the engine, modernize the avionics, repaint it, change the interior etc. until she looks smart and sexy again Anyone know anyone in Los Angeles area that can help with that? Thanks
$30k project plane $15-22k for the engine overhaul $14-$$$K for the avionics modernization $15k for a paint job 5-10k interior upgrade You sure you want to go this route?
That would be a around and no more than 85k for a beautiful and modern bird. I haven't found any at this price in the market. So yes, I'll probably go for it.
Godspeed my friend. I’m in your corner because I’ve owned my 140 for almost 8 years and besides the engine overhaul and paint, I’ve done the same thing. I just installed 4 new cylinders, a carb, power flow exhaust and a new set of baffles on mine. I’m still upgrading but with the exception of an autopilot, I think I’m about finished.
@Timbeck2 's numbers are conservative. Engine shops are sold out and using price to manage demand, Paint is similar and you want it stripped and fully repainted vs a sand and spray. Avionics could be much higher as well. Effort put into finding one that is the way you ultimately want it will be a far better use of your time. I started where you did when looking for an Archer. I ended up buying one that had all of that done already and never looked back. Only thing I've added is an AP and that was just because the one that it had was having issues and I didn't want to put more $$ into it.
Offer $20K for the airplane. If the engine is runout with older avionics, you'll need lots of $$$. Engine overhauls are running months away, assuming you can get a reservation, and the Lycoming is at least $25K. Might be easier and more cost effective to contact Lycoming and do a swap with $$$.
I know someone that did this to two archers recently. He was in over 120k each by the time they were "beautiful, modern birds".
It can be a labor of love. Just be sure you find an A&P certified mechanic that can help you, teach you and is willing to sign off your work. There are a limited amount of things you can do legally as as aircraft owner. Most things need to be signed off by your mechanic.
When you finish, if you have any money left over I can help you find a 1982 Toyota Corolla to restomod.
As a newly minted pilot, I was also contemplating a similar course of action. Since you're also from LA area would you consider partnering on this endeavor?
You'll put an eye out... ......you will own a plane that you are not going to be flying for awhile. Modern plane? How modern? Easy to sink 40K in the panel that alone. If you intend for this to be your forever plane, I like the factory engine idea too. But if you have the time and money go for it. Why did you choose a 140?
You are wise to recognize what you will be getting into. I see so many people buy a nice airplane thinking they will only do "x" to it, but once they do it, the rest of the plane starts looking average compared to the update. Before they knew it, they wound up doing everything anyway. They would have been better off buying a plane with a runout engine, old paint, old avionics for less $ and spend on the updates. The only thing you should do is find out if your insurance company will pay for all those updates in the event of a loss.
Financials aside, a Cherokee 140 is not a great plane to have in California. It is severely underpowered to get over the mountains, and will struggle to make it to minimum enroute altitudes for IFR flying.
Well it is what I fly........ Financials aside, a Cherokee 140 ...Ive had mine for about ten years now, love it. One reason I bought it at the time was it's value. I really wanted a Tiger but just couldn't afford the buy in price. The 140 is a limited airplane, just a fact.
I have the time for sure. Meanwhile I’m training on another one and yes, it’ll be a forever plane. At least a decade I’d say. The only reason I chose a 140 is because there are plenty out there. But by the time I find my bird, it could be something different. I’m open to something else.
I’m in a similar process right now. I finished my PPL a couple years ago and bought a rough looking high-hour Cherokee 140, but with good “bones.” I also have my A&P certs. So far I’ve gotten the panel back up to steam gauge VFR standing. Intentions are to add a Garmin 430W and an updated audio panel, and either 2 G5s or 2 AV30s. The engine is right at 2k hours but running well. I’m hoping to swap it out with an O360 soon. I bought a complete used interior from TX air salvage. It’s not perfect, but it looks presentable. The paint… I’m currently stripping the wings and repainting with a roller, one small section at a time. It won’t be as perfect as a professional paint shop, but it will look decent and won’t cost a fortune. Right now the paint is so deteriorated on the wings that it’s causing a hit in performance. So my goal is to get it smooth for better airflow and protect the metal (not Interested in maintaining bare aluminum). I considered reserving a slot in a paint barn, but just can’t justify putting a $12k+ paint job on a Cherokee 140. I love the plane, but it just doesn’t make sense. In the end, I should have an airplane worth slightly more than I have in it, albeit very slightly. I am doing all the work myself. If I had to pay someone else to do ANY of the avionics installs or paint, I’d be upside down financially. My next airplane will be an experimental kit.
I used to rent a Cherokee 140 for a while before I got my Turbo Arrow. It was a fun little plane to fly, I liked it despite it being old and decrepit and half the things on the panel didn't work and they were all laid out in the wrong order anyway. In fact, after I sold the TA and got in to a partnership with an Arrow II, I liked flying it better than the TA because it handled just like the 140.
This kind of thing makes zero financial sense unless you're an A&P yourself (or very mechanically inclined and have an A&P willing to supervise your work). If you're paying an LA-area A&P $100+ per hour to perform all of the tasks to bring a project plane up to speed, I'd at least double the numbers you're being quoted in this thread. At the end of the day, your $30k project PA28-140 will be a 105kt, 2 (maybe 3) passenger airplane that you'll have at least $100k into. You can get a LOT more airplane for $100k if you shop around at little and have some patience.
My thought is that the cost for engine / paint / interior / avionics should be a fix amount (at the end of the day) and not really change if applied to a 180, Arrow,172, or Mooney, etc. I would think that a bit more to get a better starting point would be smart as it will be more capable at the end. Either way, I say godspeed, and good luck on this. Keep us updated w/ pics as you go.
Have you priced things NOW? Maybe a local small shop field overhaul can be done for less than $20K. But more like $30K + Avionics? Hard to do much with $15K (figure install will equal equipment cost) and EASY to spend over $50K and not hard to spend over $100K A good paint job is now more like $20K and up. Interior, my local FBO quoted $12K, and a top shop will run a bit over $20K.
I have a Cherokee 140 and it’s a nice plane but I wouldn’t use it as a base for upgrades. At a minimum you should start with a Cherokee 180 with the bigger engine and rear baggage compartment. Here’s a project plane for you for $40K that would be a better starting point.
I don’t see a 140 even well appointed bringing 125k. But I am the last person to take advice from on aircraft values.
You must be young...L Ive had the same house for 35 years and the same wife for 43.... How long do you see those updates taking?
I did exactly that, but with a Cherokee 180 (which I'd strongly recommend over a 140). I had a great time doing it and got my money back. That said, I did almost all of the labor myself (with an A&P approving my work). I'd think trying to do this hands off would not make financial sense. And doing the labor if you don't like wrenching would be torture. But if you do, it would be a blast. I also did a minor version with a Comanche and am doing it again now with a Seneca 3 I bought in an auction. It's not for everybody, it's somewhat like building an EAB. My final $0.02, it's a lot more fun if it's a flying project than if it's not. I'd recommend getting something that's flying and work from there.
Right. It's real easy to take a $40K airplane and spend another $40K on it and end up with a $55K airplane. You'll almost never get your money back, especially when avionics are obsolete so quickly now. You don't see shops buying old airplanes and refurbishing them and making money. It's mostly guys who make it a hobby, and plan to keep the airplane a long time.
Haha.. A decade today is like forever But I’m keeping my wife forever and more than a decade for sure
Off topic, but I'm realizing that I've heard people say "first wife", but never heard anyone use the phrase "starter wife". Huh. ok, continue on with the Cherokee thing....
I have heard of the saying, “if you want to fly, fly. If you want to build, build.” I think we found a third way: “if you wanna restore, restore.”
